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E85, 2.3L... decisions decisions

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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 06:22 AM
  #16  
blackenedwings's Avatar
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From: Columbia, MD
Originally Posted by JohnBradley
I would switch to E85 for sure no matter what.

#1 higher octane always wins vs heat soak
#2 lower EGT is easier on parts and the cooling system

The main focus on switching motor size is RPM based. The tracks you run are you normally in the 140 (8500 in 4th for most cars) range where revving out 4th would be better than shifting to 5th? How much torque can you use coming out of corners? Is more going to help or hinder?

Luke road races (I dont really, I watch and tinker) with a 2.4 just fine. At Portland though the front straight he needs to grab 5th because of the RPM limit. Cure is changing the FD which is currently in the car but waiting some dry weather and a track. The feel on the street is longer legged in 1st and 2nd and then it feels more less like driving in a gear higher than you are.

I drive in "Germany" alot so what I do is different than normal road racing. I am always in 5th revved out if the track allows but it varies enough that its nothing I can really ever predict. Most of the driving is under 140 though so the long rod 2.4, my tire height, and stock gearing (VIII 4th but stock final drive) all allow me to do that with my rev limit at 8700.

Just some food for thought.

Aaron
Thanks for the response! I've been thinking about this a lot the last few days and I'm 99% sold on swapping to E85 with my stock block for now.

My home track is Summit Point, and on the built 5-spd I've found I need to shift into 5th for the front straight where I'm hitting 140-145 mph depending on how well I hit turn 10 and traffic. With my OEM 6-spd I actually would take turn 10 in 5th, but I have to take it at the top of 4th now. A change in motor will definitely require playing with things, but I don't mind that so much. I'm hoping to run a lot more at NJMP next year, which I've never been to before, so it will be learning from scratch anyway. The torque out of the corners... eh, its hard to say. There are a couple of turns on Summit Main where the instant hit of torque from the BBK gets me into a bit of trouble. That's normally where I start rolling on the power and get 200+ torque in a huge lump which is certainly um...exciting. Overall my current gearing is far superior to the OEM 6-spd and Shep didn't feel like I needed the final drive change for road racing.

Now.... roll racing with a higher displacement big turbo car... whole different ball game. There isn't much of that scene where I live, mostly due to the absolutely insane local enforcement, which is one of the big reasons I started investing in road racing. I love to go fast, and once you have carried 145 mph into a 90 degree right hander standing on the brakes as hard as you can; its hard to get as excited about drag racing.

Cool replies everyone... much appreciated.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 08:09 AM
  #17  
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From: In da streetz
NJMP is my home track. hit me up when you are heading there and I'll try and make it out.

FYI, you won't be able to run E85 @ NJMP unless you bring your own since there isn't a station close enough to that track. One guy in our group is on the corn now and he brought over 60 gallons with for a two day event. I believe he had to dial it back a little so he wouldn't run outta fuel. He's switching to 93 over the winter. With E85, if you're pushing hard at your power level you're probably going to consume almost a full tank in a 25 min session. on 93 I use just about 1/2 tank in that amount of time, but since I don't like to run lower than a 1/4 for fear of the fuel pump sucking air I have to fill up after every session.

Last edited by AlwaysinBoost; Nov 4, 2011 at 08:14 AM.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 08:41 AM
  #18  
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From: Columbia, MD
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
NJMP is my home track. hit me up when you are heading there and I'll try and make it out.

FYI, you won't be able to run E85 @ NJMP unless you bring your own since there isn't a station close enough to that track. One guy in our group is on the corn now and he brought over 60 gallons with for a two day event. I believe he had to dial it back a little so he wouldn't run outta fuel. He's switching to 93 over the winter. With E85, if you're pushing hard at your power level you're probably going to consume almost a full tank in a 25 min session. on 93 I use just about 1/2 tank in that amount of time, but since I don't like to run lower than a 1/4 for fear of the fuel pump sucking air I have to fill up after every session.
I've heard NJMP is a really fun track, I'm eager to run out there. Do you run with NASA? The plan is to bring E85 with me since I have such easy access to it near my house. Right now I've been running 93 octane on the street and I swap to 100 octane at the track since its available at track pumps and helps give me some peace of mind running the car hard on a hot day at full boost. I've started running hard enough that I'm sucking down half a tank of 100 octane a session just like you, so I fill up between sessions. This is especially a pain in the *** at Summit as the track pumps only allow you to use a credit card once per day so I have to use multiple cards. Compared to that bringing my own fuel won't seem like a chore.

I have a lot to learn still, as I haven't gotten my time trial license yet, but at least at Summit I'm turning fast lap times for my tires. Next season I plan to run a lot at NJMP and do a bunch of autocross because its fun, good practice, local, and CHEAP.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 08:59 AM
  #19  
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From: In da streetz
NJMP is an awesome facility, you will have a great time there!

I instruct with PCA, BMWCCA, SCCA & Trackdaze. I run with NASA once and a while, but I'm not a NASA instructor, and I don't really do TT's (yet), so its not cost effective for me to run with them often. that will change next year, though.

at your power level you should be using more fuel than that. Its not a bad thing that you aren't, it just shows that you've got more power than you can currently use.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 09:08 AM
  #20  
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From: Columbia, MD
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
NJMP is an awesome facility, you will have a great time there!

I instruct with PCA, BMWCCA, SCCA & Trackdaze. I run with NASA once and a while, but I'm not a NASA instructor, and I don't really do TT's (yet), so its not cost effective for me to run with them often. that will change next year, though.

at your power level you should be using more fuel than that. Its not a bad thing that you aren't, it just shows that you've got more power than you can currently use.
Yup, I definitely have tons more on the table... I'm turning consistently low 1:31-1:32s at Summit Main on Dunlop Star specs. I suck terribly at turn 5, and not great at turn 10... so I know I can break into the 1:29s on my current setup with more practice. I'm pretty consistent on the rest of the course, so I've been working on driving off line more.

Very cool that you are instructing with those orgs. I'll have to bug you for tips! One of my buddies is a PCA Potomac guy. He instructs and helps run the PCA autocross events. We haven't done any track days together, but we'll be doing autocross tomorrow. The Porsche guys are really laid back and fun to run with, but I mostly do track days with NASA and my shop Agile Auto.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 10:09 AM
  #21  
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E85 is definitely win win because of its knock resistance and cooling effect, but for track days, I think you're current power levels are pretty good for the stock block.
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 10:17 AM
  #22  
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We take 100 gallons to most track events. We do fuel multiple cars and run 20 min sessions so sometimes letting it sit a session to conserve fuel isnt a bad thing. Depending on power level the normal mileage is somewhere between 3 and 3.5 on course. PM Luke or GTIsrule for more accurate mileage estimates.

Aaron
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Old Nov 4, 2011 | 11:58 AM
  #23  
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From: Columbia, MD
Originally Posted by JohnBradley
Depending on power level the normal mileage is somewhere between 3 and 3.5 on course.
Whew, thats sucking down fuel lol. On the plus side I go through 100 octane pretty quick now, and thats over $9/gallon. At least E85 is cheap.
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