If I take two cars that make 300 horsepower... but borg warner's car weighs 2000 pounds and garrett's weighs 3000 pounds.

Minimum vehicle weight is 2600 pounds. So borg warner can add 600 pounds of lead ballast where ever they want...

Which car is going to be faster? How do you know this? The fundamentals of physics F=ma dictate the winner here. Same reason why I think the BW EFR is going to perform well.

 

R/TErnie, FWIW, there is a post or two out there on other forums from a Garrett engineering talking about how Garrett did plenty of testing on TiAl turbine wheels 10+ years ago for full race turbochargers. He claimed they did not go TiAl because they couldn't hold up to the abuse of anti-lag.

People should realize the TiAl material is not new and it's safe to say Borg Warner is not the first to look into using it for turbine wheels. Simply put, it may not be the best option for wheel material with the current technology available.

AFAIK, the issue is how you bond it to the chromoly turbine shaft. Mitsubishi uses a thin hybrid alloy that splits the difference in expansion rates between the TiAl wheel and the CrM shaft to "soften" the stresses due to thermal expansion. The material can be laser welded to the shaft but it has to be brazed to the turbine wheel.

To me, three dissimilar materials means a good chance for long term corrosion issues. The potential for corrosion + high temps + corrosive environment... It's bound to cause relaibility issues.

 

Borg Warner engineers patented almost every way you can imagine attaching a titanium aluminide turbine wheel to a steel shaft. if you visited the booth at sema, you can see that there is no magic alloy or brazing used to attach the two, the efr design is much stronger than that

 

I'm well aware it's not a new thing to the world of turbochargers. It is however a new thing that is available to the masses at an AFFORDABLE price WITH a warranty.
I was asking all the stock appearing turbo manufacturers to make me a turbo with a TiAL turbine wheel... I got crickets. So as available as you'd like to make it seem... it just isn't so.

Obviously their process is proprietary and has performed up to their expectations and durability testing.

I don't know about you.... but I don't run anti-lag and neither do 99% of the people I know who are buying aftermarket turbo's and going racing. The only person I know is Coulter @ ER... and he's just got a fetish with anti-lag.

That being said, they're (garrett) saying a product is invalid in a use case that the 99% won't ever see.

 

Its true, TiAl is less than ideal for anti-lag, but its not often street cars use anti-lag.


I have a picture of the compressor/bearing/turbine assembly. The wheel/shaft can be seen in the picture, but I should have taken one closer to really show how well its done.

 

"Magic alloy" is ridiculous to say because that's exactly how MHI did it. I'll look up the material when I get home.

Is there any info available on the process that BW uses for attaching the shaft? I'm very interested in how they are joining dissimilar materials.

Pics from booth of the IRL turbos?

Huh? Readily available, when did I say that? You can get the TME turbine easily though. Any stock-appearing turbo using the TME turbine could be built. Obviously it wouldn't flow any better then the standard TD05H turbine wheel though...

I disagree, as at this point, they have not proven to be reliable in use, for what ever reason.

My thought is simple, if it can't hold up to anti-lag even as well as an inconel wheel in race conditions, it probably won't be any stronger then an inconel wheel in normal conditions. Think of it as accelerated testing...

 

About the whole tial turbine wheel. Is this the same material mopar used in their stage 3 upgrade later to find out it couldnt take the heat created in the inefficient stock manifold. It actually wouls start to chip apart after being heated repeadetly past 1400 degrees

 

cast aluminum and mild steel can be welded together reliably, i dont see this being much trouble.

 

They can be "welded" together, but the joint has galvanic corrosion isues from all the data I've come across. It is by no means a reliable "weld" in the long term.

For the record, I'm not saying it can't be done. I am saying that it's not a trivial issue though.

 

I'll put it through it's paces... don't you worry.

 

Can't wait, as I've said a million times, I want to see it work. I'm just getting ready for disappointment though.

If it proves to do what they claim, then I'll be excited again. But I'm a fair weather fan.

If it proves to work though, I guess I'll have to build another setup because I already put my money on a Garrett product.

 

duh.. just because MHI did that doesnt mean BW is going to... what you are not aware of is the intricacies and downsides of that method.


none is public, but i can assure you its far easier/simpler/stronger than you think


speaking of IRL, they have been busy on track testing, racking up hundreds of hours track time. There has not been one single EFR turbo failure to date. There were other engine problems the indycars are finding with the brand new engine programs, but zero issues related to the turbos.

 

Geoff or anybody BW dealership

could You please answer my question
and I believe there are hundreds out there are having the same question

When will I get My 9180 EFR ?

I really need that in 1,15 divided T4

"soon" or "6-8 weeks" And "I will put You in the waiting list"
Is the answer I got so far

there is NO Solid ETA

please.......... I feel like already waiting for years

Thanks

 

Rumor has it that turbos will only be coming around June.

 

Of what year?