Why don't we sponsor a Vishnu and Dynoflash shootout somewhere in between CA and CT? It could be a dynoflash day and XEDE or XFlash day as well? I am sure if this feud was in NASIOC, those guys would at least set one up for these two tuners.

I am sure both would be willing, since AL is even very willing to drive his EVO all the way down to California. As big as this contest is building up to be, I am sure some magazines, even TV might want in on it! If we can't get them to get AL in their shhotout, maybe we can get them to get in on ours?

I would gladly volunteer to participate or even organize this event, but I got neither the bling, nor the time to do it.

STi

Also, I think SCC is losing out if they do not include AL in their shootout anyways. How can you exclude a vendor/tuner which offers the same or even better ECU reflash tune for half the price (specifically on mail-in reflashes, since a lot of people are far from CT or CA).

Their loss could be our gain.

[quote] Mr Friedman has come to fame by enlisting some of the very tuners you are featuring to help build his current and past offering.
This is the actual difference and should be noted. Mr. Feidman has declared himself a tuner only four short months ago. [quote]


MP5 - thats some funny stuff !!!!

Its funny how all the so called expert tuners who I "enlisted" to help build my "offerings" can't even beat my times on the track and the car has been out for almost a year - its a joke man

Not only is my car the quickest so far - i drive it every day - evcen in the snow with snow tires!

As most people know - way back three years ago when SCC had its SHAM WRX shootout - which Shiv won as usual with the rest of the field planted with slow pokes - - MY WRX I was driving back then was the fastest in the US and also a daily driver

I have been neck and neck for Shiv for three years - always in the lead - always one tick faster

I'll give Shiv this . . . . he is a master promotor and knows just whos butt to lick to keep on top - its no accident that he is always tuning the leaders of these forums - he was tuning Alex from i-club's car from back in the day also - - and he was smart to hook up with SCC magazine - - finally he has a very dedicated crew of followers who post up here

The only differnce between today and 3 years ago was when I was debating Shiv 3 years ago on the i-club - they acted like he was a god - a sacred cow . . . . these days there are a vast mutitude of anti - shiv DSMers and tuners who are onto his methods

My main thrust here to to open some eyes about what you read in those glossy magazines and see how it gets there

My last time at the track I ran 11.505 WITH NOS and 11.623 without any nos at 24 psi ! So I am currectly the fastest with NOS and without NOS

BTW - I agree its criminal to mention our names along with Mr. Buschur who is one of the great racers/tuners/manufacturers of our time

When Shiv insulted him by making fun of his country roots and pickup truck driving and beer drinking - - that was a real low class move

I for one am amazed and 100% impressed with the Buschur parts which concistantly work better than any other parts I have tuned with

Yeah, but it's much easier and more dramatic to say that I "cheat"

Cheers,
shiv

I really don't get this whole argument.. I always get the impression when I read SCC that its biased towards advertisers, but still..

We're talking about the people who are the best in the field.. But the truth is, this car has only been officially available in the USA for a year.. What that means to me is everyone is dealing with a learning curve, and the people with DSM experience definitely have a bit of an advantage.

I'm having a hard time trying to define what a "Tuner" is.. Most of the people I know consider me a "Tuner" because I am able to do all the things that tuners do, Fabricate parts, tune ECU's, engineer (yes using CAD) and design parts. However I am just one person, who does it for fun, and I frequently pay others to do things for me, to my spec's.. So I think anyone who tunes the cars and gets PAID to do it, should qualify as a tuner regardless of if they make parts, or optimizes others parts, as long as the results are repeatable, and the packages can be offered to others.

Now, with that said, I'm not defending anyone in particular. I've inadvertantly insulted nearly every one of the major tuners on the site, and I'm sure they all hate me at this point.

This all really does remind me of "East coast - west coast" rappers, or Ford vs Chevy, or any of the other rediculous Me vs you arguments that you can find..

Whenever I choose the parts that I work with, I choose them with an open mind, and the intent of making them work together. And it works for me.

Now, Al is a nice guy, and I've exchanged e-mails with him on several occasions, and he's been basically doing the things that I would be doing if I had the money to. And he IS a tuner.. but I have to agree with the quote from SCC.. From my perspective, he is a very knowledgable, capable, and enthusiastic CUSTOMER of products. It doesn't change the fact that he has a damn fast, and damn quick Evo, and the Flashing he is doing is his way of recouping the expense of the tools he purchased to work on his car. And there's nothing wrong with it. But by the nature of what SCC is using to Qualify a tuner shop, he just doesn't qualify as one. It takes nothing away from what he is doing, and what he is offering us for our cars.

OK.. Flame me now, I'm done.. (FWIW I'd like to see Buschur and Dynoflash included in the shootout)

(I didn't proofread this post, so don't give me too much hell on my rambling)

Sorry Al,

I forgot that you made runs the same night without nitrous. *(By the way, how come nitrous only helps .12 secs? )

All of you have different approaches. Why not have everyone with some reasonable fuel limitations, maybe even even supply the same 94 octane fuel to each competitor and require a stock turbo, and any add on mods or limit the amount of money that can be spent to something less than $5000. I just would like to see "tuner" comparisons rather than who has spent the most money. Anybody can build a bad car with an unlimited budget

Ya know.. Thats the best Idea I've heard so far..

No, that wouldn't show who was the best tuner. It would show who is the best drag racer.

Quarter mile accomplishments can be, and often are, completely independent of street tuning prowess. It's like saying that the best volleyball manufacturer is the one who can spike the ball the hardest.

this thing has come down to who has the biggest ****

why dont the both of you just pull your pants down and see who has the bigger **** and be done with it!

<--- had a few beers tonight

One mans dramatic is anothers calling it like it is.

apples to apples shiv thats all Im saying you would have cried foul if one of them ran slick wouldnt you? (let me guess rules wouldnt allow that)

And like it or not it was a cheater move to claim that you owned those other guys in a comparison when most if not all of the prowess you showed can be attributed to the tires. Infact the suspension set up you ran could have been markedly worse than those your competitors ran but the tires would have more than made up for it. You would be more credible if you didnt do things like this and pick fights with specialist tuners in every new market and model you foray into, and run tires that could compensate for poor suspension set ups.

As for some ones previous statement that this should be for established tuners only the Vishnu should stay home too, they are a WRX tuner, oh no wait a Miata tunner? but what about the coming porsches? now Im confused.

While Im on my horse Vishnu started tuning with the EVo 8 they are not established, any more than this AL character, what they have seniority because they bought their EVO 10 months earlier? Either pick a car stay with it and become the holy of holies in tunning those cars or admit you can possibly know everything about all of the cars you fix up and start behaving accordingly.

Get volunteers with box stock EVO's to volunteer their cars for tuner rebuilds. Give each tuner a week to do his best to the car. Stock tires, wheels, gearing. The only mods available would be exhausts, cams, cam gears, boost/fuel controllers, etc. In other words, only bolt-on items. Then have them tune them using whatever method they desire, ie. Xede, Dynoflash, etc. Then Race them side by side on the same day. (Clutches might have to be allowed, but that would add a ton of cost.)

Uhm, absinthe? Vishnu's core business is as an engine tuner. All those cars you mention, last I checked, have engines. Engines that can be [gasp] tuned [/gasp].

Even if Al has his own tuner shootout in the Spring who is to say whether Shiv or anyone else will show?

Shiv, do you plan to attend if such an event is held?

I agree that there should be a limit in how much money could be spent, what fuel is used, and what tires are run. This would allow the customers to be able to make the best decisions on what to buy. Afterall this is all about providing the customer w/ the best possible product in terms of perfomance and value. The problem w/ this is Al already has spent some serious coin on his car. So the event would have to be set up as an all out event--- unlimited---

Alan

I am tempted to be a smartass here, but I'll be nice. You may have noticed that all of the disagreement centered around drag racing times so that is what I addressed. The only other thing that I understand you might be referring to would be lap times at a track. I am sure you would agree that would be just as senseless since that is almost totally dependent on the drivers ability. So what is your point??