Evo 8 with MAP EF2.5
I'm going to do a virtual dyno run starting at 2500rpm pretty soon here to see if it helps shift the power curve left, im not sure if tuner starts his runs slowly at 2500 instead of going all out. The dyno could be loaded differently too because i looked at my stock evo 8 turbo graph and it spooled just a little earlier than this turbo and we all know a stock turbo spools stupid fast
You know I could send you a 390 ish WHP stock turbo VD log vs your EF2.5 and we could do a comparison between the two. Not to mention it would be interesting for everyone to see it as we are both non-mivec and fairly similar mods. What you think? send me your email via PM and we can do this and you can post it.
JDM Evo 7 RS
Map 02 eliminator recirculating downpipe
AMS 3" exhaust and decat
GSC S1 cams
Synapse DV
STM lightweight front brake rotors(with my custom brackets and larger Superlite calipers)
MAP Rev 3 intake
FP 70MM TB
ETS 3.8" garret core intercooler with upper/lower piping kit
Carbing cold air box with 3" intake and Blitz SUS steel mesh filter
stock turbo with 10.5 hotside (aka evo 8.5 turbo)
JDM pump gas 28psi falling to 24-25psi
Last edited by mean4g63; Mar 28, 2013 at 04:46 AM.
I'd like to clarify a couple of things. In my first reponse it might have seemed that I was ragging on your tuner. But, I was not. He is performing his job of tuning your car on the Dyno. In fact, he achieved some altogether impressive peak torque and horsepower numbers.
Your MAP 2.5 turbo is a one off configuration. This is the first time, ever, tuning one of these puppies. Therefore, being a first time endeavor, there are no preexisting base tunes, and no established data on how to tune one of these units yet. The relatively slow spool and the late torgue hit are not your tuners fault. These two issues preexist and are independent of the tuning process.
Your tuner works with the car as set up the way it is when you drive it up onto the rollers. He just tickles the keyboard and adjusts the tables, etc. Sure, up to a certain extent he can impact turbo spool by playing with the fuel and timing tables and the WGDC. However, it is your responsibility to deliver the car to the tuner with wastegate preload properly set to at least 24-26# for your particular 31# target boost level. Also, I am thinking that the HD 24# spring should have been installed instead of the weaker 16-18# internal spring prior to the tuning session. Likewise, your DV probably needed crushing as well if it is still uncrushed.
Your MAP 2.5 turbo is a one off configuration. This is the first time, ever, tuning one of these puppies. Therefore, being a first time endeavor, there are no preexisting base tunes, and no established data on how to tune one of these units yet. The relatively slow spool and the late torgue hit are not your tuners fault. These two issues preexist and are independent of the tuning process.
Your tuner works with the car as set up the way it is when you drive it up onto the rollers. He just tickles the keyboard and adjusts the tables, etc. Sure, up to a certain extent he can impact turbo spool by playing with the fuel and timing tables and the WGDC. However, it is your responsibility to deliver the car to the tuner with wastegate preload properly set to at least 24-26# for your particular 31# target boost level. Also, I am thinking that the HD 24# spring should have been installed instead of the weaker 16-18# internal spring prior to the tuning session. Likewise, your DV probably needed crushing as well if it is still uncrushed.
Last edited by sparky; Mar 28, 2013 at 07:25 AM.
That's very true, Craig King. Peak boost levels need to be same on both turbos, just as the actuator spring pressure needs to be set to the same tension using the same actuator, etc. For the comparison to be accurate....All variables need to be constant and identical.
I'm not trying to start an argument or $hittin' match.... I'm sure we all believe that the EF2.5 spools faster than the EF3, but I'm curious how much LESS power the 2.5 makes from the 3.
....I'm ditching the EF3 in hopes of having a lot better spool and just as good up top with this new turbo..... I absolutely love the EF3 but on a stock 2.0 it wasnt quite for me (full spool was around 4400) It has just nasty power up top. But I personally like quick nasty torque....
As it turns out, I got a great deal from Chad on a used BB BBK-B. I just could not afford the tariff for a new BB-Full, or BB Green. At the time that I pulled the trigger, MAP had not yet configured their EF 2.5, or I definitely would have considered it as well. So, I too am following this thread with interest.
Last edited by sparky; Mar 28, 2013 at 05:45 PM.
evo 8 turbo spools just a little faster? wow. Talk about a serious issue. My 7 turbo with 10.5 hotside hits 30 psi by 3500 RPM.
You know I could send you a 390 ish WHP stock turbo VD log vs your EF2.5 and we could do a comparison between the two. Not to mention it would be interesting for everyone to see it as we are both non-mivec and fairly similar mods. What you think? send me your email via PM and we can do this and you can post it.
JDM Evo 7 RS
Map 02 eliminator recirculating downpipe
AMS 3" exhaust and decat
GSC S1 cams
Synapse DV
STM lightweight front brake rotors(with my custom brackets and larger Superlite calipers)
MAP Rev 3 intake
FP 70MM TB
ETS 3.8" garret core intercooler with upper/lower piping kit
Carbing cold air box with 3" intake and Blitz SUS steel mesh filter
stock turbo with 10.5 hotside (aka evo 8.5 turbo)
JDM pump gas 28psi falling to 24-25psi
You know I could send you a 390 ish WHP stock turbo VD log vs your EF2.5 and we could do a comparison between the two. Not to mention it would be interesting for everyone to see it as we are both non-mivec and fairly similar mods. What you think? send me your email via PM and we can do this and you can post it.
JDM Evo 7 RS
Map 02 eliminator recirculating downpipe
AMS 3" exhaust and decat
GSC S1 cams
Synapse DV
STM lightweight front brake rotors(with my custom brackets and larger Superlite calipers)
MAP Rev 3 intake
FP 70MM TB
ETS 3.8" garret core intercooler with upper/lower piping kit
Carbing cold air box with 3" intake and Blitz SUS steel mesh filter
stock turbo with 10.5 hotside (aka evo 8.5 turbo)
JDM pump gas 28psi falling to 24-25psi
I'd like to clarify a couple of things. In my first reponse it might have seemed that I was ragging on your tuner. But, I was not. He is performing his job of tuning your car on the Dyno. In fact, he achieved some altogether impressive peak torque and horsepower numbers.
Your MAP 2.5 turbo is a one off configuration. This is the first time, ever, tuning one of these puppies. Therefore, being a first time endeavor, there are no preexisting base tunes, and no established data on how to tune one of these units yet. The relatively slow spool and the late torgue hit are not your tuners fault. These two issues preexist and are independent of the tuning process.
Your tuner works with the car as set up the way it is when you drive it up onto the rollers. He just tickles the keyboard and adjusts the tables, etc. Sure, up to a certain extent he can impact turbo spool by playing with the fuel and timing tables and the WGDC. However, it is your responsibility to deliver the car to the tuner with wastegate preload properly set to at least 24-26# for your particular 31# target boost level. Also, I am thinking that the HD 24# spring should have been installed instead of the weaker 16-18# internal spring prior to the tuning session. Likewise, your DV probably needed crushing as well if it is still uncrushed.
Your MAP 2.5 turbo is a one off configuration. This is the first time, ever, tuning one of these puppies. Therefore, being a first time endeavor, there are no preexisting base tunes, and no established data on how to tune one of these units yet. The relatively slow spool and the late torgue hit are not your tuners fault. These two issues preexist and are independent of the tuning process.
Your tuner works with the car as set up the way it is when you drive it up onto the rollers. He just tickles the keyboard and adjusts the tables, etc. Sure, up to a certain extent he can impact turbo spool by playing with the fuel and timing tables and the WGDC. However, it is your responsibility to deliver the car to the tuner with wastegate preload properly set to at least 24-26# for your particular 31# target boost level. Also, I am thinking that the HD 24# spring should have been installed instead of the weaker 16-18# internal spring prior to the tuning session. Likewise, your DV probably needed crushing as well if it is still uncrushed.
PS: BOV is crushed
No sir
Last edited by evotuner04; Mar 28, 2013 at 05:35 PM.
[QUOTE=evotuner04;10733405]...Map has told me all wg are properly preloaded, also after turbo was already in i asked my tuner to check wg preload ...never touched it, asked him again before tune, nothing.) another note map has told me it shouldnt matter what spring is in the actuator considering its just known as a safety to the turbo and ebc will dictate....
IMO, Your tuner and MAP are both being a wee bit silly:
1) " All wastegates are properly preloaded...." -Huh?
2) " It shouldn't matter what spring is in the actuator" - I love this one.
3) "...the EBC will dictate what the boost is at..." -Yeah, sure, whatever
The above generalizations are merely ad hoc rationalizations that do nothing to solve, or explain your slow boost issue. If , as stated, your EBC alone dictates where boost is at under all conditions, then your slow boost issue should be fixable simply through EBC adjustment or reprogramming of that control device.
IMO, Your tuner and MAP are both being a wee bit silly:
1) " All wastegates are properly preloaded...." -Huh?
2) " It shouldn't matter what spring is in the actuator" - I love this one.
3) "...the EBC will dictate what the boost is at..." -Yeah, sure, whatever
The above generalizations are merely ad hoc rationalizations that do nothing to solve, or explain your slow boost issue. If , as stated, your EBC alone dictates where boost is at under all conditions, then your slow boost issue should be fixable simply through EBC adjustment or reprogramming of that control device.
Last edited by sparky; Mar 29, 2013 at 07:19 PM.
You know what I really like about your dyno numbers? It's that torque figure. The 407 lb-ft obtained on a Mustang Dyno is impressive. Once you get that slow spool issue solved, then the torque should improve even more. That speaks gobs about the power potential of that new EF 2.5 turbo. I can't wait to see what she is capable of accomplishing powerwise once you get her spooling properly. I am willing to bet that there is still more left on the table torquewise.
Last edited by sparky; Mar 31, 2013 at 11:43 AM.
You know what I really like about your numbers? It's that torque number. The 407 lb-ft obtained on a Mustang Dyno is impressive. Once you get the slow spool issue solved, then the torque should improve even more. That speaks gobs about the power potential of that new EF 2.5 turbo. Can't wait to see what she is capable of once you get her spooling properly.
Last edited by mean4g63; Mar 30, 2013 at 10:34 PM.