German Castrol VS Amsoil
I'm not sure if it's the same, but MIL.SPEC is selling Castrol SynTorq LT tranny fluid for 6 speed owners now (and 5 speed owners too).
GERMAN CASTROL 0w30 - coupled w/ Napa Gold Oil Filter. - Gold colored, not the green. Says Made in Germany in the Back - European Formula.
From my EVO 9, seems like the OIL doesn't have any problems hitting the 5K mark. The car had 24K miles when I sent it in to get analyzed. Ran the oil for around 4200 miles.
I've stuck the same oil on my wife's EVO X at 912 miles, when it hits 5K - i'll get it analyzed and will post up results.
From my EVO 9, seems like the OIL doesn't have any problems hitting the 5K mark. The car had 24K miles when I sent it in to get analyzed. Ran the oil for around 4200 miles.
I've stuck the same oil on my wife's EVO X at 912 miles, when it hits 5K - i'll get it analyzed and will post up results.
Last edited by funks; Mar 3, 2009 at 12:11 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 485
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
you will NEVER get an honest reply on this site on anything "versus" Amsoil. Amsoil is a site sponsor, many people here sell it, and if you say anthing bad about Amsoil, you get bashed. Bottom line is GC or "German Castrol" has proven itself over NUMEROUS oil analysis done by people on various cars, not a compnay who pays people to do the tests. The oil passes more Euro tests than Amsoil and you can buy it at your local Autozone.
Is Amsoil Good? Yes. Is it the "holy" grayle. No.
Is German Castrol Good? Yes. Is it the "holy" grayle. No.
There is not "perfect" oil, just oil that works best FOR YOUR APPLICATION.
Is Amsoil Good? Yes. Is it the "holy" grayle. No.
Is German Castrol Good? Yes. Is it the "holy" grayle. No.
There is not "perfect" oil, just oil that works best FOR YOUR APPLICATION.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 485
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Let's get a few things cleaned in here. . .
The VOA and educated commentary I've read to date indicates that Mobil 1, and most specifically the HM and EP grades of 0w40 and 15w50, to be very good oils with good additive packages (including good levels of TBN & ZDDP). I see no reason to bash Mobil 1 - definitely a better 'convenience' synthetic.
See:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...67#Post1041219
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...117218&fpart=1
There are more, these are just a start.
'Boutique' oils always cost more, but aren't always better. Some are, some aren't. Amsoil does make very good products, so take that FWIW.
I change my oil every 3k miles. I don't care what the claimed lifespan is. I'll leave it to someone else to test those claims, but not in my high $$ turbo engines.
Castrol Syntec doesn't even perform as well as some conventional oils. Buy whatever you like, but I won't buy Castrol branded anything, regardless of where it's made.
Lastly, the reason why blends of Grp III and PAOs (Grp IV)are allowed to be advertised as "fully synthetic" since 1999 is because the latest generation of Grp III oils meets or exceeds PAO performance in every area except pour point. AFAIK, PAOs are included in the blends to improve pour point, modify viscosity, etc. It isn't a big scam in an attempt to deceive consumers, but is rather a way to deliver synthetic performance at a reasonable price and with widespread availability. And where the one area is concerned where PAO's are definitely superior (pour point), I never encounter temperatures approaching -45 deg C, so it will never make any difference to me.
See: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...?articleid=533
The VOA and educated commentary I've read to date indicates that Mobil 1, and most specifically the HM and EP grades of 0w40 and 15w50, to be very good oils with good additive packages (including good levels of TBN & ZDDP). I see no reason to bash Mobil 1 - definitely a better 'convenience' synthetic.
See:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...67#Post1041219
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...117218&fpart=1
There are more, these are just a start.
'Boutique' oils always cost more, but aren't always better. Some are, some aren't. Amsoil does make very good products, so take that FWIW.
I change my oil every 3k miles. I don't care what the claimed lifespan is. I'll leave it to someone else to test those claims, but not in my high $$ turbo engines.
Castrol Syntec doesn't even perform as well as some conventional oils. Buy whatever you like, but I won't buy Castrol branded anything, regardless of where it's made.
Lastly, the reason why blends of Grp III and PAOs (Grp IV)are allowed to be advertised as "fully synthetic" since 1999 is because the latest generation of Grp III oils meets or exceeds PAO performance in every area except pour point. AFAIK, PAOs are included in the blends to improve pour point, modify viscosity, etc. It isn't a big scam in an attempt to deceive consumers, but is rather a way to deliver synthetic performance at a reasonable price and with widespread availability. And where the one area is concerned where PAO's are definitely superior (pour point), I never encounter temperatures approaching -45 deg C, so it will never make any difference to me.
See: http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...?articleid=533
FWIW, my own research shows Castrol Syntec 0w-30 and 5w-40 are GF-3 oils, which means the 0w-30 looks a bit better on paper than the regular Mobil 1 10w-30, and 5w-40 should be roughly equivalent to Mobil 1 0w-40.
Wow, old thread bump!
GC is great oil but not Porsche approved while Mobil 1 0w-40 is. Both are great oils though. I've been using GC for a couple years on a few of my cars.
Isn't GC made from PAO/Esters, not a Group III?
Old GC FAQ thread on BITOG
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=718643
Why all the Amsoil bashing Jeff?
GC is great oil but not Porsche approved while Mobil 1 0w-40 is. Both are great oils though. I've been using GC for a couple years on a few of my cars.
Isn't GC made from PAO/Esters, not a Group III?
Old GC FAQ thread on BITOG
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=718643
Why all the Amsoil bashing Jeff?
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 485
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Let me see if I can clarify a few things. One, I am glad this thread was brought back up to date because GC (German Castrol) is an excellent oil and it gives people more options to what suits them and their car.
Two, I apologize if I seemed harsh about amsoil, its just this is the deal. Everyone is so hung up on Amsoil Marketing that they don't give other oils a chance. Soon as you bring up another name other than "amsoil" you get bashed. Here is the deal folks, and to be blunt, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Let me throw out some examples and I hope this will clarify things. [B]Every[B] oil company "claims" they are the best. They all show their own indipendent tests showing theirs is better. Amsoil has their trick 4 ball bearing test, Royal Purple has their trick bench bearing test and so and and so on. Redline says they are better, Mobil 1 if asked says they are on top, so what it comes donw to is knowledge. You NEED TO KNOW your oils.
Starters, Amsoil was not the first in synthetics. But they say they are. mmmm Well the guy that developed the brand was an jet pilot. He got the "idea" of using synthetics in cars from the oil used in Jet craft. So what does that say? Synthetics were already around. Who was really first?? I know, but I will let you guys do your own homework on that. Amsoil was the FIRST to get an API license for use in automotive use. Thats it. Done deal. Secondly, Amsoil #1 battle cry is "extended drain intervals" and if your into that type of thing, then Amsoil is the ticket because they have some of the highest TBN's in the business. For me? Am I going to go 15K miles on a turbo running 27psi? mmmm No. I, Like Ted, change my oil very frequently so the whole Amsoil pitch dont mean ntohing to me. What really makes me laugh is everyone made this big oh woopla about Mobil 1 changing formulas a few years ago "oh Mobil 1 isn't as good, Oh Mobil 1 uses group 3 base stocks and less PAO's" and what not. But when Amsoil changes their formulas to meet the same API requirements, no one says a word. mmmm Funny how that is. They too have changed. I won't go into specifics but Amsoil has changed too. Not ALL the formulas, but Mobil hasn't changed ALL of theirs either. Is Amsoil a good oil? Sure it is. I used it in my Evo 8 back in 03-05. So I don't hate them, its just They are not the "only" good oil out there. Moving on.
Royal Purple, The whole "synerlec" pitch about how their film strength is so superrior and what not. So why is it that their Oil Analysis are some of the worst out there? The XPR's are a decent oil, but your talking $15 p/qt. The off the shelf oils are not that great. Their HTHS is very low, and the UOA's of RP are not that great. So if "synerlec" is the shizzle and is supposed to "strengthen the film" then why does it shear like a ***** in the UOA's? When I asked Royal Purple they simple said, "synerlec" is the strongest film strength on the market. I beg to differ!!! Again, the XPR series is top shelf, they use ONLY Group 4 and Group 5 oils in the making of that oil as with the API versions have Group 3, Group 4 and even some Group 1 used as a carrier oil for the "synerlec". Also, Royal Purple got sued for stating claims they could not back up. So now what for them? Royal Purples claim to fame is "we are purple we make HP with SYNERLEC" mmmm ok I don't buy it. Is Royal Purple a good oil? The XPR's are, the rest are not any better than anything else.
Redline. These guys are very unique. They use TONS of Moly in their oil and TONS of ZDDP along with group 5 base stocks to make up this super duper slap you in the face with the bottle oil. Redline has some of the highest HTHS scores in the business on VOU and UOA's done. Redline is very unique in that the Group 5 base stocks clean so well that they don't have to put a bunch of cleaning agents in the oil, so instead what do they do?? They Dump TONS of MOLY and ZDDP!! Their 30W's are as durable as most 40W's and so on. Its a truly good oil. So wheres the catch?? Redline has NO API, or any other service ratings. They are strickly a "racing" oil ONLY. That is how they get away with all the anti wear additives vs the "other" guys. Do you NEED that much Moly and ZDDP for a street car?? That is the question, but I will tell you this, if I had an FP Red or Black Redline would Be the ONLY oil I would use in that application. RIght after I send FP a letter stating how dumb it is that every other turbo out there I can use of the shelf oils, but cant with them, but anyway that is another topic. So, Redline is overkill for 90% of Evo drivers, and only really "helps" the guys making HUGE HP Im talking FULL builds. So to use it in a car you go t owork and back that has cams and a tune?? So think about that one.
Now to the Castrol Syntec 0-30, specifically "German Made" AKA GC oil. Ok, this gets confusing. There are TWO different 0-30's and the MSDS on Castrols website shows the the MSDS for the USA MADE 0-30 NOT the "German" one. Why that is?? I have no idea, I won't provide all the blah blah if you want you can search yourself, but I find out before I post is all I can say. The "German" Syntec is THE ONLY SYNTEC that is NOT a Group 3 based oil. It is Group 4 and Group 5 based and is a hell of an oil for "off the shelf". Don't let the "0" fool you. That does not mean its "thin" or that its "watery" or that its "only good for cold areas" that is NOT TRUE!!! The "0" simple means that in cold weather, it does not thicken as much as a 5,10, 15 Weight oil in the cold. Meaning that the oil flows very good when cold. This benefits ANY climate because 90% of all motor wear is done when?? when the car is first started, so if you can get the oil circulating faster when cold??? following me?? Then when the GC oil gets to temp, it has a cSt viscosity at 100C of 12-13 where as Amsoil and Mobil is/are around 10-11, so what does this mean?? It means it acts very similar to a 40W when at temp and its film strenth is seperrior as well with a HTHS rating of 3.6!!! Amsoil and mobil are in the LOW 3's!!! SO this GC oil would be an EXCELLENT choice for an Evo driver that has some mods, doesn't want to buy a "Race" oil, but wants some added protection. The ZDDP levels in the GC are about equal t othe 0-40 Mobil 1 but the vSt and HTHS on the GC is far superrior to the Mobil 1. Just make sure it says "MADE IN GERMANY" on the back of the bottle. The "Made in the USA" version IS NOT THE SAME. Why that is?? who cares, I am just glad Castrol brings the stuff over. It is a very good oil. Amsoil had their little test compared to their 0-30 and its funny how all their analysis are TOTALLY different than ALL the other ones I have read from "private" people. Again, not bashing Amsoil, its just a fact. Amsoil does their OWN oil analysis in house, so Im sorry too much bias their in their tests. BITOG has countless number of VOA's and UOA's of the GC oil and its WAY different form what Amsoil shows on their tests. Moving on.....
Mobil 1??? mmmmm Yes, its true about 3-4 yrs ago they changed their fomulas for the new API rating of SM. They had to as did ALL the other oil companies that wanted the SM printed on their label. Yes EVEN AMSOIL. Is Mobil still good? Yes. Its EP oil in particular has more PAO (group 4) and group 5 oils in them, where as the regular Mobil 1 does have have group 3 with group 4 added in that is the main difference between regular Mobil 1 and the "EP" or "extended performance" . The 0-40 and the 15-50 are probably the best oils Mobil 1 makes. Excellent additve packages and good ZDDP levels as well as PAO base stocks.
The thing is with the "Euro" oils is, that in Europe. Oil over there costs WAY more than here in the USA. So they have been using "extended drain intervals" for YEARS in their cars. You hear BMW's and Mercedes going 10-15K miles on their oil changes, so they need an oil with higher levels of additives to make it that long. That is why the "euro" oils don't have the "energy conserving" label on the back or the GF-4 rating. I say Most, not ALL. Someone mentioned about the GC oil not being "Porche" approved. Well that is simple, Porche likes a 40W in their boxer engines, where as the GC is a 30W so yes, it wouldn't be Porche approved just for that reason and that is why the 0-40 Mobil 1 is. So I feel if you want an oil with good additive package that is just an in between a regular synthetic and a "botique" oil, the "euro" oils fit the bill nicely. They have higher levels of ZDDP, the TBN's for the oils are high, and they all have a high HTHS rating because to get the seal of approval from VW, BMW, MB etc it has to be an HTHS rating of 3.5 or higher to get the approval. That means the "euro" oils are less likely to shear under stress, and in their case of "extended drain intrvals" and in our EVO case during hard driving.
So to make a long story longer, Oil is a biggy. Lots to know, lots to learn. Please keep this in mind. Please. There is no "BEST" oil Just Good Oil for certain applications. So just consider how you drive, the mods you have, the HP/TQ you have and what you "actually" use your car for. Then choose what you think will be best. Try some oils out, get some UOA's done on your car, see how the car likes it. Check your MPG's, see how your car idles, listen to the noises the motor makes, YOU are the best advocate of what oil works best. I have said it many times on MANY posts. "DONT BELIVE THE HYPE" of all the Oil Biz BS. YOU be your own expert and learn on your own.
I hope this post may help some people. I am not an engine builder, I am not an oil salesman, I am a regular guy just like you guys and gals. I read, I research and read and research and make my own mind. As you should yours. I would HIGHLY recommend though if you have a Built Motor by who ever, PLEASE ask the engine builder what oil weight to use. Very Important since they know what the tolerences are in your motor. If your running Meth, look into oil that is good for that. etc. FP Red and Black Owners, Just call FP yourself, ask questions. Then buy what you feel will fit the bill from what they tell you. Just do it right. Your car will love you for it in the long run.
Jeff
Two, I apologize if I seemed harsh about amsoil, its just this is the deal. Everyone is so hung up on Amsoil Marketing that they don't give other oils a chance. Soon as you bring up another name other than "amsoil" you get bashed. Here is the deal folks, and to be blunt, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Let me throw out some examples and I hope this will clarify things. [B]Every[B] oil company "claims" they are the best. They all show their own indipendent tests showing theirs is better. Amsoil has their trick 4 ball bearing test, Royal Purple has their trick bench bearing test and so and and so on. Redline says they are better, Mobil 1 if asked says they are on top, so what it comes donw to is knowledge. You NEED TO KNOW your oils.
Starters, Amsoil was not the first in synthetics. But they say they are. mmmm Well the guy that developed the brand was an jet pilot. He got the "idea" of using synthetics in cars from the oil used in Jet craft. So what does that say? Synthetics were already around. Who was really first?? I know, but I will let you guys do your own homework on that. Amsoil was the FIRST to get an API license for use in automotive use. Thats it. Done deal. Secondly, Amsoil #1 battle cry is "extended drain intervals" and if your into that type of thing, then Amsoil is the ticket because they have some of the highest TBN's in the business. For me? Am I going to go 15K miles on a turbo running 27psi? mmmm No. I, Like Ted, change my oil very frequently so the whole Amsoil pitch dont mean ntohing to me. What really makes me laugh is everyone made this big oh woopla about Mobil 1 changing formulas a few years ago "oh Mobil 1 isn't as good, Oh Mobil 1 uses group 3 base stocks and less PAO's" and what not. But when Amsoil changes their formulas to meet the same API requirements, no one says a word. mmmm Funny how that is. They too have changed. I won't go into specifics but Amsoil has changed too. Not ALL the formulas, but Mobil hasn't changed ALL of theirs either. Is Amsoil a good oil? Sure it is. I used it in my Evo 8 back in 03-05. So I don't hate them, its just They are not the "only" good oil out there. Moving on.
Royal Purple, The whole "synerlec" pitch about how their film strength is so superrior and what not. So why is it that their Oil Analysis are some of the worst out there? The XPR's are a decent oil, but your talking $15 p/qt. The off the shelf oils are not that great. Their HTHS is very low, and the UOA's of RP are not that great. So if "synerlec" is the shizzle and is supposed to "strengthen the film" then why does it shear like a ***** in the UOA's? When I asked Royal Purple they simple said, "synerlec" is the strongest film strength on the market. I beg to differ!!! Again, the XPR series is top shelf, they use ONLY Group 4 and Group 5 oils in the making of that oil as with the API versions have Group 3, Group 4 and even some Group 1 used as a carrier oil for the "synerlec". Also, Royal Purple got sued for stating claims they could not back up. So now what for them? Royal Purples claim to fame is "we are purple we make HP with SYNERLEC" mmmm ok I don't buy it. Is Royal Purple a good oil? The XPR's are, the rest are not any better than anything else.
Redline. These guys are very unique. They use TONS of Moly in their oil and TONS of ZDDP along with group 5 base stocks to make up this super duper slap you in the face with the bottle oil. Redline has some of the highest HTHS scores in the business on VOU and UOA's done. Redline is very unique in that the Group 5 base stocks clean so well that they don't have to put a bunch of cleaning agents in the oil, so instead what do they do?? They Dump TONS of MOLY and ZDDP!! Their 30W's are as durable as most 40W's and so on. Its a truly good oil. So wheres the catch?? Redline has NO API, or any other service ratings. They are strickly a "racing" oil ONLY. That is how they get away with all the anti wear additives vs the "other" guys. Do you NEED that much Moly and ZDDP for a street car?? That is the question, but I will tell you this, if I had an FP Red or Black Redline would Be the ONLY oil I would use in that application. RIght after I send FP a letter stating how dumb it is that every other turbo out there I can use of the shelf oils, but cant with them, but anyway that is another topic. So, Redline is overkill for 90% of Evo drivers, and only really "helps" the guys making HUGE HP Im talking FULL builds. So to use it in a car you go t owork and back that has cams and a tune?? So think about that one.
Now to the Castrol Syntec 0-30, specifically "German Made" AKA GC oil. Ok, this gets confusing. There are TWO different 0-30's and the MSDS on Castrols website shows the the MSDS for the USA MADE 0-30 NOT the "German" one. Why that is?? I have no idea, I won't provide all the blah blah if you want you can search yourself, but I find out before I post is all I can say. The "German" Syntec is THE ONLY SYNTEC that is NOT a Group 3 based oil. It is Group 4 and Group 5 based and is a hell of an oil for "off the shelf". Don't let the "0" fool you. That does not mean its "thin" or that its "watery" or that its "only good for cold areas" that is NOT TRUE!!! The "0" simple means that in cold weather, it does not thicken as much as a 5,10, 15 Weight oil in the cold. Meaning that the oil flows very good when cold. This benefits ANY climate because 90% of all motor wear is done when?? when the car is first started, so if you can get the oil circulating faster when cold??? following me?? Then when the GC oil gets to temp, it has a cSt viscosity at 100C of 12-13 where as Amsoil and Mobil is/are around 10-11, so what does this mean?? It means it acts very similar to a 40W when at temp and its film strenth is seperrior as well with a HTHS rating of 3.6!!! Amsoil and mobil are in the LOW 3's!!! SO this GC oil would be an EXCELLENT choice for an Evo driver that has some mods, doesn't want to buy a "Race" oil, but wants some added protection. The ZDDP levels in the GC are about equal t othe 0-40 Mobil 1 but the vSt and HTHS on the GC is far superrior to the Mobil 1. Just make sure it says "MADE IN GERMANY" on the back of the bottle. The "Made in the USA" version IS NOT THE SAME. Why that is?? who cares, I am just glad Castrol brings the stuff over. It is a very good oil. Amsoil had their little test compared to their 0-30 and its funny how all their analysis are TOTALLY different than ALL the other ones I have read from "private" people. Again, not bashing Amsoil, its just a fact. Amsoil does their OWN oil analysis in house, so Im sorry too much bias their in their tests. BITOG has countless number of VOA's and UOA's of the GC oil and its WAY different form what Amsoil shows on their tests. Moving on.....
Mobil 1??? mmmmm Yes, its true about 3-4 yrs ago they changed their fomulas for the new API rating of SM. They had to as did ALL the other oil companies that wanted the SM printed on their label. Yes EVEN AMSOIL. Is Mobil still good? Yes. Its EP oil in particular has more PAO (group 4) and group 5 oils in them, where as the regular Mobil 1 does have have group 3 with group 4 added in that is the main difference between regular Mobil 1 and the "EP" or "extended performance" . The 0-40 and the 15-50 are probably the best oils Mobil 1 makes. Excellent additve packages and good ZDDP levels as well as PAO base stocks.
The thing is with the "Euro" oils is, that in Europe. Oil over there costs WAY more than here in the USA. So they have been using "extended drain intervals" for YEARS in their cars. You hear BMW's and Mercedes going 10-15K miles on their oil changes, so they need an oil with higher levels of additives to make it that long. That is why the "euro" oils don't have the "energy conserving" label on the back or the GF-4 rating. I say Most, not ALL. Someone mentioned about the GC oil not being "Porche" approved. Well that is simple, Porche likes a 40W in their boxer engines, where as the GC is a 30W so yes, it wouldn't be Porche approved just for that reason and that is why the 0-40 Mobil 1 is. So I feel if you want an oil with good additive package that is just an in between a regular synthetic and a "botique" oil, the "euro" oils fit the bill nicely. They have higher levels of ZDDP, the TBN's for the oils are high, and they all have a high HTHS rating because to get the seal of approval from VW, BMW, MB etc it has to be an HTHS rating of 3.5 or higher to get the approval. That means the "euro" oils are less likely to shear under stress, and in their case of "extended drain intrvals" and in our EVO case during hard driving.
So to make a long story longer, Oil is a biggy. Lots to know, lots to learn. Please keep this in mind. Please. There is no "BEST" oil Just Good Oil for certain applications. So just consider how you drive, the mods you have, the HP/TQ you have and what you "actually" use your car for. Then choose what you think will be best. Try some oils out, get some UOA's done on your car, see how the car likes it. Check your MPG's, see how your car idles, listen to the noises the motor makes, YOU are the best advocate of what oil works best. I have said it many times on MANY posts. "DONT BELIVE THE HYPE" of all the Oil Biz BS. YOU be your own expert and learn on your own.
I hope this post may help some people. I am not an engine builder, I am not an oil salesman, I am a regular guy just like you guys and gals. I read, I research and read and research and make my own mind. As you should yours. I would HIGHLY recommend though if you have a Built Motor by who ever, PLEASE ask the engine builder what oil weight to use. Very Important since they know what the tolerences are in your motor. If your running Meth, look into oil that is good for that. etc. FP Red and Black Owners, Just call FP yourself, ask questions. Then buy what you feel will fit the bill from what they tell you. Just do it right. Your car will love you for it in the long run.
Jeff
