Boost controllers and a new one coming from BR
dave you know how to get controversy going, you finnally learned to use it to your advantage for you and your company, but in doing so you turned in the person that you hated, and *****ed about for so many years..
you did hold out longer than others.
you did hold out longer than others.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 64
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From: Philly (Bucks Cty.)
this whole thread is hilarious....
Your attention please...Buschur has not "ripped-off" anyone!
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
i am going to have to be on buschur side on this one. in this unfair world that we live in this kind of thing is normal. in my eyes, i believe he has made a fair attempt to buy direct but it was refused. if my business was as established in the dsm world as buschurs, i to would most likely not accept buying from a wholesaler, especially an american made product.
in the end, no matter how you look at it buschur will probably end up selling more of these to the evo community than perrin. as ****tey as it sounds and all this crap talking about this thread just changed someone's mind about not buying from him, buschur will still dominate the dsm world along with ams and such.
i am really into buying upgrades for my car and that is why i am here on this forum. to learn about what products can do what and to show off a little. and from the business that i have had with buschur and from all the people that have done business with him, i have only heard how much he stands behind his product and how his products have worked very well. so to me and i am sure to most, as long as the products works well, last long and the company stands behind it 110%, i and the thousands of others are going to still buy it from that company.
in the end, no matter how you look at it buschur will probably end up selling more of these to the evo community than perrin. as ****tey as it sounds and all this crap talking about this thread just changed someone's mind about not buying from him, buschur will still dominate the dsm world along with ams and such.
i am really into buying upgrades for my car and that is why i am here on this forum. to learn about what products can do what and to show off a little. and from the business that i have had with buschur and from all the people that have done business with him, i have only heard how much he stands behind his product and how his products have worked very well. so to me and i am sure to most, as long as the products works well, last long and the company stands behind it 110%, i and the thousands of others are going to still buy it from that company.
Your attention please...Buschur has not "ripped-off" anyone!
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
+1 Finally... an intelligent response.
I have been reading this all day... it made work go by a whole lot faster.
Your attention please...Buschur has not "ripped-off" anyone!
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
Here's how it works in the real world, guys.
If you have an idea and you want to protect it, you go out and GET A PATENT! This requires some effort and cost. In particular, you need to demonstrate that your idea is NOVEL and NOT OBVIOUS. (Yes, i know these terms are vague...call it the full-employment act for patent attorneys. Yes, I also know that the patent system has warts, and is in some senses unfair, but it's the system within which we all work).
If someone starts building a product that infringes your patent, you can take legal action against them. One of the favored methods that people in the semiconductor business (where I work) do is to get the International Trade Commission to rule on it, and then the infringing products can be stopped at the border when they come in.
If you don't have a patent, then anyone is free to copy what you do. Copying is not unethical. In fact, if the idea is better than the one that you are producing, you would be a fool not to copy it to avoid losing business.
Another way to protect yourself without patents is to keep moving, and come out with new stuff, while the copiers are still working on knocking-off your old stuff.
Last thoughts of the day before I go ride my dirt bike tomorrow.
It looks like we where right in not selling directly to them, they WHERE going to rip it off. Yes, I to read that they where going to be reselling ours. But we will never know, now will we, they might have been planning to rip it off all along.
"Bad business decision on our part"? I think we will be just fine without BR's little one'sie, two'sie boost controller sales. AND one of our distributors must have got at least ONE extra boost controller sale.
We DO NOT care that BR now has an inline boost controller. Good for them, welcome to the party. What got our attention was that they blatantly said that they are going to copy our design.(period)
I guess even the mighty Dave B. thinks our products are pretty good, we must be doing something right.
If they would have just introduced their new multi stage manual boost control system we would have never responded to the post, it sounds like a great idea and will "probably" be a good product.
And lastly, if they would have just called us to discuss the matter all this would have been a mute issue. I guess hot heads will always be hot heads, not every one is out to **** you off.
Out, and good night!
It looks like we where right in not selling directly to them, they WHERE going to rip it off. Yes, I to read that they where going to be reselling ours. But we will never know, now will we, they might have been planning to rip it off all along.
"Bad business decision on our part"? I think we will be just fine without BR's little one'sie, two'sie boost controller sales. AND one of our distributors must have got at least ONE extra boost controller sale.
We DO NOT care that BR now has an inline boost controller. Good for them, welcome to the party. What got our attention was that they blatantly said that they are going to copy our design.(period)
I guess even the mighty Dave B. thinks our products are pretty good, we must be doing something right.
If they would have just introduced their new multi stage manual boost control system we would have never responded to the post, it sounds like a great idea and will "probably" be a good product.
And lastly, if they would have just called us to discuss the matter all this would have been a mute issue. I guess hot heads will always be hot heads, not every one is out to **** you off.
Out, and good night!
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
WOW just wow. David you have seriously sunk to the depths of a desperate man.
I won't get into the first part of your post with the ball and spring madness. You have managed to get everyone in this forum thinking you are some sort of a legend. BUT so that we do not have a war in this thread I will say a couple of things and thats it.
You have ranted and raved about chinese products and imitations since business and sales declined two years ago. You sir are a hipocrit. In the same post on page one you mention you are a reseller for Turbo XS. Do you know where turbo XS products are MADE? You don't do you.... I will leave it at that until you actually figure out that you have been selling chinese made "so called crap" for years. BUT its ok when an "american" company rips off another company.
Truelly come up with your own controller and then make a thread about "boost controllers" and the like. THEN some of your "story" would make sense and actually deserve respect. But for you it seems that ANY publicity is good for DB INC
I won't get into the first part of your post with the ball and spring madness. You have managed to get everyone in this forum thinking you are some sort of a legend. BUT so that we do not have a war in this thread I will say a couple of things and thats it.
You have ranted and raved about chinese products and imitations since business and sales declined two years ago. You sir are a hipocrit. In the same post on page one you mention you are a reseller for Turbo XS. Do you know where turbo XS products are MADE? You don't do you.... I will leave it at that until you actually figure out that you have been selling chinese made "so called crap" for years. BUT its ok when an "american" company rips off another company.
Truelly come up with your own controller and then make a thread about "boost controllers" and the like. THEN some of your "story" would make sense and actually deserve respect. But for you it seems that ANY publicity is good for DB INC
Last edited by Planet Evo; Jun 23, 2007 at 07:00 AM.
I think too many people have their panties in a wad over this. Dave did not just "Copy" a boost controller. He saw a good idea and made it better. That's called free enterprise. He didn't violate any patent laws.
As for the "Chinese" knock-offs, that's exactly what they are. Items that are made to look exactly like the original but made with lesser materials. I highly doubt that Dave would have gone through the trouble of all this just to make a MBC that was lesser quality than the Perrin unit.
Only thing I see Dave being guilty of is being an ***. But hey, 95% of the people on this board are so why ***** at him?
As for the "Chinese" knock-offs, that's exactly what they are. Items that are made to look exactly like the original but made with lesser materials. I highly doubt that Dave would have gone through the trouble of all this just to make a MBC that was lesser quality than the Perrin unit.
Only thing I see Dave being guilty of is being an ***. But hey, 95% of the people on this board are so why ***** at him?
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
If the Perrin unit wasn't all its cracked up to be, he would not have gone thru the trouble to "by it secretly" and copy the design platform. Obviously he couldn't just engineer something better than the "chinese made" unit he was allready using.
He opened this can of worms, not "all the people with their panties in a wad"
He opened this can of worms, not "all the people with their panties in a wad"
From my perspective, it's not the fact that DB decides to focus on and develop improvements to a common accessory that raised hackles. It was the rather blatant and lengthy description of how and why he started with someone else's design, after years of complaining that other people were stealing his inventions that made people unhappy. Dave seems now to recognize that his announcement would have been better received, and his competitors would have been less frustrated, if he had just focused on his realization that some improvements were possible to what was available in the market, and he was filling them with a new and improved product.
Since many items are NOT capable of patent protection, or the process is not worth the cost based on the market size you're trying to protect, it would be nice if in niche markets, like Evo aftermarket parts, shops worked on the honor system. Perrin knows that it either could not or could not afford to protect its boost controller with patent protection. Magnus intake manifolds have been copied by countless competitors, small and large, domestic and international. There was a day that the honor system did work somewhat that way, in the early days -- for example, Todd Day's TMO chip was protected by the "honor" system for quite some time, but that day has come and gone with the huge expansion of the sport compact market in general. Improvements to an existing concept are always fair game, and benefit the market. Direct blatant (and usually inferior) copying to make a quick buck is what gets me heated.
Dave, the proof reader idea is a good one. I respect you, your innovation, your dedication to things 4g63, and the quality of the Buschur products I've owned over the years. I just wish you'd not cause yourself unnecessary grief from time to time at the computer keyboard.
Since many items are NOT capable of patent protection, or the process is not worth the cost based on the market size you're trying to protect, it would be nice if in niche markets, like Evo aftermarket parts, shops worked on the honor system. Perrin knows that it either could not or could not afford to protect its boost controller with patent protection. Magnus intake manifolds have been copied by countless competitors, small and large, domestic and international. There was a day that the honor system did work somewhat that way, in the early days -- for example, Todd Day's TMO chip was protected by the "honor" system for quite some time, but that day has come and gone with the huge expansion of the sport compact market in general. Improvements to an existing concept are always fair game, and benefit the market. Direct blatant (and usually inferior) copying to make a quick buck is what gets me heated.
Dave, the proof reader idea is a good one.
I respect you, your innovation, your dedication to things 4g63, and the quality of the Buschur products I've owned over the years. I just wish you'd not cause yourself unnecessary grief from time to time at the computer keyboard.