l2r99gst, I guess the difference is I don't see it as being helpful. I see it as complaining and BS. If an intercooler has .7 psi of pressure drop, to be honest, that's small enough pressure drop that I couldn't give two ****s about it. On a 5 bar sensor the largest margin of error is .375. As I said, I've swapped the sensors in my car and cannot find a difference in the two. No two runs are exact enough to even hold .375 in boost pressure. So using a sensor with .0000000001accuracy is going to make the testing no more accurate.

 

Dave,

I think you're missing the whole point, but no more need to argue.

I think everyone has expressed their gratitude several times in this thread for the testing that you do. I, for one, am very thankful as well.

I knew you were going to read to far into these posts as an attack on you. They aren't. I'm sorry you see them that way. And I'm sorry I jumped in to defend JKav.

Back on topic...

 

That's the best part--a sensor with crazy-low accuracy isn't even needed when its range is appropriate for the measurement.

Ideally the measurement should be around 50% of the sensor range, so measurements in the ~5psi range want a sensor that reads ~10 psi max. In this case, you can even have 1% full scale accuracy (which is pretty "bad") and still have a confidence that your measurement is solid.

 

I just went and looked through some datalogs.

I have two back to back dyno runs on my RS, I was testing turbine housings. No changes were made. The HP on Run #1 was 683.7 whp, the HP on Run #2 was 683.0. Close enough, right? The boost on Run #1 had a peak of 45.29, the boost on Run #2 had a peak of 45.39. Boost at 7500 rpm on Run #1 was 41.01 and on Run #2 was 41.59.

This is to show my point that two runs aren't with tenths of a pound so to worry about tenths of a pound on an i/c test is something that is beyond what you can expect on a dyno test.

You want to test the stuff in a laboratory? OK, that's a different story, works good in books and math equations too. On the dyno, my opinion is the sensor are more than accurate enough.

Also, I think any real intercooler core manufacturer has pressure drop ratings on their intercoolers. If anyone's that concerned and has to have a number, read the rating on the core.

 

No animosity here. Just sharing some of my test experience. Hopefully people can get something out of it.

That's what sucks about a text-based interface, the sense of tone can be whatever the reader wants it to be...

 

l2r99gst, you do NOT owe me an apology. I see what you are trying to say. No apology needed. We are both grown men and can have a conversation. I don't feel I am reading into this as an "attack". I am simply trying to point out that the accuracy of the sensor is "good enough" for the testing that is being performed.

Take for example a datalog of back pressure. If you can look at the log when you are done and see the back pressure change +/- it will atleast tell you what direction you are moving in. I don't think any of us (us rednecks maybe) care if it's .XX accurate. I know I do not.

Let me try to be more clear without being arguementitive.

Let's say I test an intercooler with the sensor I am using. The inlet pressure shows 30 psi and the outlet shows 30 psi. I understand that you are saying that on this test I could actually have .8 psi +/-, so it could have .8 psi pressure drop or raise. I understand that. Hear me out though. In that case I am a happy MF'er. That is a damn good intercooler right there. Now if the next one I test shows 30 psi inlet pressure and 26 psi outlet pressure that .8 +/- to me doesn't mean much as it is not a very good result. I know have enough information to make myself happy.

I hope this clears up more of what atleast I am trying to put across.

I do understand what you are saying jkav and sorry I came across the way I did. I just don't think the accuracy you are mentioning is needed at this level of the sport, so to speak.

 

I believe AEM moved to the SSI sensors due to cost a while ago. Though not as accurate as the Kavlico, I don't see the need for .126543 psi accuracy.

Very good point of comparison on the mechanical analog gauges and human viewing vs. the electronic simultaneous dalatalogging. With most Dynomometers these days you can input 4 or more 0-5v inputs and log on the dyno pull the comparisons.

 

Don't just buy Anything, Do Lots of Reasearch on everything you are going to buy and everything will be all right

 

exactly, the test is not difficult at all. I dont care what turbo is used, all that matters is data from pressure differential/ temperature difference @ a certain flow rate in lbs/min. and you do this for multiple flows in lbs/min. I think 15, 25,45 lbs/,min would be sufficient.
company's that only say it has a bigger core, more surface area da da da only means so much. show me the easy test results. flow, temp, pressure.
this is an easy part to test other parts are more involved but should and can be done. stuff like cams should be tested compared to stock with all information given, rpm, flow rate, temp ect...
Dont just show me cam test showing a stock car dyno, then post a race gas dyno with more boost. That dont tell me jack.

 

Ok i made the thread. Its going to take a few days to rap it up. I started off with the AMS crew. Ill be doing BR later on today since its wed already i know thats going to be a long list

 

OK, I agree that there IS a TON of info out there and yes I think that the better tuners do a lot of testing. My frustration is that there are no set standards to use for comparisons - such as the "categories" I mentioned in my thread.

I lament that there is not a really great index or source to use for comparison - and hopefully what jmartinez1170 is putting together is exactly what some of us are looking for. Don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot of info out there, just not organized in a great format.

I am in the market for an intercooler upgrade and am doing lots of research, got it broken down to BR, AMS, and Greddy. I don't have head to head info, but hey, at least I do have some great info - that's why I chose these brands. I like the concept of the BR design and that thinking is why I respect BR.

Personally, I am interested in prior threads that show spool up between FP green and Garrett GT30. New HTA design is very entising, but so far I've come up short on anything with similar conditions that I feel are comparable.

I think that we as a community have a tremendous amount of info, just would be nice to have it in a clearer format such that we don't have to browse 20 threads with a lot of "hey bro do this" or "cool" messages that don't really mean anything to me in my quest for data.

I really have enjoyed a number of these forums - especially the ones that give all the juicy details like the "pump gas" thread by BR and the "FP green saga" by 9sec9. Awesome work.