Synapse still the best for driveability?
Sep 19, 2016, 10:09 AM
#1
Synapse still the best for driveability?
Hey guys,
My 71HTA (with advanced port) spools so quick in higher gears that I get pretty bad BOV flutter in high gear/low boost settings when letting off the throttle...example, slight incline in 3rd at 2500rpm 5psi.
The flutter is bad enough that it can cause bucking.
I'm currently using a slightly crushed IX oem bov.
Will I be able to dial out the flutter/bucking with a Synapse DV bov and still hold 30psi at wot?
Also with reports of bad castings (cracking) Synapse BOV's, can this be mounted oem style as opposed to hard mounted to a UICP? I am still using the stock UICP.
My 71HTA (with advanced port) spools so quick in higher gears that I get pretty bad BOV flutter in high gear/low boost settings when letting off the throttle...example, slight incline in 3rd at 2500rpm 5psi.
The flutter is bad enough that it can cause bucking.
I'm currently using a slightly crushed IX oem bov.
Will I be able to dial out the flutter/bucking with a Synapse DV bov and still hold 30psi at wot?
Also with reports of bad castings (cracking) Synapse BOV's, can this be mounted oem style as opposed to hard mounted to a UICP? I am still using the stock UICP.
Sep 19, 2016, 10:33 AM
#2
Yes The BOV can be mounted OE style. I purchased this flangehttp://synapseengineering.pinnacleca...=product&id=16
Goes into the side port on the synapse BOV then use a hose to connect it to the flange of the UICP like the factory valve. I am not using either and have them both BNIB I plan to sell or return once my car comes back from my tuners.
The BOV and Flange are in the back seat of the car. lol
Goes into the side port on the synapse BOV then use a hose to connect it to the flange of the UICP like the factory valve. I am not using either and have them both BNIB I plan to sell or return once my car comes back from my tuners.
The BOV and Flange are in the back seat of the car. lol
Sep 19, 2016, 02:13 PM
#3
what type of boost control method are you using?
the stock bov is pretty darn good.
i have been running the synapse synchronic bov for years & I havent had to change the settings from e8, e9, 71hta non surge ported, 71hta surge port, hta-grn, hta-blk.... all on a 2.4L, so i know what surge feels like, when created...
a way you can over drive the turbo is by running a crazy amount of duty asking for all the boost the turbo can make, when the engine cant digest it & over comes the ability for the bov to vent.
what w/g actuator are you running?
the stock bov is pretty darn good.
i have been running the synapse synchronic bov for years & I havent had to change the settings from e8, e9, 71hta non surge ported, 71hta surge port, hta-grn, hta-blk.... all on a 2.4L, so i know what surge feels like, when created...
a way you can over drive the turbo is by running a crazy amount of duty asking for all the boost the turbo can make, when the engine cant digest it & over comes the ability for the bov to vent.
what w/g actuator are you running?
Sep 19, 2016, 08:14 PM
#4
what type of boost control method are you using?
the stock bov is pretty darn good.
i have been running the synapse synchronic bov for years & I havent had to change the settings from e8, e9, 71hta non surge ported, 71hta surge port, hta-grn, hta-blk.... all on a 2.4L, so i know what surge feels like, when created...
a way you can over drive the turbo is by running a crazy amount of duty asking for all the boost the turbo can make, when the engine cant digest it & over comes the ability for the bov to vent.
what w/g actuator are you running?
the stock bov is pretty darn good.
i have been running the synapse synchronic bov for years & I havent had to change the settings from e8, e9, 71hta non surge ported, 71hta surge port, hta-grn, hta-blk.... all on a 2.4L, so i know what surge feels like, when created...
a way you can over drive the turbo is by running a crazy amount of duty asking for all the boost the turbo can make, when the engine cant digest it & over comes the ability for the bov to vent.
what w/g actuator are you running?
Hey Aby,
I'm running a 3port BCS for boost control and a slightly crushed stock IX BOV with a 18lb actuator.
I do believe I'm at 100% DC at the 2500 rpm range, that of course is for fast spool.
Are you suggesting I lower DC to remove the bucking at higher gears/low load?
Can't I not have both quick spooling and no bucking...I really want my cake and eat it too!!
Last edited by tsitalon1; Sep 20, 2016 at 03:50 AM.
Sep 20, 2016, 12:10 AM
#5
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Idk about others but so far the synapse bovs (older version big *** bov) I have seen are all leaking during crusing. You can hear it and definitely feel it if you're on maf set up. I'm on SD now so the drivability is better but I can still hear it leaking during cruise. I tried different ports and tried to adjust it but not much luck. The only time it actually didnt have a drivability issue was when it was recirculated. It holds boost great though. And I think the bov being open and gushing air out is normal and just the way they were designed
Sep 20, 2016, 09:11 AM
#6
Hey Aby,
I'm running a 3port BCS for boost control and a slightly crushed stock IX BOV with a 18lb actuator.
I do believe I'm at 100% DC at the 2500 rpm range, that of course is for fast spool.
Are you suggesting I lower DC to remove the bucking at higher gears/low load?
Can't I not have both quick spooling and no bucking...I really want my cake and eat it too!!
I'm running a 3port BCS for boost control and a slightly crushed stock IX BOV with a 18lb actuator.
I do believe I'm at 100% DC at the 2500 rpm range, that of course is for fast spool.
Are you suggesting I lower DC to remove the bucking at higher gears/low load?
Can't I not have both quick spooling and no bucking...I really want my cake and eat it too!!
anyway, just back off a bit with the duty until you find that point.
also, how much are you preloaded on the w/g actuator? I have mine set, so i have to pull up over >1/2 the peg of the flapper arm.
if your doing the tuning, pull out all the duty & see if the bucking still exist. if it does, then you can back off the w/g actuator. if it goes away, pull the duty out @ lower rpms & the boost where the surge happens.
at the end of the day, with the smaller turbine wheels, back pressure kills overall power & help generate knock. so do what you can by allowing as much exhaust gas to flow out of the w/g side, while still achieving your target boost.
fwiw, the small synapse bov will help you in the spool up / transient response department
Sep 20, 2016, 10:22 AM
#7
Idk about others but so far the synapse bovs (older version big *** bov) I have seen are all leaking during crusing. You can hear it and definitely feel it if you're on maf set up. I'm on SD now so the drivability is better but I can still hear it leaking during cruise. I tried different ports and tried to adjust it but not much luck. The only time it actually didnt have a drivability issue was when it was recirculated. It holds boost great though. And I think the bov being open and gushing air out is normal and just the way they were designed
The one that I damage from time to time is the o-ring to the flange but that's only if you run their flange.
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Sep 20, 2016, 10:33 AM
#8
I am impressed with the DV's driveability, but I am dealing with a couple of issues from Synapse. First, the new body is not perfect (casting imperfections, faded logo). I don't care about this as much because performance is what matters to me, but how the hell does Tial sell such great looking products and I have one that looks used?! lol
Second, I received a Dv with a damaged inner O-ring. I am waiting for Synapse to hopefully cover it. I have a tiny leak at idle, hopefully its just the Oring.
Driveability is great compared to the stock crushed DV, but I can not compare it to any other brand.
Second, I received a Dv with a damaged inner O-ring. I am waiting for Synapse to hopefully cover it. I have a tiny leak at idle, hopefully its just the Oring.
Driveability is great compared to the stock crushed DV, but I can not compare it to any other brand.
Sep 20, 2016, 10:58 AM
#9
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I am impressed with the DV's driveability, but I am dealing with a couple of issues from Synapse. First, the new body is not perfect (casting imperfections, faded logo). I don't care about this as much because performance is what matters to me, but how the hell does Tial sell such great looking products and I have one that looks used?! lol
Second, I received a Dv with a damaged inner O-ring. I am waiting for Synapse to hopefully cover it. I have a tiny leak at idle, hopefully its just the Oring.
Driveability is great compared to the stock crushed DV, but I can not compare it to any other brand.
Second, I received a Dv with a damaged inner O-ring. I am waiting for Synapse to hopefully cover it. I have a tiny leak at idle, hopefully its just the Oring.
Driveability is great compared to the stock crushed DV, but I can not compare it to any other brand.
Sep 20, 2016, 11:23 AM
#10
Trust me, im a torque *****, 71hta on a 2.4 on e85 should give you an idea
anyway, just back off a bit with the duty until you find that point.
also, how much are you preloaded on the w/g actuator? I have mine set, so i have to pull up over >1/2 the peg of the flapper arm.
if your doing the tuning, pull out all the duty & see if the bucking still exist. if it does, then you can back off the w/g actuator. if it goes away, pull the duty out @ lower rpms & the boost where the surge happens.
at the end of the day, with the smaller turbine wheels, back pressure kills overall power & help generate knock. so do what you can by allowing as much exhaust gas to flow out of the w/g side, while still achieving your target boost.
fwiw, the small synapse bov will help you in the spool up / transient response department
anyway, just back off a bit with the duty until you find that point.
also, how much are you preloaded on the w/g actuator? I have mine set, so i have to pull up over >1/2 the peg of the flapper arm.
if your doing the tuning, pull out all the duty & see if the bucking still exist. if it does, then you can back off the w/g actuator. if it goes away, pull the duty out @ lower rpms & the boost where the surge happens.
at the end of the day, with the smaller turbine wheels, back pressure kills overall power & help generate knock. so do what you can by allowing as much exhaust gas to flow out of the w/g side, while still achieving your target boost.
fwiw, the small synapse bov will help you in the spool up / transient response department
I will play with spool DC, reluctantly
So would the Synapse be a waste of money in my case....unless I wanted more spool up / transient response?
Sep 20, 2016, 12:35 PM
#11
Tial parts are all billet aluminum except for the cast stainless steel portion of their wastegates. That's why they look better. I have a synapse DV sitting in the garage. I haven't put it on yet because I feel like it ugly compared to my Tial QRJ, and I've seen pictures recently of the housing falling apart.
Again though, I am ok with it not looking mint, I just want some damn customer service! I placed an order mid July, received it last week, and I wish the damn thing didn't get shipped to me with a busted Oring. I am still waiting to hear if they will cover it!!!
I took this picture to show that imperfection, not to capture what the Synapse looks like lol.
Sep 20, 2016, 02:34 PM
#12
fwiw, i dont believe I pulled/removed my synapse since it came out.
I would buy a small synapse
I had mine since 2010, no issues
Last edited by Aby@MIL.SPEC; Sep 20, 2016 at 02:48 PM.
Sep 21, 2016, 11:06 AM
#13
FWIW, I switched to the synapse and its fantastic. Setup in push (like OEM), Vent B to boost/vac, Vent A vented (I think, it was big port to boost/vac and small vented). Stock BOV wont hold enough boost and crushed surged like crazy when trying to modulate throttle.
I have to really try to get the synapse to surge and on course (AutoX) I can modulate throttle as good or better than the stock valve ever did. It also pressure tests over 30psi without leaking. It does this not with spring pressure but with the B chamber area being greater than valve area.
I have to really try to get the synapse to surge and on course (AutoX) I can modulate throttle as good or better than the stock valve ever did. It also pressure tests over 30psi without leaking. It does this not with spring pressure but with the B chamber area being greater than valve area.
Sep 22, 2016, 01:25 PM
#14
^Ahh thanks for chiming in! Thats my biggest concern in terms of driveability. It seems there are numerous valves on the market that can hold 30# but what makes a world of a difference is being able to modulate the throttle.
But the battle of Tial vs Synapse seems to be still up in the air. Has anyone done a back to back comparison of the Tial vs the Synapse? For every comment about the Synapse having great road manors I then hear about the body falling apart and I don't care to deal with that either. But if it drives better than the Tial then it might be worth the risk.
But the battle of Tial vs Synapse seems to be still up in the air. Has anyone done a back to back comparison of the Tial vs the Synapse? For every comment about the Synapse having great road manors I then hear about the body falling apart and I don't care to deal with that either. But if it drives better than the Tial then it might be worth the risk.
Sep 22, 2016, 01:51 PM
#15
Apparently that was a casting issue they had but they'll replace free of charge (did for BrianAWD here)
As for whos done back to back, MrFred has. He had an old version of the Synapse and switched to the Tial QRF. I got the synapse and found my epic port and spring configuration and told Mychailo about it so he bought one since he didn't like the surge in the Tial. Last I asked him about it he loved it in comparison. His 3B is apparently more prone to surging than my Full BB (actually blouch 1.0XTR, but same thing), but it did help tremendously.
As for whos done back to back, MrFred has. He had an old version of the Synapse and switched to the Tial QRF. I got the synapse and found my epic port and spring configuration and told Mychailo about it so he bought one since he didn't like the surge in the Tial. Last I asked him about it he loved it in comparison. His 3B is apparently more prone to surging than my Full BB (actually blouch 1.0XTR, but same thing), but it did help tremendously.
