BR's Project White, "completed". Lots of information.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 210
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati Ohio
Ha, ha. Just had a simlilar conversation on a local forum. RB25det with a 40r wanted a race. The conversation went like this;
Obviously I am a supporter, but I would stay out of it if David was wrong. He hasnt exactly been pushing it. There is plenty of boost left to run.
so... your built motor and huge cams make up, im sure his car isnt slow. plus its just for fun so who cares....
Come on now johnny.. You have been around enough to know that bottom end makes little difference in hp. Port work, and cams do, but the bottom line is, it is still air in, air out. If your turbo setup is maxed out, all you are going to do is change what psi in the manifold you see when making your power.
With that being said, ryan has little self control an would race a top fuel dragster if it 3 beeped him. And I'm sure he won't mind seeing how his car stacks up. Just not excited about a race that we know what the outcome will be. On the other hand, you waxing the **** talking cobras is bad ***.
With that being said, ryan has little self control an would race a top fuel dragster if it 3 beeped him. And I'm sure he won't mind seeing how his car stacks up. Just not excited about a race that we know what the outcome will be. On the other hand, you waxing the **** talking cobras is bad ***.
Obviously I am a supporter, but I would stay out of it if David was wrong. He hasnt exactly been pushing it. There is plenty of boost left to run.
Hey Dave, next time you look at your graph from your 472whp/489wtq pull you sent me a log from, let me know how the curve looks compared to this one so I know my new revisions for v5.3 are on the right track. This was with 1.031:1 4th gear ratio, 4.11:1 final gear and 26.7" tire diameter. Thanks for all of your help!
Last edited by Jack_of_Trades; Jun 21, 2009 at 12:46 PM.
That curve looks more similar, did you get the fax I sent you with the printed numbers on it? Should be easy to verify by that. I will look though, tomorrow and try to remember to get back to you.
jimib, you and I have been around this stuff to long, we both have memory loss and know nothing! haha
jimib, you and I have been around this stuff to long, we both have memory loss and know nothing! haha
Jamie I think you mean 46x range right? The sheet I sent you is correct, that is the numbers after the dyno applies the smoothing to the chart, it's usually a few whp less than what comes up on the actual screen right after the pull.
Going 10's on a stock block isn't an accomplishment, it's a gamble. This is also on the stock ECU. Quickest time on a stock ECU that I know of to date is 10.30's on a "35r" type turbo. Mellon and Fathouse. This car is just on a red.
The shortblock in a car adds very little power to a combination. What it does add is a reliability and safety factor. You build the shortblock to handle the power to avoid buying a new $700 crankshaft and a new $1800 block.
The shortblock in a car adds very little power to a combination. What it does add is a reliability and safety factor. You build the shortblock to handle the power to avoid buying a new $700 crankshaft and a new $1800 block.
I have made over 500 whp on our dyno on the stock bottom end. I've done it on a few cars, most guys I try to scare the crap out of so they don't ask me to do it though. The cars I am thinking of ended up putting rods/pistons in them before the engines broke.
I will use a good friend of mine for an example. Eric, we built his car, stock engine/stock head. He absolutely loved his car, it had our Stages 1-4, AEM EMS, Green and was running on E85. The car ran 11.0 at 127 mph. It made 425'ish whp and about the same torque if I remember right. We had the revlimiter set up just high enough he could cross the traps in 4th gear with it.
He was actually on his way to our shop one day. Stopped at a light idling. He pulled away from the light slowly and the car just quit. He called a wrecker and had it hauled to us. I figured it blew a fuse. Nope, the stock piston split in half, right down the middle, clean perfect break. Rings still holding it together. Now he runs 9.80's a 150 mph and still drives it everyday.
There's been a lot of guys proud of how fast they went on the stock block, most of them who didn't finally put pistons/rods in them ended up buying a new block from the hole that ended up in it.
So, sorry I got off on that tangent. I do not have a recommendation. The stock parts are only going to hold up so long. I've seen pistons break in half, like crack down the center vertically quite a few times now. I've seen rods snap in half and seen some so destroyed it's hard to say what happened. I'd say if you are making 400 or more whp on our dyno, running 7500+ rpm on a regular basis or running 30 or more PSI of boost on a regular basis the smartest thing to do is put rods and pistons in it atleast. The $2500 extra it will cost you for the block and crank if something happens just isn't worth it. That is in a good situation too, what if that rod blows through the block and the oil catches fire? Many times it will also break valve heads off costing you a head too, that's another $1400 for a core.
The stock engine is amazing, not even a built engine is 100% bullet proof, but playing with a stock engine at high boost, high hp, high rpm is just like playing roulette.
I will use a good friend of mine for an example. Eric, we built his car, stock engine/stock head. He absolutely loved his car, it had our Stages 1-4, AEM EMS, Green and was running on E85. The car ran 11.0 at 127 mph. It made 425'ish whp and about the same torque if I remember right. We had the revlimiter set up just high enough he could cross the traps in 4th gear with it.
He was actually on his way to our shop one day. Stopped at a light idling. He pulled away from the light slowly and the car just quit. He called a wrecker and had it hauled to us. I figured it blew a fuse. Nope, the stock piston split in half, right down the middle, clean perfect break. Rings still holding it together. Now he runs 9.80's a 150 mph and still drives it everyday.
There's been a lot of guys proud of how fast they went on the stock block, most of them who didn't finally put pistons/rods in them ended up buying a new block from the hole that ended up in it.
So, sorry I got off on that tangent. I do not have a recommendation. The stock parts are only going to hold up so long. I've seen pistons break in half, like crack down the center vertically quite a few times now. I've seen rods snap in half and seen some so destroyed it's hard to say what happened. I'd say if you are making 400 or more whp on our dyno, running 7500+ rpm on a regular basis or running 30 or more PSI of boost on a regular basis the smartest thing to do is put rods and pistons in it atleast. The $2500 extra it will cost you for the block and crank if something happens just isn't worth it. That is in a good situation too, what if that rod blows through the block and the oil catches fire? Many times it will also break valve heads off costing you a head too, that's another $1400 for a core.
The stock engine is amazing, not even a built engine is 100% bullet proof, but playing with a stock engine at high boost, high hp, high rpm is just like playing roulette.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 210
Likes: 2
From: Cincinnati Ohio
I have made over 500 whp on our dyno on the stock bottom end. I've done it on a few cars, most guys I try to scare the crap out of so they don't ask me to do it though. The cars I am thinking of ended up putting rods/pistons in them before the engines broke.
I will use a good friend of mine for an example. Eric, we built his car, stock engine/stock head. He absolutely loved his car, it had our Stages 1-4, AEM EMS, Green and was running on E85. The car ran 11.0 at 127 mph. It made 425'ish whp and about the same torque if I remember right. We had the revlimiter set up just high enough he could cross the traps in 4th gear with it.
He was actually on his way to our shop one day. Stopped at a light idling. He pulled away from the light slowly and the car just quit. He called a wrecker and had it hauled to us. I figured it blew a fuse. Nope, the stock piston split in half, right down the middle, clean perfect break. Rings still holding it together. Now he runs 9.80's a 150 mph and still drives it everyday.
There's been a lot of guys proud of how fast they went on the stock block, most of them who didn't finally put pistons/rods in them ended up buying a new block from the hole that ended up in it.
So, sorry I got off on that tangent. I do not have a recommendation. The stock parts are only going to hold up so long. I've seen pistons break in half, like crack down the center vertically quite a few times now. I've seen rods snap in half and seen some so destroyed it's hard to say what happened. I'd say if you are making 400 or more whp on our dyno, running 7500+ rpm on a regular basis or running 30 or more PSI of boost on a regular basis the smartest thing to do is put rods and pistons in it atleast. The $2500 extra it will cost you for the block and crank if something happens just isn't worth it. That is in a good situation too, what if that rod blows through the block and the oil catches fire? Many times it will also break valve heads off costing you a head too, that's another $1400 for a core.
The stock engine is amazing, not even a built engine is 100% bullet proof, but playing with a stock engine at high boost, high hp, high rpm is just like playing roulette.
I will use a good friend of mine for an example. Eric, we built his car, stock engine/stock head. He absolutely loved his car, it had our Stages 1-4, AEM EMS, Green and was running on E85. The car ran 11.0 at 127 mph. It made 425'ish whp and about the same torque if I remember right. We had the revlimiter set up just high enough he could cross the traps in 4th gear with it.
He was actually on his way to our shop one day. Stopped at a light idling. He pulled away from the light slowly and the car just quit. He called a wrecker and had it hauled to us. I figured it blew a fuse. Nope, the stock piston split in half, right down the middle, clean perfect break. Rings still holding it together. Now he runs 9.80's a 150 mph and still drives it everyday.
There's been a lot of guys proud of how fast they went on the stock block, most of them who didn't finally put pistons/rods in them ended up buying a new block from the hole that ended up in it.
So, sorry I got off on that tangent. I do not have a recommendation. The stock parts are only going to hold up so long. I've seen pistons break in half, like crack down the center vertically quite a few times now. I've seen rods snap in half and seen some so destroyed it's hard to say what happened. I'd say if you are making 400 or more whp on our dyno, running 7500+ rpm on a regular basis or running 30 or more PSI of boost on a regular basis the smartest thing to do is put rods and pistons in it atleast. The $2500 extra it will cost you for the block and crank if something happens just isn't worth it. That is in a good situation too, what if that rod blows through the block and the oil catches fire? Many times it will also break valve heads off costing you a head too, that's another $1400 for a core.
The stock engine is amazing, not even a built engine is 100% bullet proof, but playing with a stock engine at high boost, high hp, high rpm is just like playing roulette.
I agree 100% At around 400 whp I would suggest rods and pistons as well. Unless you have a motor on stand by and simply don't care, Its not worth it.
-Em
Originally Posted by Emery
10.04 / 142 - "Ricer" - Fastest and Quickest Stock-Block Evo VIII on the Planet... Built at STM.
