Some current oil analysis info, ongoing testing.
RWD - Alright so longevity is kinda what I am trying to figure out. Since I dont drive the car much on the street, most of the time on the oil is from racing. So its hard for me to go by mileage. What I am trying to figure out is how many races I can go before its actually time to change the oil. My past 3 results have had about the same amount of events on each oil change but say one oil change had 1500 miles on it, the next had 3000 miles. I really dont think the 1500 mile difference had any affect on the results. Right now, I am averaging 4 auto-x events per oil change and 1000-2000 miles. I am going to try 6 events and maybe 2000-3000 miles next time and see what it does. Pretty sure I will be sticking with the Lucas oil thats in it now since I get it for about the same price as T6. That should help keep my results consistent with the only variables being events/mileage on the oil.
I just hate throwing away money. Not that 7qts of Rotella is THAT expensive, but I hate wasting.
That is literally what oil testing can answer for you.
This copy/paste from an FB post, linked below. This is all info that I have assumed about rotella T6 for a long time, and have always told guys you shouldn't be running a Diesel engine oil in you gas engine. You can say it "works fine" all you want, but that doesn't change that it isn't right. Link to FB post is at the bottom.
Also, the concern of "throwing money away" regarding oil changes. What's more expensive- an engine or a few extra oil changes every year?
A word to those running Rotella T6 and other HDEOs in gasoline engines because some loudmouth on BITOG or some forum told you to. Don't. I used to tell this to people all the time; that HDEOs don't belong in gasoline engines, but I've learned a lot more lately as to specifically why that is the case.
Reason 1: Primary ZDDP. What most people just call Zinc, ZDDP is an additive package in oil that is known for anti-wear properties. I'll spare you the science behind ZDDP decomposition tiers and the nature of boundary lubrication, but what you have to realize is that there are 200+ formulations of ZDDP and they are not all equal. They come in two main categories: primary and secondary. Primary ZDDP is used mostly as an antioxidant to fight oxidative thickening in engine oils in high-heat applications, of which there are plenty in diesel engines, and is also geared more for lower friction coefficient. By contrast, gasoline engines either use mostly secondary ZDDP with some primary, or exclusively secondary (which is the case of higher quality oils), and is geared more for tribofilm formulation. Basically, your 1200ppm of Zinc in Rotella T6 is not actually protecting better than 800ppm of Zinc API SN spec synthetic oil and certainly not better than a high secondary ZDDP formulated gasoline engine oil.
Reason 2: Anti-foaming. Also referred to as air release, the oil has to release air pockets generated during friction and movement. Rotella is not very good at this, and that's OK when you are running a Detroit Diesel with a 2100RPM redline or even a 6.7 Powestroke with a 3400RPM redline (where the anti-foaming starts to become a bigger issue), not so much when you're running a Subaru FA20 with a 7400RPM redline. Under extended use, this can eventually aerate the fluid enough to cause catastrophic failure, or at minimum power loss.
Reason 3: Detergents/Dispersants. Diesel engines typically deal more with soot handling and dispersion, so the additive package is designed accordingly. On the other hand, gasoline engine detergent packs are designed more to handle acidity. This discrepancy can also result in reduced performance in gasoline engines as the detergent tries to clean the cylinder walls, which compromises the seal between rings and cylinder walls and reduces compression and efficiency.
Reason 4: The other day someone challenged me to post oil analysis reports of Rotella T6 shearing (thinning) in viscosity. I did a google image search for Rotella T6 (virgin viscosity of 14.9 cSt) and struggled to find a single oil analysis that was actually in-spect! In fact, I'd say 9/10 oil analysis reports showed that it had sheared in viscosity. If you're looking for a high quality base oil with additives that don't shear in viscosity, this isn't your best option.
Now I'm sure I'll get the classic "I've been using this oil and nothing has blown up yet" rhetoric by people who are too cheap to consider better options like AMSOIL, Driven Racing, Motul, and Schaeffer, but that doesn't mean that the product doesn't have its deficiencies simply because you want it to work. I realize people have a higher tendency to believe information that they agree with regarding a cheaper product than a more expensive one, but unless you already knew everything I presented in this post, you ought to reconsider your lubricant choice in gasoline engines (especially high-revving and turbo gasoline engines). There are far better options on the market that will protect better and make more power.
Feel free to share wherever appropriate.
Resources:
https://link.springer.com/article/10...249-016-0706-7
https://link.springer.com/article/10...44495.26882.b5
https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE...0Additives.pdf
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...cant-additives
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...l-engine-oils-
https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE...tionOfZDDP.pdf
Also, the concern of "throwing money away" regarding oil changes. What's more expensive- an engine or a few extra oil changes every year?
Originally Posted by Andrei Pop on Facebook
A word to those running Rotella T6 and other HDEOs in gasoline engines because some loudmouth on BITOG or some forum told you to. Don't. I used to tell this to people all the time; that HDEOs don't belong in gasoline engines, but I've learned a lot more lately as to specifically why that is the case.
Reason 1: Primary ZDDP. What most people just call Zinc, ZDDP is an additive package in oil that is known for anti-wear properties. I'll spare you the science behind ZDDP decomposition tiers and the nature of boundary lubrication, but what you have to realize is that there are 200+ formulations of ZDDP and they are not all equal. They come in two main categories: primary and secondary. Primary ZDDP is used mostly as an antioxidant to fight oxidative thickening in engine oils in high-heat applications, of which there are plenty in diesel engines, and is also geared more for lower friction coefficient. By contrast, gasoline engines either use mostly secondary ZDDP with some primary, or exclusively secondary (which is the case of higher quality oils), and is geared more for tribofilm formulation. Basically, your 1200ppm of Zinc in Rotella T6 is not actually protecting better than 800ppm of Zinc API SN spec synthetic oil and certainly not better than a high secondary ZDDP formulated gasoline engine oil.
Reason 2: Anti-foaming. Also referred to as air release, the oil has to release air pockets generated during friction and movement. Rotella is not very good at this, and that's OK when you are running a Detroit Diesel with a 2100RPM redline or even a 6.7 Powestroke with a 3400RPM redline (where the anti-foaming starts to become a bigger issue), not so much when you're running a Subaru FA20 with a 7400RPM redline. Under extended use, this can eventually aerate the fluid enough to cause catastrophic failure, or at minimum power loss.
Reason 3: Detergents/Dispersants. Diesel engines typically deal more with soot handling and dispersion, so the additive package is designed accordingly. On the other hand, gasoline engine detergent packs are designed more to handle acidity. This discrepancy can also result in reduced performance in gasoline engines as the detergent tries to clean the cylinder walls, which compromises the seal between rings and cylinder walls and reduces compression and efficiency.
Reason 4: The other day someone challenged me to post oil analysis reports of Rotella T6 shearing (thinning) in viscosity. I did a google image search for Rotella T6 (virgin viscosity of 14.9 cSt) and struggled to find a single oil analysis that was actually in-spect! In fact, I'd say 9/10 oil analysis reports showed that it had sheared in viscosity. If you're looking for a high quality base oil with additives that don't shear in viscosity, this isn't your best option.
Now I'm sure I'll get the classic "I've been using this oil and nothing has blown up yet" rhetoric by people who are too cheap to consider better options like AMSOIL, Driven Racing, Motul, and Schaeffer, but that doesn't mean that the product doesn't have its deficiencies simply because you want it to work. I realize people have a higher tendency to believe information that they agree with regarding a cheaper product than a more expensive one, but unless you already knew everything I presented in this post, you ought to reconsider your lubricant choice in gasoline engines (especially high-revving and turbo gasoline engines). There are far better options on the market that will protect better and make more power.
Feel free to share wherever appropriate.
https://link.springer.com/article/10...249-016-0706-7
https://link.springer.com/article/10...44495.26882.b5
https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE...0Additives.pdf
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...cant-additives
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...l-engine-oils-
https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE...tionOfZDDP.pdf
Facebook Post
LGTD - Funny you posted that. On comment #4 it brings up the viscosity thinning. Well on my very first oil report when I ran T6, Blackstone said that the oil did indeed thin out.... None of my other oil choices have done the same. Looks like I will be sticking to Lucas for sure.
Stupid question but why are people even running Rotella? Like I do not understand the logic behind it. I run a 100% synthetic in my evo and yes its more expensive than an off the shelf M1. But on that note if its from a cost savings perspective, you can get a 5qt jug of M1 or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum at wallyworld for $25. Literally $5/qt which by my definition is very inexpensive. So again why bother with anything else if your intentions are to save money?
Originally Posted by Lumpy Sticks
LGTD - Funny you posted that. On comment #4 it brings up the viscosity thinning. Well on my very first oil report when I ran T6, Blackstone said that the oil did indeed thin out.... None of my other oil choices have done the same. Looks like I will be sticking to Lucas for sure.
Stupid question but why are people even running Rotella? Like I do not understand the logic behind it. I run a 100% synthetic in my evo and yes its more expensive than an off the shelf M1. But on that note if its from a cost savings perspective, you can get a 5qt jug of M1 or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum at wallyworld for $25. Literally $5/qt which by my definition is very inexpensive. So again why bother with anything else if your intentions are to save money?
i recently sent in 2 samples - my evo sample on redline 5w30 with 3 track days and 5 or so autuoxes, and my m3 sample with redline race 50wt & similar usage. i'll post when i get them back
Stupid question but why are people even running Rotella? Like I do not understand the logic behind it. I run a 100% synthetic in my evo and yes its more expensive than an off the shelf M1. But on that note if its from a cost savings perspective, you can get a 5qt jug of M1 or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum at wallyworld for $25. Literally $5/qt which by my definition is very inexpensive. So again why bother with anything else if your intentions are to save money?
Running Rotella really isnt cheap. Some people dont realize that diesel oil jugs are only a gallon not 5 quarts like normal car oil jugs. So most of the time, I would buy 3 jugs at a time to do 2 oil changes. So like you said you can get Penzoil (5qt) for $25 or a gallon of Rotella for $25 but then still need another quart....
Stupid question but why are people even running Rotella? Like I do not understand the logic behind it. I run a 100% synthetic in my evo and yes its more expensive than an off the shelf M1. But on that note if its from a cost savings perspective, you can get a 5qt jug of M1 or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum at wallyworld for $25. Literally $5/qt which by my definition is very inexpensive. So again why bother with anything else if your intentions are to save money?
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 153
Likes: 11
From: Mattawan, MI
Might want to consider moving to a 5w40 or 50 oil if copper wear stays high. 30 weight may not provide adequate oil film thickness at high loads.
Here are some valuable articles for everyone to read:
https://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/do...ngine_bearings
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/dok...ngine_bearings
Here are some valuable articles for everyone to read:
https://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/do...ngine_bearings
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/dok...ngine_bearings
I want to say the journal bearing in stock turbo is copper, so it could aslo be that on its way out.
But I agree, the engine should have an Xw50 oil in for track days. 10w30 worked/was spec'd by mitsu for when the car made 80-100whp less in stock form.
But I agree, the engine should have an Xw50 oil in for track days. 10w30 worked/was spec'd by mitsu for when the car made 80-100whp less in stock form.
just circling back to this. with similar usage, the redline 30wt (thin 10w30) showed no copper wear, so they do something really well with film strength in that oil. I'll probably switch to that one full time, maybe with one quart of 40wt in it, and see how that goes.