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So I bought a 20G for my Evo off a guy in Malaysia that builds turbos (yes yes I know), ran for 800 miles and the car made 460whp on a Mustang Dyno @ 33-34psi tapering to 27psi for a week until Thursday night when I did a pull and heard a bang as I hit 2nd. I thought it was a boost leak at first since I heard a high pitched whine/whistle. Drove around the block, then it got louder and louder and I realized I wasn't building any boost.
Took it apart and found this rolling around my air filter.
Found this in my air filter, a shaft nut.
Took the intake pipe off, fins were shredded. Turbo wheel seemed entirely seized within the housing.
While I wait for a tow, I take the bumper off and remove the LICP for at least a quart of oil just hanging out.
I got the car to my garage 2 miles away w/a flat tow (car out of gear, just me in the car using the brakes/steering) and his mom's SUV. Took the car apart immediately, found my turbine a little chewed up. Then took my compressor housing off...
Alright it's entirely done. Took the pics the next day cause it was 1am and I was tired.
LICP definitely has shredded aluminium bits from the compressor wheel. I dropped the intercooler (ETS 3.5") off at a radiator shop, explained the situation and they were going to flush it out.
UICP is a different story, if you see closely on the coupler there's fine aluminium bits which is worrying.
My oil also had coolant (blue) in it, possibly from the center cartridge seizing? Or the coolant feed dripping into the turbo return. I think the Moroso Pan saved the engine, since it still had 4.2 quarts of oil (6.2qt capacity).
Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 10, 2020 at 02:15 PM.
How worried should I be of needing a whole new shortblock? I am definitely going to compression test the motor, and I'm going to pour new oil in it (NAPA 15w50 Synthetic + Hengst H97W05 Oil Filter) for 100 miles after I get the car running again to flush it, and do another oil change shortly after.
Could it have been a component failure? Or a assembly/installer failure? This was a Evo 6 GSR turbo (compressor housing, center cartridge, 10.5 turbine housing) that was machined out to take KTS 7+7 71/52mm Compressor Wheels and a 61/55mm 9 Blade Turbine wheel. If it's a component failure (poor metallurgy on turbine shaft) I'll get a FP/Blouch and go from there. If it's assembly/installer...then I could save the $5-800 and build the same turbo. Car actually had a great boost curve, similar power and spool to a FP Red. Obviously at this point I regret buying it lol, but the car made enough power that I feel like I could've been as happy with a 71 HTA (at this point though I'm going either FP54 or Blouch 1.0XT). Car is a Evo 9 w/GSC S2s, Built 2.0 (Manley TT Rods and 9:6.1 pistons), ported exhaust/intake manifolds on E85. Was gonna go occasionally track the car and felt 500whp dynojet/450whp mustang is gonna be overkill.
What else should I do given the amount of debris? I'm cleaning out the intercooler pipes with kerosene and water, and I dropped the intercooler off at a radiator shop to get flushed. I was going to inspect the intake manifold for any big shavings with a inspection camera and blow air through the BCS lines, and possibly open the turbo smart wastegate up. Sending out a oil sample to Blackstone too.
I am in a similar boat so I will tell you what I am doing. My oil pump started to wear and it showed signs of bearing damage on the pump gear, but the stub shaft and bearing looked good. Randomly pull 1 cam cap from each cam (not the end ones) and check to see if there is any signs of contamination, which I suspect there is not. Pull the pan, drain it and completely clean it out.
Here is specifically what I am doing. I am adding a 2 micron Amsoil Bypass Filter to my setup, which siphons off a small amount of oil after the pump through a ~0.045" orifice and filters it down to 2 microns before dumping it back to the pan. This does not replace the stock filter as that is still the main filtration mechanism due to the 2 micron filter ideally flowing 0.5gallons/min, which should theoretically filter all of your oil down to 2 microns every few minutes. If you are interested in building a kit DIY for much cheaper I can list the parts since I have ordered most of them and did all the research. This is not a bad system to have on your vehicle regardless of your issue.
More information here for the general concept for how it works. A lot of companies make the kit for $300 - $400 that still require that you integrate it to the EVO, but you can build one for under $200. https://www.amsoil.com/p/universal-s...-system-bmk21/
I am in a similar boat so I will tell you what I am doing. My oil pump started to wear and it showed signs of bearing damage on the pump gear, but the stub shaft and bearing looked good. Randomly pull 1 cam cap from each cam (not the end ones) and check to see if there is any signs of contamination, which I suspect there is not. Pull the pan, drain it and completely clean it out.
Here is specifically what I am doing. I am adding a 2 micron Amsoil Bypass Filter to my setup, which siphons off a small amount of oil after the pump through a ~0.045" orifice and filters it down to 2 microns before dumping it back to the pan. This does not replace the stock filter as that is still the main filtration mechanism due to the 2 micron filter ideally flowing 0.5gallons/min, which should theoretically filter all of your oil down to 2 microns every few minutes. If you are interested in building a kit DIY for much cheaper I can list the parts since I have ordered most of them and did all the research. This is not a bad system to have on your vehicle regardless of your issue.
More information here for the general concept for how it works. A lot of companies make the kit for $300 - $400 that still require that you integrate it to the EVO, but you can build one for under $200. https://www.amsoil.com/p/universal-s...-system-bmk21/
Yeah that seems like a good idea. I'm guessing it's just going to be a oil filter sandwich plate for the feed/return, AN fittings, and a filter mounted somewhere? Makes me wonder how expensive the filter + mount you're using if it's still nearly $200 lol.
The only other issue I'm not sure is I'm worried that whatever aluminium shed by the compressor wheel could've went into one side of the intercooler, out the other side, and scraped/chewed up the cylinder walls. So a compression test might seem okay, but 500-1000 miles later when I'm going through a quart of oil every 200 miles...I don't think a lot would've went into the oil pan to begin with in my case. Plus I have a Moroso Pan, not looking forward to dropping it at all with the engine in the car. For what it's worth I'm gonna cut the oil filter open, but I dropped that oil filter in the oil bucket in the last pic (bucket was 100% clean and empty beforehand, just wanted to see how much oil was in the sump).
-Extra 2 micron filter is on the good side of things.
-Your turbo failed due to incorrect assembly. They did not put the correct torque specs on the nut, the nut after a while came lose due to harmonic/frequency vibrations the compressor creates, these are not a problem when everything is done properly, but when not things tend to escalate pretty fast. As I said the nut came loose, then the compressor due to centrifugal and lateral force was pushed against the nut and downwards at the same time, causing its hub to be eaten up. Once that happened, the wheel came out of balance, started to chew itself on the housing walls, and causing the turbine wheel to do the same, up to the point where friction was at such degree the shaft could not take it anymore, and that's the noise you heard that the nut made, when it was thrown against the compressor inlet and or inlet pipe.
-At these specs, your turbo should have given you better boost threshold, spool time, and full boost rpm point than an fp red. This is obviously down to its aerodynamic design and probably the mass of the wheels. The design tends to favor flow more than spool speed as it seems to have made good power on an MD dyno for a 52mm inducer turbo and significantly smaller turbine.
-If you want to do a proper cleaning job of the engine, you need to drop the pan, and using either diesel and brake cleaner spray, gasoline will also do, rotating the engine by hand and cleaning each cylinder individually, thoroughly.
-After you finish from underneath you need to remove the plugs and poor gasoline down, washing the piston crowns. Also check/clean with brake cleaner crank and rod bearings.
-You also need to flush the oil cooler.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 10, 2020 at 11:56 PM.
Reason: typo
Yeah that seems like a good idea. I'm guessing it's just going to be a oil filter sandwich plate for the feed/return, AN fittings, and a filter mounted somewhere? Makes me wonder how expensive the filter + mount you're using if it's still nearly $200 lol.
The only other issue I'm not sure is I'm worried that whatever aluminium shed by the compressor wheel could've went into one side of the intercooler, out the other side, and scraped/chewed up the cylinder walls. So a compression test might seem okay, but 500-1000 miles later when I'm going through a quart of oil every 200 miles...I don't think a lot would've went into the oil pan to begin with in my case. Plus I have a Moroso Pan, not looking forward to dropping it at all with the engine in the car. For what it's worth I'm gonna cut the oil filter open, but I dropped that oil filter in the oil bucket in the last pic (bucket was 100% clean and empty beforehand, just wanted to see how much oil was in the sump).
Adding the 2 micron bypass filter does not require a sandwich plate, but I forgot to mention that it would also be preferable to run a non bypass main filter, at least initially. I have not done any searching on a M20x1.5 non bypass filter, but will let you know what I find. Below are the main components for making the oil bypass setup.
So the 51210 will be a perfect fit size wise, but until I call Wix on Monday they don't list the filtration level in microns. The 51210 is a wire mesh based filtration vs the enhanced cellulose for the OEM and the 51272 is microglass. The pad on the OEM oil filter housing can accept comfortably up to a 2.9" OD gasket so the 51272 should work though too long for a daily driver. Another note on the 51272 and its' larger 2.834" OD for the seal, at least for a used oil filter housing that portion on the outside is typically dirty so you would need to make sure it is in good shape. I also need to see if the hydraulic filters can be used for lube.
One other filter looked perfect, but the gasket OD is too big. However, a simply adapter plate with a seal could be made although it is also too long for a DD.
FWIW Setrab sells their full flow Hyperflow serviceable filter that seems to be pretty neat. I've checked them out at PRI the past couple years and keep telling myself i'm going to get one eventually. Doesn't require any tools to disassemble, just push down and turn on the filter retainer, pull the filter out, wash it out with some brake clean, reinstall and change out the o ring and reinstall the filter assembly.
-If you want to do a proper cleaning job of the engine, you need to drop the pan, and using either diesel and brake cleaner spray, gasoline will also do, rotating the engine by hand and cleaning each cylinder individually, thoroughly.
-After you finish from underneath you need to remove the plugs and poor gasoline down, washing the piston crowns. Also check/clean with brake cleaner crank and rod bearings.
This seems like it will lead to more issues. I don't have a rod bolt stretch gauge to put the bearing caps on properly. Plus whatever debris that could've entered would go into the cylinder walls, scratching/wearing the bores, and out the exhaust valves. Why I'm hesitant to even pull the pan.
Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
Adding the 2 micron bypass filter does not require a sandwich plate, but I forgot to mention that it would also be preferable to run a non bypass main filter, at least initially. I have not done any searching on a M20x1.5 non bypass filter, but will let you know what I find. Below are the main components for making the oil bypass setup.
I might try the Wix 51272 filter you linked for a main filter. I don't think it would hurt the motor if I just idle on it. Would be good to reference too on future motor builds (IE to use for the first 20-50 break-in miles). Sometimes I feel like oil filters on these cars don't really do too much just due to the high oil pressures they run, wouldn't it go into bypass as soon as you rev the motor?
And yeah I'd rather do a sandwich plate to avoid dropping the pan, lol.
I might try the Wix 51272 filter you linked for a main filter. I don't think it would hurt the motor if I just idle on it. Would be good to reference too on future motor builds (IE to use for the first 20-50 break-in miles). Sometimes I feel like oil filters on these cars don't really do too much just due to the high oil pressures they run, wouldn't it go into bypass as soon as you rev the motor?
And yeah I'd rather do a sandwich plate to avoid dropping the pan, lol.
The OEM filter has a 14psi bypass, which makes it pretty much useless. As an alternative I found the WIX 57055 that is ~0.5" taller (will be above bottom of pan) and has a 27psi bypass with a 15 micron filter capability so it should work. Here are the specs if you want to search yourself vs the OEM 7092 and both are M20x1.5" thread.
It would be advised to drop the pan because you don't want to risk damage to the oil pump, but if you don't then you absolutely need the non bypass filter so if you can hang tight until Monday I will get the flow specs for the 51210 and see if both the 51210 and 51272 are compatible with lube (oil). The sandwich plate for the remote mount filter is also an option and the GTR guys do this and run the WIX Racing filters with no bypass using the following below. Essentially, in order to get the flow you need at high rpm you sacrifice filtration when you choosing a non bypass filter like the 51060R as shown below, but as long as you run the 2micron bypass filter in parallel you should be good.
The OEM filter has a 14psi bypass, which makes it pretty much useless. As an alternative I found the WIX 57055 that is ~0.5" taller (will be above bottom of pan) and has a 27psi bypass with a 15 micron filter capability so it should work. Here are the specs if you want to search yourself vs the OEM 7092 and both are M20x1.5" thread.
Yeah I'm really not looking forward to dropping the pan. Mine's pretty much cemented on with RTV to seal and it's dry and leak free, and I don't think a lot got into the oil to begin with. I think what I'll do is pour cheap oil into the filler on the valve cover and leave the drain plug open. I'd rather pick up WIX 51272 or WIX 51210 + NAPA 0w20 (thinking the more viscous oil will pick up more ****) and idle the car for 15-20 mins then flush the oil once I do a new turbo. On that note will a non-bypass filter being used as my main oil filter starve the pump if I drive around with it? Assuming I'm not taking the car past 4500 rpms.
Thanks for finding out about Wix 57055 too, that's a super common filter (off of 11-18 FB20/FB24 N/A Subarus, $6.50 at NAPA for a 47055 Platinum which is the same as a Wix 57055XP). It makes way more sense to use that as a main oil filter on Evos than the stock one with a 9-14psi bypass valve pressure. With a 9-14psi bypass psi when is the oil filter on a Evo even doing anything? I know my car rarely sees that oil pressure (no balance shafts/oil squirters).
So what brand was the turbine wheel & shaft? The compressor housing is blank of markings which indicates to me it isn't even a Kinugawa or Mamba unit.
Also, I see the end of the turbine shaft doesn't seem to be ground down AT ALL.... which means it was balanced only on the compressor end perhaps? If the turbo was out of balance that causes HUGE stresses.
A good sign of a bad turbine from Taiwan is when it is VSR balanced and the end of the turbine shaft has MAJOR grinding. Meaning that there was an imbalance in the turbine from casting...meaning there are major AIR pockets in the cast, meaning it is a ticking time bomb....
Lastly, be careful when selecting a WIX filter and going "off the map". Many of their filters are not meant for high temperature because they were originally designed to handle hydraulic fluid; so pay attention to the intended usage of XXX filter.
FWIW Setrab sells their full flow Hyperflow serviceable filter that seems to be pretty neat. I've checked them out at PRI the past couple years and keep telling myself i'm going to get one eventually. Doesn't require any tools to disassemble, just push down and turn on the filter retainer, pull the filter out, wash it out with some brake clean, reinstall and change out the o ring and reinstall the filter assembly.
