JUN 272 or GSC S2
Mar 7, 2008, 05:50 PM
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JUN 272 or GSC S2
Ive been researching cams alot latley, searching through alot of old threads and finding some good info scattered around.
Im trying to make an informed choice on my cam upgrade for my 35r 2L setup. I want to swap out my HKS 272's for something that can really push the limits of the turbocharger.
Im running an early evo, so this puts some cams out of the running from the start Buschur BF and Tomei for example. Ive narrowed my choices down to JUN 272 or GSC S2's, but i will still consider other options.
The JUNS have big duration at .50 but moderate lift, the GSC's have slightly bigger lift but i am not sure on the effective duration. Does anyone know the effective duration on the GSC's?
I have the appropriate dual springs and ti retainers allready in the head.
Ive been told by Ted B the JUN may be a good option for a stock head and the S2 for a ported head, im pretty sure both will work well in a ported head though. Will there be much difference between the two, from what ive heard they are both great cams. Any info or opinions welcome
HKS 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 214 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
JUN 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 235 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 115 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
GSC S2
Intake 274 Duration 11mm peak lift, 107 degree Centerline
Exhaust 274 Duration 11mm Peak Lift, 113 degree Centerline
effective duration???
mods;
Built 2L
ported head
dual springs
ti retainers
standard valves
HKS 272s
GT35r 0.82
custom exhaust manifold
custom intake manifold
ect.
Im trying to make an informed choice on my cam upgrade for my 35r 2L setup. I want to swap out my HKS 272's for something that can really push the limits of the turbocharger.
Im running an early evo, so this puts some cams out of the running from the start Buschur BF and Tomei for example. Ive narrowed my choices down to JUN 272 or GSC S2's, but i will still consider other options.
The JUNS have big duration at .50 but moderate lift, the GSC's have slightly bigger lift but i am not sure on the effective duration. Does anyone know the effective duration on the GSC's?
I have the appropriate dual springs and ti retainers allready in the head.
Ive been told by Ted B the JUN may be a good option for a stock head and the S2 for a ported head, im pretty sure both will work well in a ported head though. Will there be much difference between the two, from what ive heard they are both great cams. Any info or opinions welcome
HKS 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 214 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
JUN 272
Advertised Duration - 272 deg
Effective Duration - 235 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 115 deg Exh
LSA - 112.5 deg
GSC S2
Intake 274 Duration 11mm peak lift, 107 degree Centerline
Exhaust 274 Duration 11mm Peak Lift, 113 degree Centerline
effective duration???
mods;
Built 2L
ported head
dual springs
ti retainers
standard valves
HKS 272s
GT35r 0.82
custom exhaust manifold
custom intake manifold
ect.
Mar 7, 2008, 06:25 PM
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Mar 7, 2008, 06:38 PM
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This put me on a rampage to try some new ideas and some new camshafts. I ordered in some cams to test and some other things.
The outcome of the cam testing was very impressive as we found a lot of extra power. My car instantly went to 542 whp and ran out of fuel pump and injector. The car ran 9.97 at 142.32 mph. After more work we tried something different and put a set of cams in my brothers car and took his from 570'ish whp to 642 whp. We were onto something.
We put together the best of what we could find and had a custom cam ground. We now have these cams to sell and instock at the shop, $575 per set.
There are a LOT of GT30 and GT35 or larger turbo equipped EVO's out there that would greatly benefit from a cam change.
If you already have a cam that you feel is good please ask before ordering if we suggest you swap them out. I won't sell this to you if it isn't going to increase you power like it did ours. A minimum of a 40whp gain has been made on every single GT30 or larger turbo'd EVO we have tested them on.
Actually I will save myself and you guys some hassle. IF you already own Tomei 280's or Jun 272's you do not need to upgrade your cams. Those are two other cams that we have tested on the larger turbo'd cars and have found them to be exceptional.
Thanks for reading,
The outcome of the cam testing was very impressive as we found a lot of extra power. My car instantly went to 542 whp and ran out of fuel pump and injector. The car ran 9.97 at 142.32 mph. After more work we tried something different and put a set of cams in my brothers car and took his from 570'ish whp to 642 whp. We were onto something.
We put together the best of what we could find and had a custom cam ground. We now have these cams to sell and instock at the shop, $575 per set.
There are a LOT of GT30 and GT35 or larger turbo equipped EVO's out there that would greatly benefit from a cam change.
If you already have a cam that you feel is good please ask before ordering if we suggest you swap them out. I won't sell this to you if it isn't going to increase you power like it did ours. A minimum of a 40whp gain has been made on every single GT30 or larger turbo'd EVO we have tested them on.
Actually I will save myself and you guys some hassle. IF you already own Tomei 280's or Jun 272's you do not need to upgrade your cams. Those are two other cams that we have tested on the larger turbo'd cars and have found them to be exceptional.
Thanks for reading,
The outcome of a test between the Juns and these are going to be similar as are the Tomei 280's. We tested a lot of cams after the Revolvers became unavailable and we found which cams worked and which ones didn't. We then played with the ones that worked and how we wanted them degreed.
Really big cams are going to look pretty similar on the cam cards, but like most of you likely already know, the whole truth is not on the cam card. We put these lobes where we like them for our bigger power setups, and the closing ramps keep float out of the picture, now if you already have a set of what I'd call "bigger" cams, you may not pick up much from these, in fact I wouldn't bother. But if you were looking for a big set, these are a great option since they run like the big Tomie and Jun, but without the crazy price tag.
We also have quite a few sets in stock now and shouldn't have a problem with supplying as many as we need.
In the past I have had numerous builds held up from a set of camshafts being on back order or coming through a friend of a friend of a friend who has a cousin in Japan that can get them.
As I already said, I am not going into detail on what we did to get exactly what we wanted. We tested other cams, combined what worked, moved the centerlines around slightly and had a cam ground. They are now affordable and attainable.
Really big cams are going to look pretty similar on the cam cards, but like most of you likely already know, the whole truth is not on the cam card. We put these lobes where we like them for our bigger power setups, and the closing ramps keep float out of the picture, now if you already have a set of what I'd call "bigger" cams, you may not pick up much from these, in fact I wouldn't bother. But if you were looking for a big set, these are a great option since they run like the big Tomie and Jun, but without the crazy price tag.
We also have quite a few sets in stock now and shouldn't have a problem with supplying as many as we need.
In the past I have had numerous builds held up from a set of camshafts being on back order or coming through a friend of a friend of a friend who has a cousin in Japan that can get them.
As I already said, I am not going into detail on what we did to get exactly what we wanted. We tested other cams, combined what worked, moved the centerlines around slightly and had a cam ground. They are now affordable and attainable.
The Revolvers have shorter effective duration than JUN 272, which means that Revolvers are a better match for a smaller turbo setup. However the benefits of the higher lift of the Revolver cams cannot be realized with a stock head.
In short, effective duration (duration at 1mm) is a strong factor in cam selection. Smaller turbo setups aren't well suited to JUN 272, Tomei 280, etc. These cams work best in rpm ranges where a smaller turbo loses its steam. Those who think that bigger cam = bigger power with a small turbo will find this not to be the case. The only thing the bigger cam will do is make low speed power suffer.
For smaller turbo setups, GSCs, JUN 264, and Revolver appear to be the most viable options. Stock head cars need not be overly concerned with anything greater than ~10mm lift, while ported head cars will respond favorably to higher lift in proportion to how competently they are ported. Even so, the higher lift can't make the turbo flow any more air, but it will boost the midrange if one really puts the screws to it with high octane fuel and ample boost pressure.
In short, effective duration (duration at 1mm) is a strong factor in cam selection. Smaller turbo setups aren't well suited to JUN 272, Tomei 280, etc. These cams work best in rpm ranges where a smaller turbo loses its steam. Those who think that bigger cam = bigger power with a small turbo will find this not to be the case. The only thing the bigger cam will do is make low speed power suffer.
For smaller turbo setups, GSCs, JUN 264, and Revolver appear to be the most viable options. Stock head cars need not be overly concerned with anything greater than ~10mm lift, while ported head cars will respond favorably to higher lift in proportion to how competently they are ported. Even so, the higher lift can't make the turbo flow any more air, but it will boost the midrange if one really puts the screws to it with high octane fuel and ample boost pressure.
we tested the following
s1 fp green and gt3076 very good
s2 on a 8mr turbo , very good slight later spool but plenty of torque
s2 on gt3076 Norris designs cars and plenty of gt35r,s the best
s3 hydraulics Norris is gonna test on a gt35r hopefully within a week
s3 solids going in a 1000 bhp car within 3 weeks will keep u guys updated
cheers
s1 fp green and gt3076 very good
s2 on a 8mr turbo , very good slight later spool but plenty of torque
s2 on gt3076 Norris designs cars and plenty of gt35r,s the best
s3 hydraulics Norris is gonna test on a gt35r hopefully within a week
s3 solids going in a 1000 bhp car within 3 weeks will keep u guys updated
cheers
Last edited by JC evo1; Mar 7, 2008 at 07:06 PM.
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Mar 7, 2008, 07:43 PM
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I'm surprised you haven't considered Kelford cams. They're made "next door" to you!
http://www.camshaftshop.com/camshaft...ishi-camshaft/
http://www.camshaftshop.com/camshaft...ishi-camshaft/
Mar 7, 2008, 07:57 PM
#10
Evolving Member
Have you considered any of the grinds from Comp Cams or Forced Performance?
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=DSM-Engine
Mabey an FP2X might be up your alley.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=DSM-Engine
Mabey an FP2X might be up your alley.
Mar 7, 2008, 08:00 PM
#11
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Looks like you can't go wrong either way Jun or GSC... maybe you can get that effective duration spec from them directly?
Mar 7, 2008, 10:34 PM
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I'm surprised you haven't considered Kelford cams. They're made "next door" to you!
http://www.camshaftshop.com/camshaft...ishi-camshaft/
http://www.camshaftshop.com/camshaft...ishi-camshaft/
Have you considered any of the grinds from Comp Cams or Forced Performance?
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=DSM-Engine
Mabey an FP2X might be up your alley.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...ode=DSM-Engine
Mabey an FP2X might be up your alley.
Last edited by JC evo1; Mar 7, 2008 at 10:37 PM.
Mar 8, 2008, 12:53 AM
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Would the S2's make a noticalbe difference over my HKS 272's? The reason I ask is becasue I am not going to upgrade the springs/retainers and cams for slight power. Would it be unreasonable to expect 50WHP out of a cam swap over my current cam? I would consider the BF272's but Buschur doesn't really recommend them for stock ecu cars. Bottom line would GSC S2's get me 50whp over my current cam setup?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Mar 8, 2008, 11:39 PM
#15
Evolving Member
I believe they have them on their site, but if not, just visit www.dsmtuners.com and search around.
I along with a few personal friends of mine have run the FP2s for a few years now, and I think they are excellent. As FP's site states, FP2s (not FP2X) can be used with stock springs and retainers, and are comperable to HKS 272, but with a little less emphasis on low end, and more up top, which is what you want if you are running the 35R. They idle great, almost like stock, with little chop, but pull nasty up top, especialy on a 50 trim or bigger.