Notices
Evo How Tos / Installations Post or link to your detailed how to / installation articles in here. If you have any questions regarding the how tos, feel free to post them in the Request sub-forum.

Walbro 450 lph e85 fuel pump diy evo 8/9

 
Old Aug 30, 2017, 11:47 PM
  #286  
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: in a garage
Posts: 714
Liked 21 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by 2winscroll View Post

All those numbers fredthemeathead is throwing out there are totally useless. Why do you care what a pump flows at zero pressure? Unless I see pictures of the test equipment I'm calling total BS.

Lol a 255 pump delivers 400 liters an hour @ 80psi, NFW! You could put 40 volts on that beatch and it wouldn't do tha kinda flow @ 80psi.

This guy is needs to be banned for blatant lies!


It's pretty obvious you're the one coming out with all the bull****, no idea about electronics or constant current power supplies or flow or pressure or tuning or pretty much anything else.



Zero pressure........that's an easy baseline test which is done first. Gives a direct comparison to the official Wally 450 specs here.

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-f9...-fuel-pump-e85

A pump always flows less volume with an FPR hooked up to it, more volume at zero pressure.
That's also it's minimum current draw which is handy if you want to make a power supply to control it.
A walbro 450 l/h pump at 80 PSI, 381 l/h, 13.5V, 18.6A = 250W
A walbro 255 l/h pump at 80PSI, 400 l/h, 22V , 14A = 310W.

There's always a close correlation between power consumption and fuel movement.
The difference is due to efficiency.



You've never done any pump or injector testing?
You can't do injector testing unless you've done pump and FPR testing first.

Got to have stable pressure and known pump flow.

Then you can move on to things like this


Then bigger and better things.

.

Last edited by RightSaid fred; Aug 31, 2017 at 01:02 AM.
RightSaid fred is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2017, 04:29 AM
  #287  
Evolved Member
 
2winscroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 740
Liked 60 Times in 52 Posts
I know nothing about electronics ehh???

I'm an electrical engineer and wisconsin state certified master electrician. I work in one of the most technologically advanced paper mills in the world. My big toe has more knowledge about electrical controls than you will ever have period. I maintain two steam turbines and one hydro electric dam site also five different boilers and two paper machines. Our facilitiy probably uses more electricity than your entire country of New Zealand.

I'm not impressed with your homemade "fire hazard" flow bench, looks like some high school class project gone wrong.

So your telling me a wally 255 will flow 400lph @ 80psi 22v?
That's more than a double pumper (twin 255's) @ 13.5v each.
So adding 8 volts gets you well over double pump output? Wow magical efficiency!





As you can see a Wally 255hp flows under 200lph @80psi, so achieving over double the output with 8 volts is not believable for me.

As for injector testing it's not needed for tuning. All my injectors come as matched sets. As long as you hold your fuel pressure linear with boost/vacuum reference your good. Some guys are running pumps that flow twice as much as they need, not a big deal it just goes back to the tank in the return line.

How do you not understand that a constant current source is much better than straight up resistor?
Im not talking about a voltage booster just a replacement for a resistive circuit.
Oh yea a chunk of wire is the best way.....my azzz.
2winscroll is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2017, 05:03 AM
  #288  
Evolved Member
 
2winscroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 740
Liked 60 Times in 52 Posts


Steam gen #1



Steam gen #2



High voltage switchgear only electricians can enter this room.





one of the many hydro generation wheels at the dam



Vessel heater electrical project I just completed

There's my resume on electrical but I'm sure yours is far better.

I work on vehicles for fun and it employs my son.
I'm an electrical engineer as my main employment, so your WAY OFF telling me "I know nothing about electronics"

Last edited by 2winscroll; Aug 31, 2017 at 05:23 AM.
2winscroll is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2017, 09:18 AM
  #289  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
letsgetthisdone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,996
Liked 661 Times in 625 Posts
Originally Posted by 2winscroll View Post

So your telling me a wally 255 will flow 400lph @ 80psi 22v?
That's more than a double pumper (twin 255's) @ 13.5v each.
So adding 8 volts gets you well over double pump output? Wow magical efficiency!



As you can see a Wally 255hp flows under 200lph @80psi, so achieving over double the output with 8 volts is not believable for me.

You forgot about the law of physics that says you can create something from nothing....oh wait...
letsgetthisdone is offline  
Old Aug 31, 2017, 11:39 AM
  #290  
EvoM Super Moderator
iTrader: (3)
 
MinusPrevious's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: So.Cal
Posts: 5,707
Liked 754 Times in 719 Posts
Gents

This has been a good debate, and clearly the discussion is touching on the higher levels of automotive electrical properties

If you guys could argue the points w/out the insults, it would make for a much better thread discussion.

Thread closed but my reopen later on
MinusPrevious is offline  
Old Jul 11, 2018, 09:38 AM
  #291  
Evolving Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 273
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
few days back did this exact installation according instructions from OP.
It worked like a charm. Spot on!
Kevin Troy is offline  
Old Aug 14, 2018, 07:33 AM
  #292  
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
 
toner_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the howto. This saved me significant $$$
toner_b is offline  
Old Oct 9, 2018, 06:15 AM
  #293  
Newbie
 
inin36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Singapore
Posts: 77
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
*solved

Last edited by inin36; Oct 14, 2018 at 08:08 PM.
inin36 is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2018, 05:37 AM
  #294  
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
 
mrfred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
Posts: 9,620
Liked 86 Times in 72 Posts
I have run into a surprising situation with the Walbro 450. For the last several years, I have been running the standard version (F90000267) of the W450 what has the pressure relief valve set to crack at about 85 psi. Net fuel pressure (rail pressure minus boost) has always dropped off at peak fuel demand. Th happens at a rail pressure of ~75 psi, but with flow induced pressure loses from the -6 AN fuel line (est. to be ~4-6 psi) and from the stock fuel filter (could be >10 psi), I have been estimating the pressure at the pump to be >90 psi. To eliminate these issues, I upgraded to the high pressure version (F90000274) of the W450 that has the relief valve set to crack at 110 psi, bypassed the stock fuel filter, and installed a Fuelab fiberglass element filter. I also installed a new W450 sock. I was certain that this combination of upgrades would resolve my fuel pressure issue, but to my surprise, pressure is still falling off.

This caused me to look more carefully at the flow capacity for this pump. Flow charts show that at 13.5 V, the pump can flow ~5000 cc/min, while at 12 V, it flows ~4000 cc/min. My current setup with 1500 cc/min injectors is hitting 80-83% IDC at peak flow requirement (about 550 whp on E85). This translates to ~5000 cc/min flow rate. The only way the pump is going to meet that demand is if its getting 13.5 V, and that's never happened. Last time I measured voltage across the pump at full power, I saw 12.8 V with my custom fuel pump rewire that utilizes 8 ga wiring. The estimated pump flow rate at this voltage is pretty consistent with the level of fuel pressure fall-off that I'm seeing (dropping to around 40 psi instead of the target 44.5 psi). Battery voltage hovers consistently at 14 V with the engine running, but even with further wiring mods, its doubtful that 13.5 V at the pump is possible. So besides improving the power wiring, it looks like I'm going to have to upgrade to the Hellcat version (F90000285) of the W450 that flows about 10% higher.
mrfred is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2018, 09:30 AM
  #295  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
2006EvoIXer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Posts: 2,802
Liked 130 Times in 123 Posts
Interesting! Guess the 450 draws enough power to still drop the voltage. I'm surprised 8-awg isn't enough to supply the current without drawing the voltage down. Now I'm curious to see how much my rewire will drop with the 450 (274 version) pump.
2006EvoIXer is offline  
Old Dec 26, 2018, 07:37 PM
  #296  
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
 
mrfred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tri-Cities, WA // Portland, OR
Posts: 9,620
Liked 86 Times in 72 Posts
Originally Posted by 2006EvoIXer View Post
Interesting! Guess the 450 draws enough power to still drop the voltage. I'm surprised 8-awg isn't enough to supply the current without drawing the voltage down. Now I'm curious to see how much my rewire will drop with the 450 (274 version) pump.
Unless you're logging fuel pressure at the rail, fuel pressure fall-off is not obvious until it becomes substantial. It initially manifests as having to set the fuel map AFR richer than the target AFR at high RPM + high boost. Most people assume that this is simply a calibration issue with the ECU fuel map, and often it is. However, when fuel drop off starts getting really bad, richening the fuel map will have no effect on AFR past a certain point.

Last edited by mrfred; Dec 26, 2018 at 08:11 PM.
mrfred is offline  
The following users liked this post: mrfred
2006EvoIXer (Dec 27, 2018)
Old Dec 27, 2018, 04:23 AM
  #297  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (8)
 
IzzyRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 857
Liked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Not sure if this was addressed yet. For those of you that do not want to deal with swelling heat shrink when you solder the connector on the pump, Spoolinup has the pins you need. I tried various "fuel safe" heat shrink tubing but never found one that worked properly.

IzzyRS is offline  
Old Dec 27, 2018, 12:50 PM
  #298  
Evolved Member
iTrader: (1)
 
2006EvoIXer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California
Posts: 2,802
Liked 130 Times in 123 Posts
Originally Posted by IzzyRS View Post
Not sure if this was addressed yet. For those of you that do not want to deal with swelling heat shrink when you solder the connector on the pump, Spoolinup has the pins you need. I tried various "fuel safe" heat shrink tubing but never found one that worked properly.

​​​​​​I saw that Pal had encountered this. I plan to rewire to the plug myself to avoid exposed wires midway.
2006EvoIXer is offline  
Old Dec 29, 2018, 01:43 AM
  #299  
Evolving Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 273
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Wires are exposed in fuel any way because they are submerged. Weather you isolate it in shrink foil or like this. But this way looks way better
Kevin Troy is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
chinoxmk22
For Sale - Cars For Sale
0
Sep 5, 2017 07:16 PM
Bike Mech
Evo X How Tos / Installations
36
Jun 16, 2017 03:30 PM
ryukinevo
For Sale - Part Outs
114
Apr 18, 2017 06:35 AM
ryukinevo
For Sale - Part Outs
35
Mar 29, 2016 12:09 PM
Guzm4n
Project Cars and Build Threads
6
Mar 11, 2016 06:25 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Walbro 450 lph e85 fuel pump diy evo 8/9


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.