More broken parts for the Bad Bish
You've been quiet about this car all summer, I know you've done more than putz around with the CAS 
My motive is, that I would simply like to know what is the best ECU on the market! You asking me what my motive is, is like asking, "jeez Dave why'd you test all those intakes, this old magnus sheet metal intake was working fine!".
What upsets me a bit as well, is Haltech has non-existent knock control AFAIK. Then you look at Autronic for example where Richard Aubert (ex Motec btw) spent years working on custom 4G63 per cylinder knock control for the Evo PnP SM4 board, and you guys won't even give it a try!
And from my limited understanding, AEM uses boost comp tables etc for fueling? I think that is an entirely primitive system compared to the Autronic where you map fuel using VE not IDC in the fuel tables. You could map the entire fuel table with the same number in every cell and you would be in the ballpark with Autronic.
Plus for years you and Dave and every other vendor out there has been pushing AEM which can't even sync to start the car within 5 seconds. Now all of the sudden there is something better? There has always been something better. In fact probably anything would have been better.
I do understand all you need is a distributor and a carb to make a ton of power but ECU's are important in terms ignition and injector drivers, startup, idle, and safety in terms of knock control.
Why are COP systems so popular for Evo's when I can run 42 psi of boost on stock coils with Autronic? I think the AEM is a big reason for the success of COP. In fact I believe there was threads on this and how the AEM settings for dwell etc were incorrect.
My only point is, it would be terrific if a test was done where all the features of PnP Evo ECU's were compared, with safety especially in mind for the end users who you are selling the units to. I get asked all the time what standalone do I recommend. I would absolutely use Dave's findings as point of reference if he conducted an ECU comparison test.
What upsets me a bit as well, is Haltech has non-existent knock control AFAIK. Then you look at Autronic for example where Richard Aubert (ex Motec btw) spent years working on custom 4G63 per cylinder knock control for the Evo PnP SM4 board, and you guys won't even give it a try!
And from my limited understanding, AEM uses boost comp tables etc for fueling? I think that is an entirely primitive system compared to the Autronic where you map fuel using VE not IDC in the fuel tables. You could map the entire fuel table with the same number in every cell and you would be in the ballpark with Autronic.
Plus for years you and Dave and every other vendor out there has been pushing AEM which can't even sync to start the car within 5 seconds. Now all of the sudden there is something better? There has always been something better. In fact probably anything would have been better.
I do understand all you need is a distributor and a carb to make a ton of power but ECU's are important in terms ignition and injector drivers, startup, idle, and safety in terms of knock control.
Why are COP systems so popular for Evo's when I can run 42 psi of boost on stock coils with Autronic? I think the AEM is a big reason for the success of COP. In fact I believe there was threads on this and how the AEM settings for dwell etc were incorrect.
My only point is, it would be terrific if a test was done where all the features of PnP Evo ECU's were compared, with safety especially in mind for the end users who you are selling the units to. I get asked all the time what standalone do I recommend. I would absolutely use Dave's findings as point of reference if he conducted an ECU comparison test.
I dont know how to explain the work around on the knock control.. Our tuner doesnt use it.. He doesnt need it and we have NEVER had a motor issue due to detonation or preignition.. I really dont know what to say.. He doesnt like to post about his style of tuning and trade secrets i guess..
Look at the cars from Gas Motorsports.. http://www.gasmotorsport.com.au/
6.4@213mph.. they are right there with titan and always have run Haltech and run it on everything 2jz powered from street cars, racers to boats.. The Fastest Cars in AUS and they arent using Autronic.. Same as the 7 second Evo.. Was on Haltec for a long time running bottom 8's before moving to Motec but still Haltech sponsors..
Do me a favor since this is ALWAYS a topic you like to push.. Start a thread please that is ECU related and ill reply and see if i can get Crispeed to answer some questions as well.. I dont wanna clutter up Daves thread..
Mike
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,788
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I just believe an ECU test would be useful for the community.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 1
Dave or Mike, can you tell us about the Haltech knock control system?
Can you start a new thread about this like Mike suggested? I think it might turn into a very informative thread. I would also like to question you some on the Autronic, but I don't want to clutter up this thread.
crcain, mike etc., it's not cluttering the thread, feel free to discuss it here, it's a good topic. This thread is just an update on what's going on so I do not have any problems with anything be posted in here. No worries.
I did find out this morning that I am/was mistaken. The Haltech does not have knock control. This is a pretty big bummer for me to be honest, not sure where I got that it did have it but now that I know it doesn't I am very up in the air about using it. It's on it's way here now and I'll have it this morning. I'm going to have to do some thinking about it all at this point.
I sure hate to run the car like it is, as fast as it feels, I CAN NOT deal with another cam sensor problem and torn up parts for some BS reason. Parts break and that's something we all have to deal with but paying for major fixes for a $40 sensor pisses me off.
scheides,
I have posted graphs on the car but now for awhile you are right. The car was at 690 whp/535 torque at 40 psi last time it was on the dyno. That is the most power it had ever made on the BF272 cams. It is also the fattest power curve. I did not post that graph simply because it is down from when I had the big custom ground Crane cams in the car. Those were good for an additional 40 whp. One of the lobes got wiped out and I had to take them out. I am working now to get those cams ground again but the technology used to grind them is making it tough to duplicate them, they were not 1950's technology like the majority of the other cams we are all using.
r/t ernie, the mods list is extensive. I'll give a brief run down of it below:
BR Stage 3 2.1
BR Stage 3 head
BF272 cams
BR double pumper/twin feed line kit
BR fuel rail/stock regulator
BR Vband, 3" turbo back with two mufflers
BR forward facing turbo kit with HTA86 turbo
BR coil on plug ignition
BR race FMIC
BR sheetmetal intake manifold
BR 65 mm throttle body
AEM EMS
BR i/c pipes uppper/lower
That's pretty much the major parts.
I did find out this morning that I am/was mistaken. The Haltech does not have knock control. This is a pretty big bummer for me to be honest, not sure where I got that it did have it but now that I know it doesn't I am very up in the air about using it. It's on it's way here now and I'll have it this morning. I'm going to have to do some thinking about it all at this point.
I sure hate to run the car like it is, as fast as it feels, I CAN NOT deal with another cam sensor problem and torn up parts for some BS reason. Parts break and that's something we all have to deal with but paying for major fixes for a $40 sensor pisses me off.
scheides,
I have posted graphs on the car but now for awhile you are right. The car was at 690 whp/535 torque at 40 psi last time it was on the dyno. That is the most power it had ever made on the BF272 cams. It is also the fattest power curve. I did not post that graph simply because it is down from when I had the big custom ground Crane cams in the car. Those were good for an additional 40 whp. One of the lobes got wiped out and I had to take them out. I am working now to get those cams ground again but the technology used to grind them is making it tough to duplicate them, they were not 1950's technology like the majority of the other cams we are all using.
r/t ernie, the mods list is extensive. I'll give a brief run down of it below:
BR Stage 3 2.1
BR Stage 3 head
BF272 cams
BR double pumper/twin feed line kit
BR fuel rail/stock regulator
BR Vband, 3" turbo back with two mufflers
BR forward facing turbo kit with HTA86 turbo
BR coil on plug ignition
BR race FMIC
BR sheetmetal intake manifold
BR 65 mm throttle body
AEM EMS
BR i/c pipes uppper/lower
That's pretty much the major parts.
So finally out with the 2.1 info eh? Very intriguing, curious to know more about these 
And 40whp for the crane cams....are you saying you made 720+whp with an hta86? That is retarded power, I mean people are making that with billet 67mm turbos and hell, I know a guy that made way less than that on a 42R.....your setup is insane. Please share the graphs when you get time.
In the name of phat powerbands, making big power on a 'smaller' turbo like this is what everyone should strive for...way awesome!
And 40whp for the crane cams....are you saying you made 720+whp with an hta86? That is retarded power, I mean people are making that with billet 67mm turbos and hell, I know a guy that made way less than that on a 42R.....your setup is insane. Please share the graphs when you get time. In the name of phat powerbands, making big power on a 'smaller' turbo like this is what everyone should strive for...way awesome!
The 2.1 information has been out, it was no secret.
The car made 719 whp before on the 2 liter and the big cams, that was in the winter.
The most I think it had made previous on the 272 cams was 684'ish. Keep in mind the day the car ran 9.04 at 159.64 it was at 635 whp.
The car made 719 whp before on the 2 liter and the big cams, that was in the winter.
The most I think it had made previous on the 272 cams was 684'ish. Keep in mind the day the car ran 9.04 at 159.64 it was at 635 whp.
glad to see that that you got the car fixed! sounds like it's a blast to drive now!
David, did you have problems with the Cam sensor going bad even when you used the stock Crankshaft position sensor disc with the AEM?
Just wondering if it has only gone bad when you've been using the 12-tooth Crankshaft position sensor disc.
I put a ton of mines on my car and luckily havent had a problem with this yet. I'm sure it could come up at anytime really though lol. with heavily modded cars there is always something popping up haha
David, did you have problems with the Cam sensor going bad even when you used the stock Crankshaft position sensor disc with the AEM?
Just wondering if it has only gone bad when you've been using the 12-tooth Crankshaft position sensor disc.
I put a ton of mines on my car and luckily havent had a problem with this yet. I'm sure it could come up at anytime really though lol. with heavily modded cars there is always something popping up haha
Last edited by Johnboy1065; Sep 18, 2009 at 01:19 PM.
