Fp Red vs Fp Black Direct Swap #'s
There's not much data yet, FP hasn't even shipped out the customer versions yet, they said several times earlier this week that they will ship out in two weeks.
Since they use the same hotside, it would be a SUPER easy swap for someone with the CHRA and comp. Just unbolt it from the turbine housing, leave manifold, o2 housing, exhaust all in place, just unbolt oil and coolant lines, intake, and outlet pipe to LICP coupler. Out with the RED CHRA, in with the BLACK CHRA. I did this when i installed my IX turbo on my 05 (already had 10.5 hotside), and if I ever upgrade to BBK-XL from orig BBK, I'll do the same. Direct swap at high boost on high octane fuel should see around 9% power increase, based on the numbers Buschur, 9sec9, and FP have produced so far. Time will tell though
Since they use the same hotside, it would be a SUPER easy swap for someone with the CHRA and comp. Just unbolt it from the turbine housing, leave manifold, o2 housing, exhaust all in place, just unbolt oil and coolant lines, intake, and outlet pipe to LICP coupler. Out with the RED CHRA, in with the BLACK CHRA. I did this when i installed my IX turbo on my 05 (already had 10.5 hotside), and if I ever upgrade to BBK-XL from orig BBK, I'll do the same. Direct swap at high boost on high octane fuel should see around 9% power increase, based on the numbers Buschur, 9sec9, and FP have produced so far. Time will tell though
There's not much data yet, FP hasn't even shipped out the customer versions yet, they said several times earlier this week that they will ship out in two weeks.
Since they use the same hotside, it would be a SUPER easy swap for someone with the CHRA and comp. Just unbolt it from the turbine housing, leave manifold, o2 housing, exhaust all in place, just unbolt oil and coolant lines, intake, and outlet pipe to LICP coupler. Out with the RED CHRA, in with the BLACK CHRA. I did this when i installed my IX turbo on my 05 (already had 10.5 hotside), and if I ever upgrade to BBK-XL from orig BBK, I'll do the same. Direct swap at high boost on high octane fuel should see around 9% power increase, based on the numbers Buschur, 9sec9, and FP have produced so far. Time will tell though
Since they use the same hotside, it would be a SUPER easy swap for someone with the CHRA and comp. Just unbolt it from the turbine housing, leave manifold, o2 housing, exhaust all in place, just unbolt oil and coolant lines, intake, and outlet pipe to LICP coupler. Out with the RED CHRA, in with the BLACK CHRA. I did this when i installed my IX turbo on my 05 (already had 10.5 hotside), and if I ever upgrade to BBK-XL from orig BBK, I'll do the same. Direct swap at high boost on high octane fuel should see around 9% power increase, based on the numbers Buschur, 9sec9, and FP have produced so far. Time will tell though
Mikey
Last edited by BLKCarbonEVO; Oct 23, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
Port the hell out of it and hope for the best. No one will know anything until we start seeing more dyno plots with good info behind them.
Oh, this brings up a good point. Remember how people were so amped up about the HTA Green? Still have only a couple of results from it. I'm guessing it will be 2-3 months before we start to really see any results from the black apart from this initial testing. Should be fun reading over xmas!
Oh, this brings up a good point. Remember how people were so amped up about the HTA Green? Still have only a couple of results from it. I'm guessing it will be 2-3 months before we start to really see any results from the black apart from this initial testing. Should be fun reading over xmas!
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Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Ashburn, VA
Buschur Racing stated: 64whp and 37lbs torque over Red with just swap!
Well there's been a lot of rumors circulating. Speculations and expectations, today the wait is finally over.
FP Evo Black HTA82 is finally here!
Specs on the turbo:
68 lb/mn compressor put inside FP's custom compressor cover with surge port. This is the same new cover being used on the Red's that elminate compressor sure and use a 3.25" inlet.
On the turbine side the turbo uses a 67mm turbine wheel, this is 1mm smaller than the GT35r turbine wheel. It uses a modified stock 10.5 EVO turbine housing.
All of the turbos come standard with the heavy duty actuator and the new oil feed line kit. Pricing is set at $1999. Oil line kit is not pictured.
At the bottom of this page you will find the options of porting which is HIGHLY recommended and also to add a turbo outlet pipe. The porting is standard and will be automatically selected so you will need to select that you do not want it if you do not. The turbo outlet pipe will be needed if you do not currently have a Evo 9 based turbo on your Evo 8.
The comparison below is this car on the Red and then on the Black. Yes, some of you will ask "What does it make on a stock car? What does it make on pump gas? What does it make at 20 psi?" My answer before it's even brought up is I don't know until it is done and tested. For now my testing has been on E85, full build and high boost, that's it and any speculation as to what it will make on a lesser set up with less boost will be answered with "LESS POWER AND LESS TORQUE".
Both of the runs below were done at 40 psi of boost. The timing was held consistent and the AFR's (using gas ratios was, 11.8:1 AFR).
The bottom line is the turbo when keeping the tune and boost "the same" was good for 64 whp and 37 ft lbs of torque. As you will see in the graph below the spool up is extremely close with very little lost in low end power. Substantial gains were made from 4500 rpm up.
This is on there website: https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1427
Well there's been a lot of rumors circulating. Speculations and expectations, today the wait is finally over.
FP Evo Black HTA82 is finally here!
Specs on the turbo:
68 lb/mn compressor put inside FP's custom compressor cover with surge port. This is the same new cover being used on the Red's that elminate compressor sure and use a 3.25" inlet.
On the turbine side the turbo uses a 67mm turbine wheel, this is 1mm smaller than the GT35r turbine wheel. It uses a modified stock 10.5 EVO turbine housing.
All of the turbos come standard with the heavy duty actuator and the new oil feed line kit. Pricing is set at $1999. Oil line kit is not pictured.
At the bottom of this page you will find the options of porting which is HIGHLY recommended and also to add a turbo outlet pipe. The porting is standard and will be automatically selected so you will need to select that you do not want it if you do not. The turbo outlet pipe will be needed if you do not currently have a Evo 9 based turbo on your Evo 8.
The comparison below is this car on the Red and then on the Black. Yes, some of you will ask "What does it make on a stock car? What does it make on pump gas? What does it make at 20 psi?" My answer before it's even brought up is I don't know until it is done and tested. For now my testing has been on E85, full build and high boost, that's it and any speculation as to what it will make on a lesser set up with less boost will be answered with "LESS POWER AND LESS TORQUE".
Both of the runs below were done at 40 psi of boost. The timing was held consistent and the AFR's (using gas ratios was, 11.8:1 AFR).
The bottom line is the turbo when keeping the tune and boost "the same" was good for 64 whp and 37 ft lbs of torque. As you will see in the graph below the spool up is extremely close with very little lost in low end power. Substantial gains were made from 4500 rpm up.
This is on there website: https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1427
Trending Topics
Wow! The plot certainly thickens as we await the BBK-XL. It surely is a nice thing to be a part of the EVO community these days! Awesome work for all involved for continuing to push the stardards higher.
Buschur Racing stated: 64whp and 37lbs torque over Red with just swap!
Well there's been a lot of rumors circulating. Speculations and expectations, today the wait is finally over.
FP Evo Black HTA82 is finally here!
Specs on the turbo:
68 lb/mn compressor put inside FP's custom compressor cover with surge port. This is the same new cover being used on the Red's that elminate compressor sure and use a 3.25" inlet.
On the turbine side the turbo uses a 67mm turbine wheel, this is 1mm smaller than the GT35r turbine wheel. It uses a modified stock 10.5 EVO turbine housing.
All of the turbos come standard with the heavy duty actuator and the new oil feed line kit. Pricing is set at $1999. Oil line kit is not pictured.
At the bottom of this page you will find the options of porting which is HIGHLY recommended and also to add a turbo outlet pipe. The porting is standard and will be automatically selected so you will need to select that you do not want it if you do not. The turbo outlet pipe will be needed if you do not currently have a Evo 9 based turbo on your Evo 8.
The comparison below is this car on the Red and then on the Black. Yes, some of you will ask "What does it make on a stock car? What does it make on pump gas? What does it make at 20 psi?" My answer before it's even brought up is I don't know until it is done and tested. For now my testing has been on E85, full build and high boost, that's it and any speculation as to what it will make on a lesser set up with less boost will be answered with "LESS POWER AND LESS TORQUE".
Both of the runs below were done at 40 psi of boost. The timing was held consistent and the AFR's (using gas ratios was, 11.8:1 AFR).
The bottom line is the turbo when keeping the tune and boost "the same" was good for 64 whp and 37 ft lbs of torque. As you will see in the graph below the spool up is extremely close with very little lost in low end power. Substantial gains were made from 4500 rpm up.
This is on there website: https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1427
Well there's been a lot of rumors circulating. Speculations and expectations, today the wait is finally over.
FP Evo Black HTA82 is finally here!
Specs on the turbo:
68 lb/mn compressor put inside FP's custom compressor cover with surge port. This is the same new cover being used on the Red's that elminate compressor sure and use a 3.25" inlet.
On the turbine side the turbo uses a 67mm turbine wheel, this is 1mm smaller than the GT35r turbine wheel. It uses a modified stock 10.5 EVO turbine housing.
All of the turbos come standard with the heavy duty actuator and the new oil feed line kit. Pricing is set at $1999. Oil line kit is not pictured.
At the bottom of this page you will find the options of porting which is HIGHLY recommended and also to add a turbo outlet pipe. The porting is standard and will be automatically selected so you will need to select that you do not want it if you do not. The turbo outlet pipe will be needed if you do not currently have a Evo 9 based turbo on your Evo 8.
The comparison below is this car on the Red and then on the Black. Yes, some of you will ask "What does it make on a stock car? What does it make on pump gas? What does it make at 20 psi?" My answer before it's even brought up is I don't know until it is done and tested. For now my testing has been on E85, full build and high boost, that's it and any speculation as to what it will make on a lesser set up with less boost will be answered with "LESS POWER AND LESS TORQUE".
Both of the runs below were done at 40 psi of boost. The timing was held consistent and the AFR's (using gas ratios was, 11.8:1 AFR).
The bottom line is the turbo when keeping the tune and boost "the same" was good for 64 whp and 37 ft lbs of torque. As you will see in the graph below the spool up is extremely close with very little lost in low end power. Substantial gains were made from 4500 rpm up.
This is on there website: https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1427
I could talk all day about the Black but I'm done!
Mikey
Mikey
Good copy and paste! I don't give a **** how more more the Black makes over the red in "midrange" if the ****ing Black falls on it face at 6.8+ and matchs a Reds curve. Becaue when racing you race from 6-8k or 7-9k for some cars right where the Black may or may not make anymore power than the red. It uses the same turbine wheel as a red. It will only flow a certain lbs/min no mater how big of a compressor wheel it has. The turbine wheel is where the magic happens for "top-end" power. I don't believe the Black to beat a well prepped Red from 6-9k. Reason being, "theoriticly" the EGTs should be higher in the Black than the Red and both of them having the same usable shaft speed means the Black would start blowing "hot air" sooner than the Red and suffer more in topend than the Red!
I could talk all day about the Black but I'm done!
Mikey
I could talk all day about the Black but I'm done!
Mikey
No Mikey's not done. I know he can't wait to keep talking! 
So let's say that the Black and the Red have identical curves above 6 (I think it was actually 7k that the black starts to show signs of top-end fade compared to the red in Buschur's testing). For 50 dollars difference, wouldn't you like the bigger torque off the line, and the better midrange? I know you likes your torque, Mikey!
As some people have said, if you already have a well built setup that works with the Red, there isn't much reason to jump on the Black, certainly not based on the limited information that is out there.
So let's say that the Black and the Red have identical curves above 6 (I think it was actually 7k that the black starts to show signs of top-end fade compared to the red in Buschur's testing). For 50 dollars difference, wouldn't you like the bigger torque off the line, and the better midrange? I know you likes your torque, Mikey!
As some people have said, if you already have a well built setup that works with the Red, there isn't much reason to jump on the Black, certainly not based on the limited information that is out there.
Rockman - if you look at the curve that DB posted the black curve starts to tail down at the very end. Eric (R/TErnie) asked DB whether the black and the red meet somewhere down the line, say above 8k, and DB said that is very theoretically possible (I'm not quoting, just paraphrasing based off memory, so apologies if I get anything incorrect).
I think Mike is talking to that info plus general physics dynamics when he is discussing the above. I think Mike is just trying to convince himself not to buy one!
I think Mike is talking to that info plus general physics dynamics when he is discussing the above. I think Mike is just trying to convince himself not to buy one!
No Mikey's not done. I know he can't wait to keep talking!
So let's say that the Black and the Red have identical curves above 6 (I think it was actually 7k that the black starts to show signs of top-end fade compared to the red in Buschur's testing). For 50 dollars difference, wouldn't you like the bigger torque off the line, and the better midrange? I know you likes your torque, Mikey!
As some people have said, if you already have a well built setup that works with the Red, there isn't much reason to jump on the Black, certainly not based on the limited information that is out there.
So let's say that the Black and the Red have identical curves above 6 (I think it was actually 7k that the black starts to show signs of top-end fade compared to the red in Buschur's testing). For 50 dollars difference, wouldn't you like the bigger torque off the line, and the better midrange? I know you likes your torque, Mikey!
As some people have said, if you already have a well built setup that works with the Red, there isn't much reason to jump on the Black, certainly not based on the limited information that is out there.
Personally I'm excited for the Black. I think in your case it makes sense to go for the black, especially if you can line someone up to buy your never used Red for a good price. I think selling the red for a good price will be harder to do as time progresses, especially when the black's are officially released. People won't be selling their reds for $800, like some would think, but I imagine some people will start selling them for $1500 or even less.
BTW - I think the tail-down on the black started happening at 7k, which would be closer to where you would probably shift with your 2.3L!
BTW - I think the tail-down on the black started happening at 7k, which would be closer to where you would probably shift with your 2.3L!