Engine Warm-up???
well if you talking general about gas engines. Any powered aircrafts fix or rotary
needs to be sit on the ground and warm up. we have to wait untill all gauges go in to the green zone. those engines very simular to the car engines. Fact, some use Subaru engine./those are experemental/ But aviation engines are not watercooled/exept subaru/. so if its the idle demage the engine, why we MUST warm it up before we go?and if we not flying we don't have efficent cooling . Why, if you flying cold engine you loosing your warranty?
And remember the aviation engines are aircooled.
Physics is physics,period. The engine parts made from different material wich is lead you to different rate of expanding,either cooling or warming. if you put them in extra stress, they will crack or separate from each other.plane and simple. All liquid material have also different pressure at different tempeture.the gaskets have also they limit,and when they cool they more rigid so less tolerance for pressure.this kind of "domino effect"
if you not sitting too long, then actually you not using more gas also. when chokie is in operating stage + you driving, you use alot more fuel./also very hars for spark plug etc./ if you wait untill the rpm drops, chokie is not riching the mixture anymore, you and up, useing the about same amont of fuel. this also true for the enviroment.so when you driving cool engine: your cat. is cold ,not really doing anything/takes a while when is start workin efficent/,you running much richer= more damage for the enviroment. ETC.
i hope i helped a little bit.
Thanks Rob
needs to be sit on the ground and warm up. we have to wait untill all gauges go in to the green zone. those engines very simular to the car engines. Fact, some use Subaru engine./those are experemental/ But aviation engines are not watercooled/exept subaru/. so if its the idle demage the engine, why we MUST warm it up before we go?and if we not flying we don't have efficent cooling . Why, if you flying cold engine you loosing your warranty?
And remember the aviation engines are aircooled.
Physics is physics,period. The engine parts made from different material wich is lead you to different rate of expanding,either cooling or warming. if you put them in extra stress, they will crack or separate from each other.plane and simple. All liquid material have also different pressure at different tempeture.the gaskets have also they limit,and when they cool they more rigid so less tolerance for pressure.this kind of "domino effect"
if you not sitting too long, then actually you not using more gas also. when chokie is in operating stage + you driving, you use alot more fuel./also very hars for spark plug etc./ if you wait untill the rpm drops, chokie is not riching the mixture anymore, you and up, useing the about same amont of fuel. this also true for the enviroment.so when you driving cool engine: your cat. is cold ,not really doing anything/takes a while when is start workin efficent/,you running much richer= more damage for the enviroment. ETC.
i hope i helped a little bit.
Thanks Rob
Air-craft engines go full throttle at take-off, car engines dont.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Air-craft engines go full throttle at take-off, car engines dont.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Idling for long periods of time will not cause **** toxins to build up or corrode anything (that really depends on the tune you have at idle, if you are running extremely rich, yes maybe you will build up carbon deposits). Having EGR, evaporative emissions, PCV, and all that other emissions BS WILL have the effect you are talking about.
Last edited by sonicnofadz; Jan 22, 2007 at 05:01 PM.
M5 manual says not to idle at all, just drive immediately. But, i saw a TV special on the Autobahn that said you get a ticket if you idle to warm up your car in Germany. Could this be why BMW and Audi say not to idle at all? Do any non-German cars say in the manual to not idle at all? i thought it was weird that M5 says not to idle since it has forged pistons, i always thought forged pistons need to be idled because they are run loose when they are cold, so you need to warm them before putting the engine under load, even low load from driving easy. and the manual saying not to idle may be from pressure from environmental lobby, rather than what is strictly best for the engine. Also i asked my bro who has a pilot license and he agreed about them still having to idle until all is warm, but he says his instructor told him it was because they take off at WOT as boostedwrx said, and also they run way more maintenance/hour of flight then cars do/hour of driving. plane is like a dragster, dangerous to run it cold because it is run at WOT when you go down the strip, and gets torn down often enough that any extra wear from idling is not a real issue.
not saying it definitely does damage, just saying there could be reasons why manuals say what they do and planes do what they do other than simply longevity of the engine. besides, as long as the engine lasts as long as the warranty, there is kind of an incentive to have it wear out so that they can charge to rebuild it
not saying it definitely does damage, just saying there could be reasons why manuals say what they do and planes do what they do other than simply longevity of the engine. besides, as long as the engine lasts as long as the warranty, there is kind of an incentive to have it wear out so that they can charge to rebuild it
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Can you type it out verbatim? I doubt it says not to let the car warm up at all. I wouldn't be surprised if it said not to let the car sit at idle in order to warmup. It would make no sense for Audi to tell its owner to romp on the engine before the engine oil has gotten to operating temps.
Didn't read through all of the pages, but my A6 manual says to not let the car idle to warm up, but rather to drive it and keep the rev's low until it gets warmed up.
Don't quote me though, i'm up at school.
Air-craft engines go full throttle at take-off, car engines dont.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
And when did this form become an avaition engine "How to?" I get the part that cars and planes have engines, but how is this revelant when the above quote "Air-craft enignes go full throttle at take-off, car engines dont." This was further proven by a pilot on one of the last few posts. I heard boats and helicopters have the same start-up routine. Oh yeah tanks and tractors also.
Alright, I see that many people who join this thread just now, don't feel like reading all of the 7 pages (I understand, I wouldn't want too).
So here is the summary:
Audi S4 manual says not to idle when warming up
BMW M5 manual says not to idle when warming up
Audi A6 manual says not to idle when warming up
My wife's Audi TT says not to idle when warming up
(We all agree that German cars don't want that)
Mitsu Evo manual says to start driving as soon as the needle moves
Any other?
So here is the summary:
Audi S4 manual says not to idle when warming up
BMW M5 manual says not to idle when warming up
Audi A6 manual says not to idle when warming up
My wife's Audi TT says not to idle when warming up
(We all agree that German cars don't want that)
Mitsu Evo manual says to start driving as soon as the needle moves
Any other?
Air-craft engines go full throttle at take-off, car engines dont.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
Reason #9837 why I won't buy a used car is because idiots warm their cars up for 15 minutes before they actually drive them.
Like Warrtalon has said, you car isn't operating at an optimal temperature and all the ****/toxins in your gas doesn't burn off it just corrodes you manifold, head, etc.
also, no brainer: NORMAL OPERATING TEMPETURE.
why they call like that? because also not normal operating tempeture exist, cold or hot.So then we have not normal temp,right ? how you drive the car when something is not normal?
if it s not normal or away you call it optimal ,when you drive it why would burn off easyer if it's more rich?
why is not normal or optimal operating temepeture from 0? why we even have that gauges if we don't need? why we do not have only red light to show /like most cars oil tempeture warning light/ when the engine is hot? why they care?
and etc.
also nothing personal. just opinion.
M5 manual says not to idle at all, just drive immediately. But, i saw a TV special on the Autobahn that said you get a ticket if you idle to warm up your car in Germany. Could this be why BMW and Audi say not to idle at all? Do any non-German cars say in the manual to not idle at all? i thought it was weird that M5 says not to idle since it has forged pistons, i always thought forged pistons need to be idled because they are run loose when they are cold, so you need to warm them before putting the engine under load, even low load from driving easy. and the manual saying not to idle may be from pressure from environmental lobby, rather than what is strictly best for the engine. Also i asked my bro who has a pilot license and he agreed about them still having to idle until all is warm, but he says his instructor told him it was because they take off at WOT as boostedwrx said, and also they run way more maintenance/hour of flight then cars do/hour of driving. plane is like a dragster, dangerous to run it cold because it is run at WOT when you go down the strip, and gets torn down often enough that any extra wear from idling is not a real issue.
not saying it definitely does damage, just saying there could be reasons why manuals say what they do and planes do what they do other than simply longevity of the engine. besides, as long as the engine lasts as long as the warranty, there is kind of an incentive to have it wear out so that they can charge to rebuild it
not saying it definitely does damage, just saying there could be reasons why manuals say what they do and planes do what they do other than simply longevity of the engine. besides, as long as the engine lasts as long as the warranty, there is kind of an incentive to have it wear out so that they can charge to rebuild it
germany...they want to get speed limit everywhere because enviroment... nothing to do with the car engine .in citys the speed limit is 25 miles or less why? enviroment. not warming the car why ? usually where you going less then 8-10 miles,why you sitting warming the car for 5 minutes driving @ 25-30 mph?
also most german change they car avarage 2 years...
also the planes are not running at WOT! They take off close to 90-100% power,but limited almost all of them 5 minutes take off power./some less -some more/ most of the time 60-75% constant power.
wich is 100 times better then variable engine load. they got year inspections . the whole aircraft.Safety that is all. And we see alots of 1940 -1970 etc plane running original engine...so much for warming up.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jan 23, 2007 at 05:22 AM.
Robevo RS, i think you misunderstood me. yes planes run at part throttle in the air, but they do WOT at takeoff. if it is not WOT then it is at least high load. Since takeoff comes before level flight, you need to warm it up at idle. you can not warm it by flying at low throttle, since takeoff is before level flight. that is why airplane warm up procedure is not applicable to automotive warm up. even if it is better not to warm up at idle, it is still better to warm up at idle than to not warm up at all. and the engines are rebuilt on less hours of use than car engines, which makes up for the extra wear from idling, if there is any. plus cars have more cold starts then planes tend to, so increased wear from cold starts in a plane would be less important
and yeah, germany does it for environmental reasons, that is why german manuals are not applicable to what is best for the Engine. i believe the question was what is best for the engine, not for the environment.
thus what planes and german manuals say can be ignored. i did not say what is better, i was just trying to show how planes and manuals are not conclusive.
and yeah, germany does it for environmental reasons, that is why german manuals are not applicable to what is best for the Engine. i believe the question was what is best for the engine, not for the environment.
thus what planes and german manuals say can be ignored. i did not say what is better, i was just trying to show how planes and manuals are not conclusive.
Last edited by CaliMR; Jan 23, 2007 at 01:01 PM.
I idle my car to warm it up for about 5 mins each morning.. once i had to leave right away due to an emergency and the car would not let me boost to my normal preasure untill it was properly warm.. now that i have it tuned and so on the car when cold misfires unless i let it warm up to the normal operating temperature.. so ill stick to warming it up just like the manual says...
I idle my car to warm it up for about 5 mins each morning.. once i had to leave right away due to an emergency and the car would not let me boost to my normal preasure untill it was properly warm.. now that i have it tuned and so on the car when cold misfires unless i let it warm up to the normal operating temperature.. so ill stick to warming it up just like the manual says...
. He is the only one posting this nonsence even after mutiple people (some professionals, even pilots, for some reason, and most importantly MITSUBISHI MOTORS OF AMERICA) all state the opposite. No one here has said or proved this to be fact. Warr. listed one of his cars lasted over 100k with his practice of "30 sec and go routine." Not that it was the main factor for his engine longevity. No one said warm-ups are bad, its the length of time idling, the correct time to use the engine at full load (boost)........
Last edited by BUCKNAKED; Jan 23, 2007 at 03:56 PM.