Thank you Al for the professional response. I trust your knowledge. I know you were one of the original, if not The Original Evo Tuner! I really did not know the answer, and was just curious.

 

The facts are that there are a number of reasons which can cause engine failure on meth. Other FACTS are that the ZEITRONIX safeguard system addresses 95% of them. It is all too coincidental that an engine goes just 2 days after custom tuning.

It very well could be that the SMC pump lost pressure or the system was run dry.

Both conditions would have been covered by the zeitronix.

I will tell you a little story about SMC injection systems. I have a customer making waves in the autocross arena, taking fastest car of the day honors on top of just his class. He had been boasting that he was using SMC meth injection and 26psi as he was winning all these races. he came in for a custom tune. Apparently he has been tuned by another Evom tuner. Recently he moved to the Evogreen. I ask him the important details about whose meth kit, what size jet, what pressure it runs and how much he is using. He stated that he hasnt used much fluid from his tank in months.

I met with him to custom tune the car and first thing I do is get the tune ironed out on pumpgas. Next I turn on the meth and press the test button to see if AFR's drop. In his car the test button would not change anything. I held the button down and still nothing. I disconnect the injector from the intake pipe and the meth line to the sprayer nozzle is bone dry. It is obvious the meth pump has not been working in a long time. Yes another dead SMC pump.

It is easy to see how easy a motor can go under these circumstances. Not only is the meth not spraying, but also the tuner has advanced the ignition timing a lot for the higher octane fueling so it is a double threat on the engine. Luckily his engine stayed together, but he would have known there was a problem months ago if he was using the zeitronix wideband and safeguard system.

 

I'm sure he might've got some gas on base and ended up with a crap batch. This is why I suggest to EVERYONE to use only 76 or Shell out here.

I actually did some logging using some of the different gas out here. Shell came out on top followed by 76. I was consistently seeing more knock with base/Tesoro/Aloha gas (never used Chevron, but have heard it's worse than all). BTW... I don't have those logs anymore so please don't ask for them. My comp crashed and I lost everything.

My best guess though is that there was a problem prior to the tune/installation of alky and the extra boost amplified it. We'll find out once we get that head pulled I guess.

 

I agree.

 

It is my pleasure

I am paying attention to this thread and topic as it is a subject that I have been spending a lot of time talking with various tuners about for some time

I am reaching the age where I am starting to have a more reasoned thought process on what a customer who daily drives his car as regular transportation should expect from his car power wise

My feeling lately has been that a lot of members of the Evo community who have UNREASOANBLE expectations as to what kind of power they can safely expect with a given level of modifications

I have seen a lot of dyno sheets and claims with very agressive boost levels and tuning and a huge fixation and focus on the power number

Let me say that you don't drive a dyno sheet and IF I were a normal person who was using my car as a form of daily transportation I would place a great attention to the reliability and long term life span of my engine than in the peak power on a dyno.

Sadly, it seems that many customers are fixated on dyno numbers and who can make the most power with the least modifications.

My suggestion for anyone who needs their car for basic transportation and wants it to last for a few years is run your car with a bit less boost and a bit less agressive than the ragged edge. This is not to say have a "weak" tune - but rather to say to leave 10% of the maximum power available off the table as a healthy margin of saftey.

I am sure that if this OP's motor has not grenaded he would have been all over the internet boasting about his huge power production and how great his set up was. Honestly, 400 dyno jet whp is a LOT of power to be pushing on HI pump gas and the result does not suprize me.

There are many customers who have 3 or 4 cars and for whom the Evo is a weekend or track car - those guys are the ones who should be pushing really high power goals as they are the ones who can do without the car for a few weeks while its getting re-built.

In the end, I feel that customers should give more consideration to what is a MAX power level and what is a SAFE power level for pump gas driving.

 

As I am tuning cars daily and watching knock - I know what kind of a.f , timing and boost to expect on a given set up. Often we remove the gas right on the dyno and pour in normal pump gas from a reliable soucrce and then see any knock go completely away.

Customers need to realize that

# 1 - Gas quality varies greatly and you have no idea what you are pumping into your car unless you have a octane testing machine to test it

# 2 - All tunes for pump gas must have a significant margin of saftey IN THE TUNE to allow the car to survive a bad tank of gas.

# 3 - Cars running a very high boost level will not have a lot of tolerance for bad fuel.

Just as people who ride motor bikes should think about the reality that accidents can and will happen - people who run very high boost levels on pump gas need to think about what they will do of the engine lets loose. Anyone running those kinds of boost levels needs at the bear minimum a knock box on the dash to give a visual aide to help warn when extreme knocking is going on.

Al

 

The thread is getting polluted!
OP, how's the engine looking like? We are interested about what's really the cause?

 

i think it's going to be a few days before he can get to it.

 

I think Al's reasoned age came after messing with my car...

And to whoever said conservative timing, Blocking an entire mid section of a tune to 8* of timing is neither conservative nor tuning. And please dont let me get into MIVEC adjustments.

 

wow...a lot has opened over night and today...gotta catch up.

ok so let me clear some things up a bit....
-i have yet to get into the motor and figure out what exactly went wrong that dreadful night going home,
-here in Hawaii, we have 92 octane.....not 93 or 91 ....and then he have a 100
-no Tony, i did not use gas on base as i know that Aloha, Tesoro, Texaco, Cosmic, etc. have sh*tty gas.....i only use Shell good sh*t
-the motor "went" before i hit full boost at approx 1.5bar ~ 21psi.
-it was in 4th gear rolling around 40mph (3100-3200 rpm)


SOOO, because im anxious to see for myself what went wrong and to see the damages, i will start my tear down today...might be a little slow cuz i dont have a cherry picker (engine hoist) and an engine dolley. so bear with me on this tear down.

ill be taking pics for reference and also for you folks to help me figure out this shiznizzles as to why this had happened.

ill be back........later

 

Let me know if you need help. Where are you doing this at?

You should test your alky kit... that might be the problem.

 

im doing this at mi casa...ill start as soon as i get all my tools together

 

Wrong again my reasoned age came with daily experience tuning Evos since they came out, traveling all over the USA tuning them on varying fuels with just about any combination of mods you can imagine and doing mail in and email tuning for customers all over the world. I have hundreds of verified independant dyno and track results to verify and support the work I am doing and dozens of customers over 100,000 miles with my tuning with no incidents. In this business there is no substitute for hands on experience and going through the process of actually tuning cars in the field. As much complaining as you can dream up at least you can not say your pistons went through the side of your block with my tune.

 

good luck bro

 

Dont try to say that wasnt a direct stab at AMS