That doesn't prove what they set out to prove, unfortunately. All it proved was that his chassis dyno and the other chassis dyno matched, and that they both read 24% lower than the engine dyno.

That does not prove that the transmission loss is 24%. It doesn't prove that the chassis dyno's horsepower is completely accurate. Take any math or science classes that teach proofs, and you would see why that particular test didn't prove what they set out to prove.

 

But Claude he does. He has tested a stock Euro Evo VII and it was within 1% of several UK Dyno Dynamic stock Evo VIIs tests (228 vs 226hp.) His results over eight Evo VIIIs were within 2%. The fact that you and several others don’t like the results does not change that.

Secondly, at the same Octane the press car from SCC out pulled the eight other cars from bottom to top. Those are the facts.

If any of you have better data speak up know.

Erik

 

I think it is fairly well known that previous Evos in Japan and Europe were underrated. The results of Shiv's dyno test does not indicate to me that the US cars are overrated. You can't conclude this from the data that have been given, period. You also can't conclude that the Evo only makes 190hp to the wheels.

As for the press car that SCC has, it is just one car. I can't account for the power difference.

For that matter, other shops with other dynos have gotten different results as well.

The best way to figure out what is going on, short of shipping cars or dynos across the country, is to take the cars to the drag strip and see what traps they pull. Trap speeds pretty much take the driver out of the equation. It then leaves weather and altitude as the only variables. So drag race at near sea level. That takes out another variable. And it shows what the car will do in real world conditions, on a real road, not a simulated road. A difference of nearly 30hp WILL show up in the trap speeds when these cars are drag raced, even at different tracks with different weather.

PLEASE don't make Evos the next dyno queen!

 

It's not that the Evo makes 190 whp on any dyno, but it consistently does on Shiv's Dyno Dynamics dyno. As long as other tuners follow Shiv's testing methods (taking a large sample of Evo 8 dynos), then we will also have a better idea of what the Evo 8 makes on their dyno and theirs alone.

1/4 mile trap speeds say very little about the car other than give some general idea of hp... what about power at various rpm ranges, etc? Add to that the immense stress placed on the tranny and drivetrain and the rarity of such testing days and many would much rather use a dyno to control their conditions for testing purposes. Dyno's are easily accessible and consistent and that's where their value lies.

Shiv's dyno clearly shows how much hp/tq difference their is between the press Evo, JDM Evo, US Evo, and various other cars at each given rpm range. That's a great tool to work with when tuning your vehicle, especially for those of us who have specific needs when tuning for a specific purpose. The drag strip, circuit, etc then becomes the final testing tool.

Mark

 

What will that show until you get times from the SCC car? Shiv never said that they were over or under rated just that they are different from the SCC car and of course the JDM cars. If he has demonstrated anything is that the US cars are very consistent.

That Dynojets read differently that is well known. As an engineer you just can't make the argument that 1/4 traps from all over the country will be more accurate than controlled than repeated dyno runs on the same dyno. It will be good verification.

And yes a USDM Evo may make substantially more than 180hp to the wheels. But I would expect the SCC car would make about 20hp more than a dealer purchased Evo and a JDM car would make 50hp more on any well controlled dyno run.

If you don't like the absolute numbers, so what. That is not what these dynos are for.

Erik

 

I've put over 250 1/4mi passes on my car and tons of autocrosses that get the same exact launch (4500 to 5000RPMs). I've never broken my transmission while racing, amazingly enough. I have broken gears, but during my daily driving. And the Evo tranny is stronger than my tranny for sure. It only has 2 shafts in it, as opposed to the 3 shafts in my trans. It allows the designers to make the gears larger.

I don't think you will see any stock Evos breaking at the drag strip.

 

Of course. It will just be more data and testing under real world conditions. And you can't turn a knob on mother nature to make the car appear to have more power. Yes, I don't trust people who have an agenda.

 

THANK YOU! This is what I have said a couple of times now in previous posts. Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about the car possibly being overrated and lacking power test it at the strip first. If you put down over 100mph through the traps you know your car is running fine and strong. Granted the above is not what Shiv was trying to get across. I know he just wants to make sure there's no real difference between the SCC car and the factory cars off the lot. But if you really want to know this take it to the track and post some 1/4 miles. I will be doing this this weekend IF it's not raining. Trap speeds don't lie. If the car runs under 100mph through the traps I will be very disappointed and then everyone can have reason for hating on

 

Dynos are good for tuning and drag is good for end results. Everyone here seems to be crying over whether or not the Evo is overrated or not. Forget what Shiv said. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what each car puts down on a dyno if your car can come up with the end results. Which is real world driving. The test car ran 5.1 0-60 and a 13.8@101.5. If you can run your car around those times at the track then you know your car is to spec. Done arguments over. Now if you still want to ***** about the SCC car having a higher dyno # then oh well. I'm sure someone else will have a strong car that dynos as high if not higher than the test car. It happens all the time. Dyno # on Supras varied tremendously. Different areas, dynos, temps, etc. Too many variables. Take it to the strip people to satisfy your curiousity. I could care less if I dyno 20awhp if I'm running 13's in the 1/4mi.
Dynos are for TUNING!

 

Uhm, approaching Mitsu with a bunch of timeslips and trap speeds will get you laughed out of their office in a matter of seconds. Produce a set of appropriate, well-documented dyno results and then you have an argument. Sorry, but that's the truth. Drag racing introduces a whole additional set of unnecessary variables over dyno testing. That's why one is called "testing" and the other is not.

If you want to see traps to satisfy your own personal curiosity, fine. But don't think that it's anything approaching a scientific test.

PLEASE don't make Evos the next F-body. A fate worse than F&F2...

 

Thanks for the summary Erik, it's really that simple, isn't it? Whether on likes the numbers or not doesn't make them any less valid.

To Claude:
The dyno is accurate. If Dynojet admits to adding a rather arbitrary 15% positive correction to their numbers and the other dynos, around the world, read 15% lower than the Dynojet, anyone reasonable can make some conclusions. But that's not even the point really. The issue, from the start, has been that the press cars have been putting more to the ground than the production cars. If you have any information that refutes that statement, let us know. This holds true whether tested on a Dynojet, Mustang, Maha, Bosch, etc,...

To ShapeGSX: I'm thoroughly impressed by your DSMLink engine control equalizer/fader. It looks like it would do a wonderful job controlling the frequency response of my stereo system. Before you make any conclusions of what we're working one, I'd suggest asking us. We are not working on a "chip." we are not working on something that offers any less flexibility than the DSMLink that you are so smitten by. From looking at those screen shots, I now see what your idea of engine control about and every one of your comments makes a lot more sense.

To everyone else. I'm sorry this thread has become so tainted with off-topic posts, making it very hard to even see what the underlying points are.

Cheers,
shiv

 

Mitsubishi is going to laugh at you no matter what you bring to them. Is this really what you hope to get out of this?