Yes indeed...that has a potential destiny in some Rally projects that are being kicked around

aaron

 

If you guys decide to go that route give G-man a call up at 2020...

 

Wow I didn't know that. That's cool!

Mikey

 

This is great news!

 

please don't tell me i need to learn to drive. haha.
if you really know anything about trannies then you should know that's not the only way to get heat into that part. i don't rest my hand on the shifter and have plenty of in-car vid to prove that but i do think it comes from rushing shifts and putting extra load on the fork and you don't have to be banging off syncros to still put a side load on the fork. both times we pulled the box apart for the rebuild the syncros were perfect.

also i've never had a problem with the 5-speed in my previous car(viii) or the 5-speed after i swapped in the current car and my driving style has never changed.

it's the difference in wall thickness that's the issue and that's letting the heat get the best of it. i warps just enough to bind up.


also my opinion as far as gearing goes and 5 vs. 6 gears. i loved the 6-speed on the street and thought i would on track(road course) but there's just too much rowing and giving up time. with any decent power, the taller 5-speed with a better ratio(like jdm 5th) from 4th to 5th is quicker. as long as you don't run out of gear at a fast(long straight) track like cal speedway, miller, or big willow(you can always change r&p as well to get top speed back) you will pick up time with less shifting. even to the point where i've found it's quicker to lug the motor a bit through a corner to save a gear change. the butt dyno won't believe it as it sure doesn't "feel" faster, but the data doesn't lie. so erik you may want to do a bit more research before committing to the 6-speed if you're building for a tt car. again just my opinion.

and if anyone wants to buy a 6-speed i have a brand new zero mile rebuild sitting at the shop that i don't see ever going back in my car.

 

Smack, once that slider is engaged to the gear there it does not move. It is attached to the gear at that point. Thats how gears are engaged. The only place there is friction on slider is the where the fork rubs against it. with hand off shifter the fork is centered in the slider, no friction. If you rest your hand on shifter the fork rubs on slider. You can clearly see the wear on the fork in the picture. You can claim you drive correct all you want. The picture tells a different story.
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But isn't pressure is being applied to the fork during each shift? Wouldn't that be the primary source of wear?

 

What I found on mine is it wasnt resting my hand on it, it was dragracing and being "zealous" on the shift with a clutch that didnt like to shift. Brickwalling it will create even more heat even faster.

There are 2 ways to skin a cat and while it comes to the same thing its not the same cause.

 

I dont build setups that dont shift so I cant comment on how much you are trying to force a shift or brickwalling it as you say. good shifts only take .15-.04 seconds. and lock out is just as brief. No way any appreciable amount of heat is created during that short of time. I say I drive my cars as hard as anybody else. I dont wear out shift forks. But I have many customers who do wear out forks and cause sliders to turn blue.. I am certain my diagnosis of the problem is spot on. short shifters can also cause this problem. if they are not designed with new shorter shifter stops.

 

6 speeds only have the one "short shifter" option that WORKS devised of relocating the shift linkage pins.

Mine actually burred the slider and busted a spring. Locked out 6th gear until it got fixed, but there wasnt any shift fork problem. Pushing the stock clutch as far as I did is what caused that particular problem. There was heat in the hub, but I know that I wasnt resting my hand on the shifter. It had something like 270 passes on it so I am assuming the discoloration was over time.

 

first let me say that the picture is from some other person(voidhawk) that had the same type of issue with his trans. i had this warping type of issue as well although we didn't see the blueing of the slider or nearly as much wear on the fork. we only saw the warping. i think that bluing and fork damage comes from continuing to force the slider to go once it starts to bind up. i knew what the problem was so once i felt extra resistance i just pitting the car and didn't continue damaging it.

the situation you are describing is on street and i completely agree that's the only way to get that heat buildup happen but on track it's a different story.

take a lap at infineon. my lap is a 1:44.7 so let just call it 105 seconds a lap. now i shift 15 time per lap so that equates to one shift every 7 seconds and these aren't lazy shift as i'm trying to lose as little time as possible between shifts so you're definitely putting loads on the fork quite often with not much time to cool. and you're doing this for 20-30 minutes at a time. sure i could shift slower and give up time and this would cause less heat build up and save the box. the problem is even if i only added a tenth of a second a shift, that adds a second and a half to your lap. not ideal in a time trial situation. or i could just go to a 5-speed that has proven it can handle this type of abuse.

i've made my decision and have multiple track records because of it.
others can make their own choice as to what's most important to them.

also it's funny about the mention of short shifters because i ran the works short shifter the first time the trans broke. once we got the box apart and saw the failure i knew immediately that the shifter was adding to this load issue so i pulled it thinking that should cure the problem. the trans did make it a few more sessions on the stock shifter but still died by the end of the day unfortunately.

 

Seems like it would be a cool deal if these upgrades fix the problem for street driving. On the other hand, I plan on tracking my VIII full time when I can afford to pick up a X for daily driving, so if the five speed is more reliable and quicker through the laps then...

 

The five speed won't be quicker and more reliable through the laps if this all works out. The whole benefit to this is the better and stronger gears down low which would make this transmission ideal for autocross and road race applications. The members who were discussing the final drive earlier also raised a good point, that with the revised gear set this transmission might be able to break the 200mph barrier.

If this option pans out to fix all the 6 problems, and is somewhat affordable, this will rewrite the book on what owners think of their stock 6 speed transmission. The 6 will be a very desirable option.

 

I think I'll leave my final decision until Shep releases his results...but I am hoping that the 6sp will work out

 

^^^^ agreed