View Poll Results: Choose which ones will influence your decision
Wow, 300hp, 300 ft-lbs from 2.5L Subaru boxer engine
152
22.25%
Proven tuning potential of the Mitsubishi 4G63
355
51.98%
Subaru\'s strong 6-speed manual tranny
138
20.20%
Mitsubishi\'s dependable 5-speed tranny
109
15.96%
DCCD on the STi... wish Evo had ACD
132
19.33%
Stock FMIC on the Evo
164
24.01%
Exterior looks
305
44.66%
Interior quality
148
21.67%
Gross Vehicle Weight
79
11.57%
I want to test drive both before deciding
165
24.16%
Price
261
38.21%
Body Shell Rigidity
133
19.47%
Brakes
163
23.87%
0 - 60 mph and 1/4 mile times
201
29.43%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 683. You may not vote on this poll
Evo vs. STI | Anything and Everything [ALL THREADS MERGED]
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Regarding this and the following sour grapes comment, guys, wake up and smell the coffee. Everyone just put down your weapons, egos, preferences and religious brand crusades.
Car companies give journalists ringers.
C&D's 5.4 second WRX was a ringer. Looks like Mitsubishi sent ringers to most of the journalists this time around. Respected tuners have dyno'ed some of these cars and said as much. The Evo out accelerating the STi is just silly.
But forget all that. Does it really matter? I think not.
Drive both cars and pick the one you like.
Car companies give journalists ringers.
C&D's 5.4 second WRX was a ringer. Looks like Mitsubishi sent ringers to most of the journalists this time around. Respected tuners have dyno'ed some of these cars and said as much. The Evo out accelerating the STi is just silly.
But forget all that. Does it really matter? I think not.
Drive both cars and pick the one you like.
Originally posted by davidw333
How do you know Mitsubishi did that? Seriously, I'm not here to question your credibility. I just want to understand the situation because since we cannot test drive these cars and I have no friends that own the EVO, I can only rely on these forums and magazine tests to help me decide on which car to buy.
Thanks,
Dave
How do you know Mitsubishi did that? Seriously, I'm not here to question your credibility. I just want to understand the situation because since we cannot test drive these cars and I have no friends that own the EVO, I can only rely on these forums and magazine tests to help me decide on which car to buy.
Thanks,
Dave
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Los Angles, CA
Originally posted by davidw333
How do you know Mitsubishi did that? Seriously, I'm not here to question your credibility. I just want to understand the situation because since we cannot test drive these cars and I have no friends that own the EVO, I can only rely on these forums and magazine tests to help me decide on which car to buy.
Thanks,
Dave
How do you know Mitsubishi did that? Seriously, I'm not here to question your credibility. I just want to understand the situation because since we cannot test drive these cars and I have no friends that own the EVO, I can only rely on these forums and magazine tests to help me decide on which car to buy.
Thanks,
Dave
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=16671
Also, you can read here for more information:
http://www.vishnuwrx.com/lancer.htm
I am still waiting on official Mitsubishi response that Shiv once promised will reveal to us. However, with the evidence so far, I am more toward to believe Mitsu did that for marketing reasons and will probably will never admit it.
From the evidence that Shiv provided, I, as a consumer just don’t wish to see Mitsu uses false information for magazine testing. I just want honest information.
Originally posted by nykwan
Yeah, you're right, I bet those grapes were sour anyway....
Yeah, you're right, I bet those grapes were sour anyway....
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
I had the exact JDM STI C spec 2001 - engine - ecu - drivetrain etc in my US WRX and it ran 100% fine on 94 octane
Its the 91 octane **** CA gas that causes the problem - - and its the same story in the UK also
I had the exact JDM STI C spec 2001 - engine - ecu - drivetrain etc in my US WRX and it ran 100% fine on 94 octane
Its the 91 octane **** CA gas that causes the problem - - and its the same story in the UK also
Originally posted by 909
Bryan,
No disrespect to you or anyone, but from our posts, you can already tell that we're into aftermarket parts, hence our reasoning for disliking the 2.5. If we didn't intend to modify our cars, STi will be the car to get.
Our purchase is not dependent on the US magazine reviews whatsoever. We know what the Evo can do from the Japanese magazines and we're going toward that direction.
The whole point of Japanese Turbo cars is to have fun with the aftermarket parts. Also the reason why I initially stepped down from my 2001 911 Turbo to the WRX and now the Evo.
Bryan,
No disrespect to you or anyone, but from our posts, you can already tell that we're into aftermarket parts, hence our reasoning for disliking the 2.5. If we didn't intend to modify our cars, STi will be the car to get.
Our purchase is not dependent on the US magazine reviews whatsoever. We know what the Evo can do from the Japanese magazines and we're going toward that direction.
The whole point of Japanese Turbo cars is to have fun with the aftermarket parts. Also the reason why I initially stepped down from my 2001 911 Turbo to the WRX and now the Evo.
Imagine this, Subaru’s marketing guys ask their technical guys to design a USDM 300hp H-4 turbo engine by using JDM EJ20 8000rpm motor with more boost then JDM. The technical guys said f*ck no because our warranty guys will took it to the *** due the 91 octane gas. Then the marketing guys ask “what can we do?” The technical guys reply “Let me try to increase another 0.5L of displacement”
You are right; our purpose is not completely depending on US magazines. However, we live in U.S. what they suggested will greatly affect the sales of both cars. And the sales volume will determine if the manufacture will continue to import this car to U.S. or not. And ultimately, it will affect us.
Have fun guys
-Bryan
Last edited by Diuney888; May 13, 2003 at 05:53 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
As "impure" as it may be, I think that Subaru bumping the STi those 500cc is a stroke of genius for the US market.
As a WRX driver (looking seriously at BOTH new contenders, and frankly leaning toward the Evo, but with concerns) the lowend on a 2000cc car (WRX) sucks. It seriously handicapps the daily driving experience. Twin scroll goes some way toward fixing that, but there's no replacement for displacement!
The great part about it is that Mitsu's best reply is 500cc's to counter the STi...
Welcome to the new muscle car battle! This time they handle as well as they go fast!
Wooo hooo!
Doing a double take...
If Mitsu is "forced" to bump to 2500cc, should I really buy an Evo now...
Ahhhh... Life is soooo difficult...
As a WRX driver (looking seriously at BOTH new contenders, and frankly leaning toward the Evo, but with concerns) the lowend on a 2000cc car (WRX) sucks. It seriously handicapps the daily driving experience. Twin scroll goes some way toward fixing that, but there's no replacement for displacement!
The great part about it is that Mitsu's best reply is 500cc's to counter the STi...
Welcome to the new muscle car battle! This time they handle as well as they go fast!
Wooo hooo!
Doing a double take...
If Mitsu is "forced" to bump to 2500cc, should I really buy an Evo now...
Ahhhh... Life is soooo difficult...
Originally posted by Evilution
Mark my words, Evo's will be faster for less money than the STi. I just have a gut feeling there will be problems with the new 2.5 motor. Have some fun with the coolest 4 banger on the planet.
Mark my words, Evo's will be faster for less money than the STi. I just have a gut feeling there will be problems with the new 2.5 motor. Have some fun with the coolest 4 banger on the planet.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Originally posted by chrisw
No they [Evo] won't [be faster, cheaper than the STi]. But, based upon the availability of the STI, who do you think will be more willing to modify their car?
No they [Evo] won't [be faster, cheaper than the STi]. But, based upon the availability of the STI, who do you think will be more willing to modify their car?
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Los Angles, CA
Originally posted by kurichan
Regarding this and the following sour grapes comment, guys, wake up and smell the coffee. Everyone just put down your weapons, egos, preferences and religious brand crusades.
Car companies give journalists ringers.
C&D's 5.4 second WRX was a ringer. Looks like Mitsubishi sent ringers to most of the journalists this time around. Respected tuners have dyno'ed some of these cars and said as much. The Evo out accelerating the STi is just silly.
But forget all that. Does it really matter? I think not.
Drive both cars and pick the one you like.
Regarding this and the following sour grapes comment, guys, wake up and smell the coffee. Everyone just put down your weapons, egos, preferences and religious brand crusades.
Car companies give journalists ringers.
C&D's 5.4 second WRX was a ringer. Looks like Mitsubishi sent ringers to most of the journalists this time around. Respected tuners have dyno'ed some of these cars and said as much. The Evo out accelerating the STi is just silly.
But forget all that. Does it really matter? I think not.
Drive both cars and pick the one you like.
I agree everything you said, except 2 minor details.
1. Can you show me any additional evidence about WRX ringer car? I am really curious.
2. False information matters to us. Remember Mazda first claim 155hp on their second gen Miata and Hyundai claim 181hp for Tiburon? Someone must have protested and they reduced the claim HP number soon after. If I remember right, Mazda even offered free return for any unsatisfied new Miata owners.
Sadly to say, performance numbers will affect big group of buyers, and sales affect the cars I can buy in the future, so I don't want ringers cars in magazines!
-Bryan
Last edited by Diuney888; May 13, 2003 at 02:56 PM.
Originally posted by kurichan
I'm sorry if I'm being really dense here, but I don't get your point. Who are you saying will be more willing to modify, and why?
I'm sorry if I'm being really dense here, but I don't get your point. Who are you saying will be more willing to modify, and why?
With the limited quantities of the STI, I certainly would not modify it but keep it stock as a collector car. I would be more inclined to modd an EVO because of the expected sales of the EVO (future spare parts
)
Re: STi fan sell his soul to EVO
Originally posted by IS2000
I went to my Subaru dealer today and my salesman told me he will sell the car on 1st come 1st serve basis. 25 Serious buyers are on the list, and they will get like 5-6 cars for the rest of the year. Well, maybe I'll wait until next year, but now I got to have my toy.
It's a white EVO8
I went to my Subaru dealer today and my salesman told me he will sell the car on 1st come 1st serve basis. 25 Serious buyers are on the list, and they will get like 5-6 cars for the rest of the year. Well, maybe I'll wait until next year, but now I got to have my toy.
It's a white EVO8
Newbie
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: SoCAL
re: sti upgrading... for power, i've HEARD (emphasis on HEARD) that it's not very upgrade friendly.something to do with the new drive by wire throttle body it uses. other than that, i really don't know any other detail.
oh, and i tend to believe that subaru upped the anty on the sti motor out of necestiy, not because they're necesarily genuises. subaru had a goal of 300hp and 300lb/ft torque (in order to beat the evo) and the only way to achieve that on US pump gas would be to utilize a larger motor.
my 2c
greg
) that it's not very upgrade friendly.something to do with the new drive by wire throttle body it uses. other than that, i really don't know any other detail.oh, and i tend to believe that subaru upped the anty on the sti motor out of necestiy, not because they're necesarily genuises. subaru had a goal of 300hp and 300lb/ft torque (in order to beat the evo) and the only way to achieve that on US pump gas would be to utilize a larger motor.
my 2c
greg
Evolved Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
From: Earth
What's this stuff about the Evo being a ringer? 
Come on, we've heard it before. The STi was most likely in the form of a ringer too. Ask Shiv about the STi he drove, and he'll tell you it was pinging like a *****.
Come on, we've heard it before. The STi was most likely in the form of a ringer too. Ask Shiv about the STi he drove, and he'll tell you it was pinging like a *****.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Good points.
For starters, please take my statements in the context of choosing between the STi and the Evo. That was my intention based on the thread, but it wasn't as clear as it could have been.
That being said, I strongly agree that published HP numbers need to be correct. Ford had a problem with the SVT Cobra recently. But providing ringers to journalists for 0-60 times, while unethical, makes me sort of shrug my shoulders (maybe my stress management attempts are finally working!).
Read the articles with a grain of salt. Believe them as much as you choose to, drive the cars, do your other research and make your choice is my point.
Regarding evidence of the 5.4 C&D WRX ringer, my only evidence is that no other magazine has pulled that number, including all the WRXs C&D itself has tested since then. There was actually a recent cynical comment in C&D about that famous 5.4 time.
For starters, please take my statements in the context of choosing between the STi and the Evo. That was my intention based on the thread, but it wasn't as clear as it could have been.
That being said, I strongly agree that published HP numbers need to be correct. Ford had a problem with the SVT Cobra recently. But providing ringers to journalists for 0-60 times, while unethical, makes me sort of shrug my shoulders (maybe my stress management attempts are finally working!).
Read the articles with a grain of salt. Believe them as much as you choose to, drive the cars, do your other research and make your choice is my point.
Regarding evidence of the 5.4 C&D WRX ringer, my only evidence is that no other magazine has pulled that number, including all the WRXs C&D itself has tested since then. There was actually a recent cynical comment in C&D about that famous 5.4 time.
Originally posted by Diuney888
I agree everything you said, except 2 minor details.
1. Can you show me any additional evidence about WRX ringer car? I am really curious.
2. False information matters to us. Remember Mazda first claim 155hp on their second gen Miata and Hyundai claim 181hp for Tiburon? Someone must have protested and they reduced the claim HP number soon after. If I remember right, Mazda even offered free return for any unsatisfied new Miata owners.
Sadly to say, performance numbers will affect big group of buyers, and sales affect the cars I can buy in the future, so I don't want ringers cars in magazines!
-Bryan
I agree everything you said, except 2 minor details.
1. Can you show me any additional evidence about WRX ringer car? I am really curious.
2. False information matters to us. Remember Mazda first claim 155hp on their second gen Miata and Hyundai claim 181hp for Tiburon? Someone must have protested and they reduced the claim HP number soon after. If I remember right, Mazda even offered free return for any unsatisfied new Miata owners.
Sadly to say, performance numbers will affect big group of buyers, and sales affect the cars I can buy in the future, so I don't want ringers cars in magazines!
-Bryan
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Pottstown, PA
Originally posted by DonJohnson
re: sti upgrading... for power, i've HEARD (emphasis on HEARD) that it's not very upgrade friendly.something to do with the new drive by wire throttle body it uses. other than that, i really don't know any other detail.
oh, and i tend to believe that subaru upped the anty on the sti motor out of necestiy, not because they're necesarily genuises. subaru had a goal of 300hp and 300lb/ft torque (in order to beat the evo) and the only way to achieve that on US pump gas would be to utilize a larger motor.
my 2c
greg
re: sti upgrading... for power, i've HEARD (emphasis on HEARD
) that it's not very upgrade friendly.something to do with the new drive by wire throttle body it uses. other than that, i really don't know any other detail.oh, and i tend to believe that subaru upped the anty on the sti motor out of necestiy, not because they're necesarily genuises. subaru had a goal of 300hp and 300lb/ft torque (in order to beat the evo) and the only way to achieve that on US pump gas would be to utilize a larger motor.
my 2c
greg
DBW programming is more time-consuming, but by no means is it impossible.
However... a cable throttle and any associated ECU tuning is easier to manage, though.I'm sure Vishnu or any other Subaru tuner will figure out DBW tuning methods relatively quickly.
Evolved Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
EVO VS STi now on-line
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
From: Melbourne, FL
Sports Car magazine looks at the STI...
And once again the end decision is for the Evo, from the two drivers testing the cars together on their track...
and
... It's a clear battle of brawn versus finesse, and the Subaru seems to have plenty of the former but not enough of the latter.
This round clearly goes to the car wearing the diamond star.