mx5tc, Your post is one of the best yet. It shows you understand what it takes to make a great driver, power under the curve. The masses chase dyno numbers, but that's not everything. It will not show how the car will behave in the real world stop and go traffic and accelerate around town. In reality most members here don't chase the quarter mile or autocross every week, they have cars that they drive everyday and would like dependable power they can feel. The White will deliver that with or without my manifold. As to your camshaft question 9sec9 posted that info earlier in this thread or you can PM David Buschur as to what is the best selection for your needs. Thank You for your interest and great post. Indy

 

Since they already have the Green out, why put this out if it won't be a hit? I think it will be, quicker spool, we'll see. We'll see how it sells.....

 

It'll sell for those looking for a minimal price/upgrade to the IX turbo and for the ones not wanting to use Meth.

 

Something must have really gone wrong in the dsm world lately for you to want "evo reverse rotation turbo tech" for your dsm. There are already great and cost affordable dsm solutions already that trump the lacking results of a evogreen.
(lacking in the context of bang for the buck at $1700).

 

The only thing that draws some concern in my mind of the test by 9sec9 is the 700 or so RPM slower spool compared to the green.

I understand that some things were changed to intentionally shift the curve. But shifting the VE curve further into the RPM range does not mean that the torque just goes to crap below that peak tuning point. The stock manifold is a tapered runner design which will fatten up the torque curve at the expense of peak numbers at the "tuned" RPM. Unless this manifold by Indy has effectively been turned into a straight runner manifold, there shouldn't be real dramatic losses below the peak torque point. As such, the manifold could have easilly slowed spool a bit, but the 700RPM seems like a bit much to be only due to the manifold.

Turbine to compressor match is critical, as stated by FP. A smaller turbine does not always mean faster spool. If the green has a better wheel match, it could potentially make more power while still spooling faster.

I really appreciate what 9sec9 and the others have done. It is very good test for those looking to push the turbo hard. It has reviled a lot about the turbo and is very useful information. Thank you

Also, the white could be great for somebody that wants Green-like performance but doesn't want to wait the 2 months (or what ever it currently is) wait for a green for a few extra HP.

 

i'm seriously considering the FP white. i love the stock spool but would like alittle more up top too. yes the magical 400 is always nice but it's just a number that can fluctuate with whatever circumstances. i would love to have a bit more power in a range that i can use it in daily (without meth). my car is my DD and i want the most out of it safely and to retain reliablity. this turbo seems to be my next option for the upgrade. i think coupled with some GSC S2's which have been seen to make the stock turbo pull hard all the way to redline, will be a great match up. i guess we'll have to wait and see. i have to save my pennies for this. to many bills at the moment!

 

No kidding. I'm the dumb one. I keep telling myself 'NEVER AGAIN!' and keep saying yes anyways.

 

For what you just stated, I think the white would be an upgrade for you.

 

400 whp or not, it looks like the White will be an ideal turbo upgrade for people like me:
I have an VIII with the 9.8 hot side, daily driven on 91octane only, and I race autocross and smaller road course on street tires several times a month between going to work, hauling groceries, and taking MILFS on dates with their kids. Unless I am WOT before a corner and going to be braking soon, I am rarely above 6500 rpm.
The green has been appealing for a upgrade if I wanted to race on R-comps, but as others have said, to run it on pump only is not using it to its full potential and I always wished it were at least a few hundred dollars cheaper. I don't think I'll ever run meth, and E85 is too scarce around here for me to run daily.
Check, and, check with the white.
Everyone who gets caught up with dyno and 1/4 mile numbers says "lag is overrated" but to people like me, horsepower can be overrated and reposnse/powerband is underrated.

 

Can someone save me some time and tell me what page has the info on the FP white.

 

Wow! Didn't think it was THAT fast! Ya got me there... but I still think the green is a waste for those who only want to run pump only and lower boost.

 

A third gear boost rise and response comparison won't show the differences as well as a higher gear and higher loads.

Making max power possible on 93 octane fuel has more to do with fine tuning around its limitations than the turbo that is used. Raise the RPM range of your power curve and you'll make more power at the same boost level. Do things to change how much boost your setup can tolerate and you'll make more power. Boost is power up to a certain point until you make significant VE improvements.

That white dyno graph comes with a log that shows actual intake manifold pressure and ign timing. The car is not 'optimized' by a long shot. The boost curve was kept fairly flat on purpose. The boost curve was not high at the low end and tapering off sharply like most of us would try to achieve to get more meat under the curve.

There's lots of cars out there making good power with the 1580, and I think that's great, but look at the curves. If you were to see the boost curves and some other data you'd get a better idea how to equalize the fruits, turn the banana into an apple. We've tested the bejeezus out of the 1580 and know exactly what it will put out in compressor flow, it goes off the map a little but not much before it 'hits the wall'. The white has extra flow capacity and people *should* be able to make use of it, but a lot of that is up to them.

I don't think an old green dyno run and recent white dyno runs from Tom are the same fruit, without seeing the boost curves and without taking into consideration the changes that have occurred makes for something that is hard to compare.

 

This is exactly the target for its use.

 

Agreed

I understand what Tom was getting at, and yes there is a relationship between the torque peak due to the manifold change and the differences seen. But guessing that the 700 RPM shift in peak torque due to the manifold causing the 700 RPM difference in spool isn't really a result I would put 100% trust in.

Regardless, great test. Grocmax got me all interested in what exactly "the best is yet to come" will mean though.

 

^True Dat!