I run the Invidia 3" DP & I spaced my bars down.

IMO. Doesn't matter whether someone notes that you wont feel the diff. Mitsubishi engineers put them there for a reason. Either space them down or buy an aftermarket subframe. "Run the Bars" =)

Peace

 

the stock bars are better than nothing, but if you ever held them in your hand you would see how flimsy they really are. I took them off becuase they didnt clear my rmr dp. I was gonna try and space them and put them back on. 5 autox later I remembered I never put them back on. Didnt notice any difference to be honest. I agree, Im sure mitsu put them on there for a reason-- so I would rather upgrade it to some aftermarket piece that is actually stiff and more functional, which I will probably do soon. If you really are concerned about structural rigidity dont waste your time spacing the oem bars, get a an aftermarket one that actually will do something.

 

I'd bet money that spacing the tie bars down with the solid 1/2" thick SS spacer we supply will have no effect what-so-ever on the "performance" of the bars. There is no lock/locator on the stock tie bars, so moving them down a 1/2" does nothing but ensures your down pipe doesn't rattle.

If you look back to all the debating and such that went on a few years ago about downpipes and our spacers you will find that back then I said that anyone buying a 3" downpipe that didn't come with them would eventually need them anyway, the reason for this is the factory soft motor mounts sag in every car over time. As the mounts sags the downpipe drops in height. Foresite is a good thing, comes with experience.

 

^ Good info, thanks Dave.

 

Hey, the last time I had a flat tire I could tell. When I came out of KMart the car was leaning to one side. Also, it was pouring down rain, another sure sign.

 

I bent one of my tie bars, took both off and never looked back. they're a round cross section bar so they're relatively flexible and therefore useless in my mind.

 

I bought my car used, and when I went to install my buschur exhaust I found that those tie bars had already been removed by the previous owner. Now I'm not sure if the part did anything or not but I bought a RMR Front Lower Tie K brace to replace the 2 bars that were missing and it defiantly felt like it made a different during auto-x. Normal or spirited street driving would probably have no effect at all. I also used the super thick washers provided by Buschur to gain more clearance .

And as far as the oem bars being relatively flexible (which is true from what I've understood) remember they are designed to sustain forces going parallel to the bar so it being stretched or compressed, and not forces bending the bar in half. Granted, I do feel the oem bars are cheap which is why I did not go buy new ones and got the RMR product which feels far more solid.

 

It really makes a difference on rough roads we have here in the N.Y.C. region.

I've added and upgraded lower braces, and can actually feel the steering to be more responsive. Cusco Type 2, Beatrush.., it was worth it for me.
I am on Bistein MR with Swifts.

I guess if you are on a smooth surface going straight, it hardly makes a difference.

 

Dave doesn't turn... of course they don't matter when your car is parked or going down the drag strip.

Dave sells these because the only way to make a downpipe fit through these braces is to get your mfg tolerances rediculously good. Which would require more time/money... its cheaper and easier with less hassle for him to sell spacers than it would be to thread the eye of the needle.

The factory braces leave a lot to be desired... you're better off fabricating your own triagulated bracing that has more clearance.

 

Are there any braces that don't require the spacers? I think I may just try to buy a few more spacers and try to make the bars work.

 

R/T you are incorrect and just talking to hear yourself talk.

We don't turn? Intersting, you forget the Magnum? Forget about NASA and my running TT? Forget about the Winged Warrior competition I do quite well at each year? Yes, maybe you did.

Tight tolerances? Hmm, more talk. Did you miss the part about the engine mounts sagging? Did you miss it where I knew this would be a problem in the years to come so we put the spacers in to begin with? Our downpipes do NOT hit the tie bars on a new car with fresh engine mounts in them, engine mounts don't stay fresh though, they sag and when they do the downpipes ALL hit the tie bars. So any full 3" downpipe, just as this Megan is doing, is going to hit the stock bars without spacers as the front/rear engine mount get softer and sag more and more.

Thanks for your useless input though..............

 

You did... you don't.

What series did you compete in and how did you place?

 

That is what you said, since your memory is shorter than I thought.

The fact is I DO turn. The other fact is I do NOT "sell these" at all, we supply them in our kit and it's because the engine mounts in ALL cars with rubber mounts will eventually sag and in a design with something running under the exhaust or a set of headers close to a cross member, motor mount or anything else it is going to eventually cause clearance problems.

This thread is NOT about a clearance issue on a Buschur Racing part, it's about a Megan part that didn't come with spacers, was fine originally and now has clearance issues. Invidia is also mentioned in here needing spacers. I guess all of us are incapable of "threading the needle". If only we were all blessed with having you building production parts, man that would be awesome..........

As for what class we DID run, TTU and Unlimited Time Attack and I have quite a few 1st place trophies from the few races we ran the two years we did it, thanks. I currently run with NASA, doing the actual driving myself. I'd venture to bet I'm faster than most.

The point is as I already said, 99% of the people here will never know if the tie braces are on the car or off of it, I'll put you in that 99%.

You make snide remarks about what I do or don't do in our manufacturing and racing all in support of running the stock tie bars then go on to say they are flimsy and you are better off making something else to replace them............oh the irony of it all......

 

I would suspect the load would be in tension/compression so the round design would work well. The tension/compression loads are transferred to the bolts as shear forces when the bar is snug to the frame. If you add the spacers it creates a small moment arm as the bolt is extended from the frame by the spacers. I would also add that the spacer needs to have sufficient surface area to help transfer the loads to the bar and not just the flattened ends.

The small moment arm created by the spacers is so minor it is not a problem for the bolt to handle. Also, because the spacers have sufficient surface area I suspect the bolts are still primarily loaded in shear and not as a moment arm. Bottom line, adding spacers won't affect the performance of the bar. If it was an issue you would see bent bolts.

I went to Autozone and got good quality Grade 10.9 zinc plated metric bolts that were longer and added about 1/2 inch worth of spacers. I have been running this for 2 years and when the bolts are removed they are still straight.

 

replies within Dave!


To reiterate my point... I've made a few downpipes that don't rub either brace, the ACD, the oil pan, or the subframe. Through centering the downpipe in the hole through careful fabrication and LOTS of test fitting... I run the stock unspaced lateral bars without slapping the downpipe on anything. I'm saying its not cost effective for you to make a downpipe to that high of a tolerance +/- 1/32" to 1/16".... rather much easier to make spacers just in case. You'd be retarded to try and sell a downpipe that took that long to fabricate... you would have to charge a lot of money and then still as you stated...some customers with worn out engine mounts would complain and say they rub after 30k miles of use. You could sell them engine mounts... or you could ship two super cheap to make spacers. Logic would say to do what you did.

You can take everything as an attack on you... and try to insult me...or realize that I'm justifying your decision to include spacers in your kit rather than hold ridiculous tolerances. Furthermore, the factory braces are there to stiffen the subframe which houses the FLCA's As you could surmise with your infinite wisdom and experience having the wheel change toe and camber during bump is not good...and I bet 99.9% of the people on this forum or in the racing community cannot feel dynamic camber and toe changes. But... I'm confident that if those people have some concept of vehicle dynamics they'll agree that uncontrolled dynamic camber and toe changes during bump/droop is bad.