ams Moustache Bar Eliminator
Oct 9, 2009, 12:53 PM
#17
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That's why, if it's a part that takes a lot of stress, I will only buy it when I know it's been tested thoroughly on a road-course (TA, OLA, or wheel-to-wheel racing).
l8r)
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Oct 9, 2009, 02:16 PM
#18
If you are using the original Buschur Moustach Bar, it should and needs to be changed to their new one. The original unit was not built to withstand the daily use/abuse the Evo's can dish out. It was not designed properly and can and did result in failures. I know of at least 4 other cars on the verge of failure (cracks in exact same location as our failure). The pictures below show how the center section gets ripped out of the moustache bar and results in continued failure to the rear diff area.
Remember the 'Diff exploding' video? It wasn't the diff, as a matter of fact, the diff was re-used. When the moustache bar failed, it caused the rear diff to rip the driver's side bolt out of the sub-frame, which dropped the rear end down and pulled the drive shaft out of the stub axle. FOR YOUR SAFETY..If you're running the original Buschur Racing Moustache Bar, INSPECT IT! Don't let this happen at the wrong time and cause an accident. I wasn't going to make this post, but I feel compelled to advise others since I don't believe a safety recall was ever made, other than a 1 on 1 recall. One particular person I talked to discovered not only was his failing, but also one of his friends. My replacement was used for no more than 4 passes and upon returning home, it too began to fail. Clear signs of movement. I went back to the stock moustache bar. 13 lbs isn't worth safety.
Notice that the ONLY part different than factory original is the moustache bar. The side diff supports, bolts, subframe and washers were stock/original. What appeared to be happening was the diff could move forward/rearward just enough to fatique the thin metal plate until it failed. Not sure how the new Buschur unit is holding up.
Remember the 'Diff exploding' video? It wasn't the diff, as a matter of fact, the diff was re-used. When the moustache bar failed, it caused the rear diff to rip the driver's side bolt out of the sub-frame, which dropped the rear end down and pulled the drive shaft out of the stub axle. FOR YOUR SAFETY..If you're running the original Buschur Racing Moustache Bar, INSPECT IT! Don't let this happen at the wrong time and cause an accident. I wasn't going to make this post, but I feel compelled to advise others since I don't believe a safety recall was ever made, other than a 1 on 1 recall. One particular person I talked to discovered not only was his failing, but also one of his friends. My replacement was used for no more than 4 passes and upon returning home, it too began to fail. Clear signs of movement. I went back to the stock moustache bar. 13 lbs isn't worth safety.
Notice that the ONLY part different than factory original is the moustache bar. The side diff supports, bolts, subframe and washers were stock/original. What appeared to be happening was the diff could move forward/rearward just enough to fatique the thin metal plate until it failed. Not sure how the new Buschur unit is holding up.
A differential mount is an essential part of a car going where you intend it to go -- that is NOT a part to skimp on or guess about.
A manufacturer of any part is responsible to engineer, design and test it to make sure it is suitable for the purpose for which it is sold to the general public, and if it fails due to engineering, design or manufacturing defects, the manufacturer can and should be held liable liable for the consequences, harm and injury. It's only by luck of the draw that someone was not seriously injured or killed when a failure like this occurs.
David Buschur, when he was commenting about other vendors, publicly stated that "I've found you test and prove something first and then sell it, not the other way around." With this part, given the number of failures that has occurred, I'd be interested in what design criteria and testing was done BEFORE the part was sold in order to determine whether it was adequate, and what has been done since that time to protect the customers who bought this model with the problems.
Was this an engineering and design defect, or a manufacturing failure?
Have the other EvoM members who bought and installed this part been warned about the problem? I'd not sleep at night until I knew everyone at risk was aware of what could happen.
Oct 9, 2009, 07:12 PM
#19
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A differential mount is an essential part of a car going where you intend it to go -- that is NOT a part to skimp on or guess about.
A manufacturer of any part is responsible to engineer, design and test it to make sure it is suitable for the purpose for which it is sold to the general public, and if it fails due to engineering, design or manufacturing defects, the manufacturer can and should be held liable liable for the consequences, harm and injury. It's only by luck of the draw that someone was not seriously injured or killed when a failure like this occurs.
David Buschur, when he was commenting about other vendors, publicly stated that "I've found you test and prove something first and then sell it, not the other way around." With this part, given the number of failures that has occurred, I'd be interested in what design criteria and testing was done BEFORE the part was sold in order to determine whether it was adequate, and what has been done since that time to protect the customers who bought this model with the problems.
Was this an engineering and design defect, or a manufacturing failure?
Have the other EvoM members who bought and installed this part been warned about the problem? I'd not sleep at night until I knew everyone at risk was aware of what could happen.
A manufacturer of any part is responsible to engineer, design and test it to make sure it is suitable for the purpose for which it is sold to the general public, and if it fails due to engineering, design or manufacturing defects, the manufacturer can and should be held liable liable for the consequences, harm and injury. It's only by luck of the draw that someone was not seriously injured or killed when a failure like this occurs.
David Buschur, when he was commenting about other vendors, publicly stated that "I've found you test and prove something first and then sell it, not the other way around." With this part, given the number of failures that has occurred, I'd be interested in what design criteria and testing was done BEFORE the part was sold in order to determine whether it was adequate, and what has been done since that time to protect the customers who bought this model with the problems.
Was this an engineering and design defect, or a manufacturing failure?
Have the other EvoM members who bought and installed this part been warned about the problem? I'd not sleep at night until I knew everyone at risk was aware of what could happen.
Oct 9, 2009, 09:24 PM
#21
i have the AMS rear mustache delete and the BR side diff brackets. HA not for the DD'r unless you can take some loud noise and vibration.
add this to some avid 90A motor mounts and a AMS front cross member and you got your self one annoying car. but i like that race car feel. hehe
add this to some avid 90A motor mounts and a AMS front cross member and you got your self one annoying car. but i like that race car feel. hehe
Oct 9, 2009, 09:53 PM
#23
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Anyone know when the new Buscher bar came out? I got mine pretty close to when they were first released. What sort of power/torque was being made on the ones that failed?
Oct 10, 2009, 07:10 AM
#24
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Apparently this has happened on multiple cars (not a single isolated incident like a defect) so it looks like it is a design problem. Even more scary is that Dave runs this part on his RS with no cage, no real safety equipment. I'm sure he replaces this part every track day because he realizes the problem, but if that were to crack and send that car tumbling on the top end, yeah probably a dead driver. 3pt belt, no cage, bye bye.
Oct 10, 2009, 08:30 AM
#25
I'd also like to know what date the new version was released ? as I picked one up last Sept.
I have this along with the aluminum diff side mounts, Road Race Aluminum motor mounts, Driveshaft solid mounts - rides stiff, shifts better and is a fair amount louder in the inside but the major noise increase comes from the motor mounts. The only noise I hear from the rear diff is a little whine on decel, not the death whine, but you can hear it working if that makes sense, it also stiffened up the rear end a lot & helps eliminate some drive shaft slop.
investigate the safety issue but overall it's a great mod and worth the little extra noise IMO.
Watch Fight Club if you want to see why a manufacturer would not offer a safety recall for a product that fails, cost....
I have this along with the aluminum diff side mounts, Road Race Aluminum motor mounts, Driveshaft solid mounts - rides stiff, shifts better and is a fair amount louder in the inside but the major noise increase comes from the motor mounts. The only noise I hear from the rear diff is a little whine on decel, not the death whine, but you can hear it working if that makes sense, it also stiffened up the rear end a lot & helps eliminate some drive shaft slop.
investigate the safety issue but overall it's a great mod and worth the little extra noise IMO.
Watch Fight Club if you want to see why a manufacturer would not offer a safety recall for a product that fails, cost....
Oct 10, 2009, 04:57 PM
#26
Well, mine has been rock solid and I've got one of the most abused BR mustache bars out there. I do a burnout on every single pass too. I'm not sure if I have the newer or older one. Its been in the car a year?? But I am sure DB will look into the issue. He is a stand up guy. Sorry to hear some had issues... But keep in mind when you mod you run risks.
Oct 10, 2009, 06:48 PM
#27
Great posts covr4 and 9sec9. Once again though important information has been left out.
Yes, some of the original mustache bars cracked/broke in the center support. All of which were replaced free of charge. I have the very first one on my RS, it has no broken or been replaced for reference though.
In 9sec9's case he is not telling the entire story. He originally installed our side diff. supports and did not like the fitment. While doing so he cross thread the bolt that holds the side diff support in place. As you can see the bolt in the side stock diff support is missing. That is because it was stripped and pulled the bolt out of the threads. HAD the side diff support been installed correctly without the cross threaded/stripped bolt nothing would have happened when the mustache bar broke, actually, had the bolt not pulled out of the thread the mustache bar would not have failed either.
Think I am full of it? Take a look at AMS's mustache eliminator. It has a small single mount in the center, do you seriously think based on that mount that the mustache bar is there to keep the rear diff from twisting? No it is not. That is the job of the side diff supports and Tom stripped his bolt in his which is what caused the failure.
Looks to me like someone's mad that their new tires suck and are trying to start problems.
Yes, some of the original mustache bars cracked/broke in the center support. All of which were replaced free of charge. I have the very first one on my RS, it has no broken or been replaced for reference though.
In 9sec9's case he is not telling the entire story. He originally installed our side diff. supports and did not like the fitment. While doing so he cross thread the bolt that holds the side diff support in place. As you can see the bolt in the side stock diff support is missing. That is because it was stripped and pulled the bolt out of the threads. HAD the side diff support been installed correctly without the cross threaded/stripped bolt nothing would have happened when the mustache bar broke, actually, had the bolt not pulled out of the thread the mustache bar would not have failed either.
Think I am full of it? Take a look at AMS's mustache eliminator. It has a small single mount in the center, do you seriously think based on that mount that the mustache bar is there to keep the rear diff from twisting? No it is not. That is the job of the side diff supports and Tom stripped his bolt in his which is what caused the failure.
Looks to me like someone's mad that their new tires suck and are trying to start problems.
Oct 10, 2009, 06:59 PM
#28
Sorry, I got some fired up by the blatant lies I forgot to answer some questions.
We did warranty any cracked bars free of charge. Also around last October is when we realized there was an issue and when we did the chassis shop that builds these for us over doubled the plating used for the triangle plate and also welded in extra gussets to that area. Not a single cracked or broken part since then.
We did warranty any cracked bars free of charge. Also around last October is when we realized there was an issue and when we did the chassis shop that builds these for us over doubled the plating used for the triangle plate and also welded in extra gussets to that area. Not a single cracked or broken part since then.
Oct 10, 2009, 07:33 PM
#29
Amazing how PART of the truth is remembered. Filrst, my PARTIAL install was at my house, which you never saw. It was the drivers side I installed first, NO BIND. The ATTEMPT to install the passenger side was not completed (or the bolt installed for that matter) because it WOULDN'T EVEN LINE UP CORRECTLY. Your original mounts were not made correctly and as you know, Daniel told you that too. So your THEORY based on my conversation with you concerning why I wasn't using the side supports is in error. Maybe I could post some pics of the new one that you installed to prove that it also began to bend and show signs of fatigue. By the way, if the support wasn't failing, why did you redesign it? Other failures also occurred as you mentioned. Again, the PASSENGER SIDE is the side that didn't line up, so I un-installed the driver side and re-installed the OEM pieces. YOU NEVER SAW the install/attempted install of the supports since it occurred at my house. Nice try, but I think I have pics of the alignment issues too. I'm good at documenting things, I just don't always show all my cards.
Oct 10, 2009, 07:41 PM
#30
You are absolutely correct, I did not witness it, you told me you messed up the threads after it broke, but now you forget............
I already said we had them crack/break and that all were replaced. Your reading but not grasping what I already said.
I like how a year after the failure you pop up to say it is a safety issue and want to warn the public. Luckily the public as a whole is not as ignorant as you think. IF it was a safety issue why is it you waited a year to post about it? Let's get to the bottom line of it just being nasty.
The original prototype diff supports did not line up perfectly, correct, they are on the badbish and have been there since the first set was produced. Mine are not stripped. Mechanics aren't your best quality, which is why we built two complete record setting cars for you. As you said, the passenger side is the side you had problems with, as can be seen in the picture. You also told me you cross threaded the bolt as I've already said. Deny it now but it's a lie. As I also pointed out, and most of these EVOm members are smart enough to see it, the mustache bar does NOT keep the rear end from twisting out of the car, the side supports do and that's why AMS's kit can get by with a small single bolt in the center with no mustache bar at all. It's not rocket science.
Just don't come out a year later and play, "I want to inform people of a safety issue" and forget to mention you can't thread a bolt in straight.
It's obvious after a year has passed and you and your buddy covr4 pop up with this crap you are just pissed off and looking to cause problems, it has nothing to do with anyone's safety.
If you want to talk about safety, let's talk about the Wilson V2's that after Wilson took the freeze plug out of the end of the intakes to port them and then re-installed the old soft plug. Remember how they blew out and put the engine at 10,000+ RPM?! Oh yes, that was a good time. Luckily for me I was smart enough to kill the ignition and so were the other two guys. Anyone doubt this statement, look at the V2's how they have a welded aluminum plug in the end where the stock freeze plug was. Yes, let's talk safety.....
I too have a few aces. I also have a set of drag radials that work, if you want to borrow a set of Mickey Thompsons..........well I won't loan them out but you can get them at Summit.
I already said we had them crack/break and that all were replaced. Your reading but not grasping what I already said.
I like how a year after the failure you pop up to say it is a safety issue and want to warn the public. Luckily the public as a whole is not as ignorant as you think. IF it was a safety issue why is it you waited a year to post about it? Let's get to the bottom line of it just being nasty.
The original prototype diff supports did not line up perfectly, correct, they are on the badbish and have been there since the first set was produced. Mine are not stripped. Mechanics aren't your best quality, which is why we built two complete record setting cars for you. As you said, the passenger side is the side you had problems with, as can be seen in the picture. You also told me you cross threaded the bolt as I've already said. Deny it now but it's a lie. As I also pointed out, and most of these EVOm members are smart enough to see it, the mustache bar does NOT keep the rear end from twisting out of the car, the side supports do and that's why AMS's kit can get by with a small single bolt in the center with no mustache bar at all. It's not rocket science.
Just don't come out a year later and play, "I want to inform people of a safety issue" and forget to mention you can't thread a bolt in straight.
It's obvious after a year has passed and you and your buddy covr4 pop up with this crap you are just pissed off and looking to cause problems, it has nothing to do with anyone's safety.
If you want to talk about safety, let's talk about the Wilson V2's that after Wilson took the freeze plug out of the end of the intakes to port them and then re-installed the old soft plug. Remember how they blew out and put the engine at 10,000+ RPM?! Oh yes, that was a good time. Luckily for me I was smart enough to kill the ignition and so were the other two guys. Anyone doubt this statement, look at the V2's how they have a welded aluminum plug in the end where the stock freeze plug was. Yes, let's talk safety.....
I too have a few aces. I also have a set of drag radials that work, if you want to borrow a set of Mickey Thompsons..........well I won't loan them out but you can get them at Summit.
Last edited by David Buschur; Oct 10, 2009 at 07:54 PM.