I'm not sure I understand what you mean either.

Sure of course, but with the three marques I listed, they don't overstaurate the market with dealeres being close together and they stick to their list prices.

That would be true if price was the only thing that determines wether a customer is satisfied or not. I know this from experience that this is NOT true. Ask any career salesperson. It's how the process is handled, the professionalism, the attention to the persons needs. Every buyer is different though, people buy for different reasons.

Isn't that what I just said? Read it again.

How do you know this? Do you have an invoice on an EVO? Post it, or I'll give you my fax number. I haven't seen one yet. You still don't get it. Who's to say what fair profit is on one car, over another? I don't care if it is a 85K BMW, or if it is a 14K Cavalier. Some people believe that $500 over, at invoice, or $500 back is all they will ever pay. And they won't EVER join your "MSRP is fair for everybody bandwagon." THAT is all I am saying!

Oh okay, I agree with that. It sounded as if you were saying that no matter what level of investment, race or street, FWD cars could never handle well.

 

You were saying that there are also people that want to pay invoice or below. The apple to apple comparison, wouldn't be the "invoice buyers" that you are referring to (or the vehicles that they want to by for such) My example is based on "in demand cars"...

This is what I am saying!! Why can't Mitsu dealers stick to sticker? We are talking supply and demand, not amount of dealerships within a metro area here. ( doesn't matter on this car..) Just sell the cars for list, and deliver them to happy clients that didn't need to shop for the dealership that WILL sell the EVO for MSRP. Mitsu dealers are almost costing themselves deals by going over sticker! It's like the reverse of what you are saying...Instead of people tring to get to invoice, they are trying to get to sticker!! should level the playing field for all dealers so price ISN"T the most important thing, and allow these dealers to sell the client on the product and service rather than this much over, or MSRP or basic PRICE...See what I mean?

Not to sound smart here but...I sell Lexus....don't you think I am aware of these basic facts? Again, you are talking about sales generalities here, not as they are specific to an "in demand" vehicle ! This is the fricken EVO...I am buying the car for the car, not how the sales process goes at the dealer....because what process could there be?? The car is hot as a pistol!!

If prices were the same at EVERY MITSU dealership on this "in demand" car.....WHERE WOULD YOU BUY YOUR EVO??!! See what I mean? That is when service becomes the most important thing! (or location, etc.) Not price! By forcing people to pay as much as they can over sticker, it is creating shoppers instead of buyers! Rather than informing the client that all cars will be sold for sticker per corporate, get your order in now or otherwise you won't get a car type of thing, they tell people it's this over, or that over, and risk losing a client all together!! (some may not buy from that dealer, others may just buy an STI when itycomes out! Or worse, they just don't buy an EVO cuz there are getting GOUGED!!!

One thing stands true however...whether the client pays sticker or invoice, you must treat them all with respect, and provide the best customer service. The EVO selling for over sticker has NOTHING to do with customer service. It is supply and demand. If Corporate said dealers should NOT go over sticker, I assure you, it would make the whole experience a lot easier for everyone including the dealers...

This is fun....
First of all. A sales guy told me what the est. profit will be. Why would having an invoice on the car make a difference??? I think YOU don;t get it! Nobody will be trying to get this car for invoice!! I't the wrong car to try based on supply and demand!! The buyers on this car are not "invoice buyers". They obviously have some commen sense to understand supply and demand! Whos to say what a fair profit is on a car? How about the manufacturer first by establing an MSRP, and then the buyer by negotiating with the dealers from that point!! If wanted to make more money on the car, they should have set the MSRP at $35k to start!!

See above...NOBODY WILL WALK INTO A delaership and offer invoice on this car!!Do I agree that those people won't join my MSRP is fair club? Certainly. But I'm not concerned with those people wanting to join because getting the evo for invoice is LUDICROUS. The whole point of me bring this post up, was to discuss the validity of selling the car for sticker, and to see how many people agreed and why!! AS you can see by the poll results.....A lot of people agree with the sticker or walk concept..

By the way. I AM paying $500 over. I didn't start the post to have people in my corner or anything, I just wanted to see how the poll would be taken. (I have previously posted a poll in regards to how much are you paying for your EVO...I wanted to see where everyone was at. It seemed most were at or slightly higher than MSRP.)
I got worried that I wouldn't get a car!I was told by the dealer that had a car coming, that I would have to participate in a selaed bid deal to get the car. For thousands over!! NO WAY!! It was pay $500.00 over or wait till April or May to get a car. I paid $500 over to get a car first thing in March. That is something I can justify.

Wish I didn't have to, though. But $500.00 is justifiable in this situation.

Great posts GP tourer...Fun to discuss things like this with another car guy..

 

To me, in demand cars could be Accords or Camry's. Or better yet Odysses. I don't think they have to be low volume "supercars" to be "in demand." My friend at the Honda store brags about the full pops they get on Odyssey mvans, and now they've got those ugly *** Pilots that everybody seems to want.

We can't "stick" to anything. That's my point, it would be collusion. In my area, there aren't so many people hot on an EVO. Sure there is a lot of excitement. But I am sure most people in California know there's going to be a shortage to go around. People down here look at it like its some kids car. If it ain't a pickup, SUV, or a muscle car, most people here don't care. I'm sure we will sell them all quickly, but I don't have a super long waiting list.

No I don't see what you mean. Hardcore buyers of this car already refer to dealers as "Satan". Do you think they really give a damn about how my service is? More then likely they'll be out of town buyers searching for the car because they are all gone from their area.

I gathered that, but wasn't sure. I thought Lexus was one price. Like Benz and Saturn. I still think it is a unique situation when you are guaranteed the only franchise in your city when you work for one of these dealers.

Once the EVOS are in the dealers hands, they have been paid for. Mitsu can't have any say on how much they are sold for. What if some rich guy buys up a bunch of EVOs at sticker, and then auctions them on Ebay and makes a killing? How would you guys feel about that? It's generally "okay" for a private citizen to do that, but if a dealer wants to do it to feed hungry salespeople, we get villanized.

Because until I see it on an offical invoice, I don't belive what that Sales guy told you. Its all just heresay to me. I hope he's right though.

This car isn't designed to make Mitsu a load of money. It is a halo car to bring people in to sell more regular Lancers, Galants, Endeavors, etc. Plus, if it were anywhere in the 35K range, fickle people would say they'd rather have an Sti.

Are you some kind of Nostradamous or are you part of the Psychic Friends Network? I can't argue with you on that except that I promise I'll have a bunch of people that will try. People on this board have already said that they don't pay MSRP for anything. They can offer anything they want, wether they'll get it is another sotry.

Then why are you giving me all this grief for? You are getting a deal, obviously because you are in the business, but you are hypocritically trying to tell me that all Mitsu deales need to only charge sticker to make sure everybody else is happy? What's up with that?

Haven't I said that a dozen times, each time someone starts one of these useless threads?

That is collusion. It is illegal. And it is heresay that it would be easier. IF they do it for one model, they would have to do it for all, and would have to change their entire dealer structure.

I agree.

 

Here is where you are lost, and why I am disagreeing with you. Oddity's ARE hot and in demand... Camry's and Accords are NOT. Know the difference. It's why your buddies are making pops on the Oddities... The Accords and Camrys are invoice cars...Can you make pops on them? Sure. Isolated cases. But the Oddity is a sure thing for the most part. (goes back to the "in demand " thing I am SCREAMING about.

Wrong...Franchise requirments for Lexus say no over sticker. It's not collusion if someone pays the asking price or suggested retail price. It would be "price fixing" if below or above MSRP across the board at all delaers or dealers owned by same company..Learn the meaning of collusion..


What? The guy buying an EVO can be switched to an Endeavor, base Lancer or Galant??!! You are crazy!! I see no switch cars in the bunch, and I certainly don't see clients sticking around a greedy dealership at that point...The STI comment is your opinion BTW..


Hey, look. I am arguing the validity and general benefit of delaers charging MSRP or close too. I'm not giving you ****, here. What's up is that people are paying THOUSANDS over. That is ridiculous. I strongly feel that delaers that charge over MSRP are greedy and it is unecessary.

No need to bad mouth the thread and then contradict yourself by saying...

You know what I mean?

Let's just say that I agree with your points, and hope that you see some of mine...

 

<-------------Rolls up his sleves



You are right. I should have left off the Camry and Accord part. They are most definitely not invoice cars, though. (And neither are our Galants.) Especially not when a new body style comes out. Particularly the Accord. Have you ever tried selling Tauruses and Impalas though, compared to those two? The Pilot/Oddity reference works better.

This is the last time I'm going to say this, because you seem unable to understand me. I can't "fix" at ANY price, $1 over MSRP, at MSRP, or $1 under with any other Mitsubishi dealer PERIOD. I'm not talking about Lexus, or any other brand. Mitsu people can't do it. It is illegal. I know what collusion is, do you?

No I am not. There will be many people coming in to see this car that aren't in the market for it. Some will come just because their kids want to look at it. Then those fathers and mothers might see an Endeavor or Diamante they like that they might never have seen because they had no intentions of ever stepping on to a Mitsubishi lot before.

Sorry, I was unaware that anybody has PAID anything for an Evo yet. There have only been deposits and conjecture.

I was only trying to say that I agreed that debating this with someone else in the business was refreshing. Then I looked back and saw that it was in fact you who started the thread. Don't take it personally. It just seems pointless to argue over this when simple market factors are to blame, not Mistubishi dealers or any dealer with a "hot" product. I suspect when the cars come out, people will have a lot more to talk about and discussion like this won't exist. We'll be asking, "what lap times did you get?" or "what boost controller do you use?" rather then "how much over invoice did you give the greedy little bloodsuckers?"

Do you know what I mean?

 

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here.....

I think you are mistaking collusion between a couple of shifty dealers with what a manufacturer has control over through its dealer networks. It's not collusion if the pricing is a mandate or operational guideline from the parent organization to ALL of its entities. All dealers, are after all, LICENSED ENTITIES of the manufacturers which means the manufacturers can do it if they want, just like Lexus and others. And yes, even with a guideline / mandate, the dealer can sell it for whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they'll get any cars allocated to them either. Like it or not, manufacturers do have significant control over dealers.

I suspect that discussions such as "ABC dealer tried to gouge me!" will be quite prominent as well if the dealers are intent on trying to do so. Word of mouth about a bad experience travels fast, and the Internet is even faster!

 

No way am i paying over msrp. Im waiting till the end of the year anyway but for arguments sake if it was still a problem i would laugh at them, say see u when i get my new Sti, and walk. Let them rip off somebody else who isnt smart enough to know better!

 

No I am not mistaking anything. Your above statement was what I said somewhere amongst the last two pages or so. Mitsubishi dealers are not part of such a dealer group, we do not have a pricing mandate and can't make any such agreements. Saturn and Mercedes people are.

That is true, but the cars will still sell. Not everybody will get exactly what they want, but that's life. I don't believe everything I read on the 'net, so when I hear someone say, "they tried to charge me ten grand over sticker and wouldn't take a penny less, don't go to dealer X" I will take it with a grain of salt just as if I had heard, "I paid $1 over invoice at dealer Y because I told them I wouldn't pay a penny more and they are lucky because I should get an Sti anyway." Or something to that effect.

 

THANK YOU!!!

I have been trying to say this for all of the posts that I have put up since going back and forth with GPtourer..(among other things)

It is FACT that Lexus says "NO" on over MSRP sales of their vehicles, for OBVIOUS reasons, GPTOURER... For the good of EVERYONE involved. This is the topic that I have been trying to talk about, not the pricing from the clients views... Reality is, MSRP is what they would pay if said no overage allowed.(which they could) Result would be: NO pissed off clients, and BETTER image of as a whole...

If a client wants to offer invoice on the EVO, then they aren't REAL buyers and you should turn them on to a base Lancer, or sell their parents an Outlander..(keep track of how well you do with the thought that the EVO will boost Outlander sales..BTW. I see it as a traffic builder for your showrooms, but will it be "quality" traffic? Or just a bunch of kids who can't afford the car?

BTW..Just because has had a great ad campaign which has driven showroom traffic, and decent product overall, doesn't mean that business is booming. They are the fastest growing import car this past year or two because business HAS been bad..
Lookit NISSAN for crying out!! They were almost bankrupt, but does that mean that they are on top of the world now? I hear that in some markets even the new "Z" car is sitting!!

I am just looking forward to paying my $500 over to get my EVO in the next couple of weeks..I can't wait to own/drive this car!

Watch for the pics!! It will be interesting to see who still gets their cars at ANY price!! ANd posts their pics, too!

 

Hah. so much reading for this damn thread. Its ok I learn things here and there. Now I have gotten to the point where I have my deposit down, and am just waiting for this car to arrive... I can't wait for people to rolling in with pics of thier rides...

 

But I'm not talking about Lexus.

That is your opinion. YOU CAN SCREAM IT ALL DAY with fancy colors and smileys, but it does not change that fact. Your own Toyota brand has no such mandate and they are at the top of Customer satisfaction.

Again, meaningless conjecture. People can "offer" what they want. Wether or not they'll get is different. Who could falt them for trying? If I were in their shoes I wouldn't so easily part with 30 large either. We either come to a mutual agreement, or we don't. Very simple.

The hell they haven't! They had a 7% growth over last years total sales, the best in the industry. You should stick to subjects you KNOW something about!

Look, trying to say what is working great for Lexus will also work great for Mitsu is ludicrous. It is a whole different market. You've got way more margin in the average Lexus then average Mitsu. You've got a whole different marketing strategy, so what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander?

Okay? Enjoy your Evo. Peace,

 

Neither am I!!

I have 7% growth in the morning with my johnson when I stumble out of bed....

Huh?! Yes they do! How would you know...?! Seriously, they really don't charge over sticker for Toyotas either...Stick to brands I know? I am...


I KNOW that I will have an EVO in my driveway soon..
I KNOW that the points I have made are valid ones...
I KNOW that we don't have to discuss it any more....

I think we are all just sick of talking about **** until our cars come in....

"Waiting is the hardest part....." Tom Petty

 

GP....don't take this the wrong way, but your ability to agree and disagree with us at random from post to post is quite amusing.



As to not continue to add quotes and make this post any longer, once more lets list the facts:

ALL dealers are licensed entities of the manufacturers they represent (yes, even Mitsubishi dealers)

ALL manufacturers have control over what their dealers do under those licenses regardless of what is or is not currently part of their guidelines.

We understand that Mitsubishi CURRENTLY has no mandate with its dealers to "respectfully request" car sales at no higher than MSRP. (Lexus was only an example we were giving, not the rule)

With 6500 Evolutions being produced for the US this year, there will be plenty of opportunity to make a good profit and sales commission on these vehicles without Mitsubishi corp AND its dealers trying to gouge customers.



GP....it sounds like you are possibly jealous of other sales people that sell higher margin cars, and now that you have a "hot item" to sell, you guys want to land a hefty commission from every single customer while the getting is good (because your other cars don't sell nearly as well??? ). Nothing wrong with that except that by taking the pricing to the next level (gouge level?... ), you guys will effectively price your "hot item" into a not so hot item when compared with the wealth of other choices in a similar if not slightly higher price point (all well under $40K) The EVO is a really neat car, but it's hardly the end all and be all of the automotive industry, especially if saddled with an "artificially" inflated price.

Wouldn't you rather sell two or three EVOs a week at MSRP to long-term customers than one every week or every other week at a rediculous markup to some shmuck who just has the money to blow away and/or is never going to come back when they realize just how badly they were raped? (and yes, I know about let the buyer beware and all that) It seems like you view the EVO as a one time opportunity to clean up instead of what intended it for. Yes, I know allocations are limited and I'm sure other sales people are falling all over themselves to try and sell the EVO to bolster their commissions in the short term. Regardless, you even said it yourself that the EVO was not meant to be a high profit car. If you understand point of view, they are actually trying to subtly say "Here's a nice little hot seller to help you drum up sales, but please remember that there are other cars to sell and make profit / commissions on."

Personally, the EVO isn't currently my first choice for my next vehicle as pure speed and power is not all that makes for a nice sport oriented vehicle, but it is on my top 5 list of being considered, pricing WITHIN REASON of course!

 

Not at all. I enjoy working where I do and I also like the product that I sell. I also love my car. I could so chose to work at almost any other dealer in my city tomorrow if I wanted.

It is statements like these that I have a problem with. Some dealers may only get one EVO all year, maybe none at all. Mitsu corp sells the cars to the dealer, and the dealer to the public so Mitsu's "proft" will be with whatever margin is between invoice and wholesale (factory cost). If a dealer can make more then they keep that.

So far we are being allocating 7 EVOS, that's not enough for "2 to 3" per week. And we aren't going to "rape" anybody. Our dealership hasn't received Mitsu's highest rank for customer service (CSI+SSI) two years in a row for nothing. But if other dealers decide they want to try to get all that they can in a very high demand situation, and they have willing customers to do it, I have no problem with that, and you shouldn't either - it is capitalism at it's best. The whole supply demand thing is more then likely what caused the USDM 8 to exist in the first place so that we could even be having this discussion.

IT sounds to me like some you you guys are jealous that there are people in this world who have a lot of resources (aka loot) to throw around and there are people willing to take advantage of that fact. If enough of those people exist then they will be gladly relieved of their funds. Life will go on, they will make more EVOS and the sun will still come up tomorrow.

How convenient. Others may only want the EVO and nothing else. Gasp! Is it possible that there are people that might feel a little more strongly about this car then you, and might be willing to pay a little more? Perhaps? Yeah I'm being sarcastic, but it is funny how between the two of you guys one is getting the car for $500 over and the other thinks the car is "Cool" but perhaps not his first and foremost choice.

I can't help it if you guys only make sense every once in a while or by accident!

Are you really a car salesperson? Don't you know how significant a 7% increase is? Especially in market conditions like this? What was Toyota's increase, or LExus? Nevermind, I know it was less then that, Oh... and your morning wood is only 7%?

Look, up until now, since Mitsu began selling cars here in 1981, there has never been so much hype on any of their products. They've done lots of things to land themselves in the situaion they are in now with consumer appeal, overall satisfaction and so forth. But selling cars over sticker isn't one of them. Now, here we are with a car that has the slightest possibillity of being sold over sticker in some markets and now all of a sudden Mitsu's image is about to go in the toilet, according to you guys? No. It is a small amount of cars going to a handful of enthusiasts, collectors, people who just want to have the next "in thing". Some will pay more then others just to be first. It is just that simple.

And let me just restate what started my whole rant to begin with. It isn't that I want to be able to charge a million dollars over sticker at all. M3 believes that all our customers would be happy if we just stuck to sticker, no higher. I on the other hand, live in the real world and know that there will be people who will want to pay less. I want to make those people happy too. However, supply and demand, might keep us from doing it. Also I can't agree to with other dealers because it is price fixing to do so. Is that so hard to understand?

 

GP...I think the problem is when you quote our responses, you sometimes end up taking things out of context.

We are not saying that you have to sell for MSRP either, less than MSRP is ok too (I thought that was a given ).

If you're willing to sell for less than MSRP, let me know...I may just buy one....

Anyway. I guess at this point I can just say this...if the dealers are reasonable (MSRP or lower) the EVO will have the intended effect Mitsubishi wants...more sales across the board. If they are not, people who go look at EVOs and get "sticker shock" from markups, will relay their experiences and have the exact opposite effect.


VW slogan: Drivers Wanted

slogan: BUYERS Wanted