HKS drop-in filter with AP...
Hey Y'all,
We tested the HKS drop-in filter today on our Evo X GSR. The drop in filter alone leans out the fuel curve an average of 0.5 AFR points across the board during a WOT pull. That's a pretty significant change to the point where we may need to create a map to bring the AFRs back where we want them.
When I get back from Holiday on Monday, I will talk with the tuners. For now I still have to say the filter may be unsafe to run with our mapping.
FYI, the power curves were almost identical between stock and the HKS filter. There was a small gain above 6500 RPM.
Happy Holidays!
Rob
We tested the HKS drop-in filter today on our Evo X GSR. The drop in filter alone leans out the fuel curve an average of 0.5 AFR points across the board during a WOT pull. That's a pretty significant change to the point where we may need to create a map to bring the AFRs back where we want them.
When I get back from Holiday on Monday, I will talk with the tuners. For now I still have to say the filter may be unsafe to run with our mapping.
FYI, the power curves were almost identical between stock and the HKS filter. There was a small gain above 6500 RPM.
Happy Holidays!
Rob
ARC induction box or Cobb Access Port..
..i guess me ARC box gets to sit in storage for a (little?) bit,
since the AP just came in..
John.
Last edited by nhoj; Dec 23, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
Sad to hear about the HKS.
Hey Y'all,
We tested the HKS drop-in filter today on our Evo X GSR. The drop in filter alone leans out the fuel curve an average of 0.5 AFR points across the board during a WOT pull. That's a pretty significant change to the point where we may need to create a map to bring the AFRs back where we want them.
We tested the HKS drop-in filter today on our Evo X GSR. The drop in filter alone leans out the fuel curve an average of 0.5 AFR points across the board during a WOT pull. That's a pretty significant change to the point where we may need to create a map to bring the AFRs back where we want them.
Here is one of them:
I've done real back to back tests with the HKS drop in filter and every time it has leaned the car out .3-.4
The last HKS drop in made 20whp/15wtq just by dropping it in on a stock 10.
I also did a test where I tuned the 10 with the stock air filter, dialed in the AFR and then I put in the HKS drop-in filter and the car leaned out .3 but only gained 6whp. Big difference in power from un-tuned to tune.
Either way the filter leans the car out from taking out the restriction of the stock paper filter.
YMMV
I'll try to remember to find the charts this week.
The last HKS drop in made 20whp/15wtq just by dropping it in on a stock 10.
I also did a test where I tuned the 10 with the stock air filter, dialed in the AFR and then I put in the HKS drop-in filter and the car leaned out .3 but only gained 6whp. Big difference in power from un-tuned to tune.
Either way the filter leans the car out from taking out the restriction of the stock paper filter.
YMMV
I'll try to remember to find the charts this week.
Last edited by razorlab; Dec 24, 2008 at 01:19 AM.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2008
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From: Oklahoma City
^^No intake will be safe with a shelf map unless it has been created for it. The stock intake will make the same as all the intakes with the stock turbo or it will be very close. The only thing I would change would be the suction pipe if you are staying with the stock turbo.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
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Posts: 260
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From: SLC, UT
not sure if i would call this a problem or a revelation, COBB doesnt recommend running any intakes/hf filters with shelf stage1 maps for this reason,
we all know that allowing more air in by putting a hff or an intake, will naturally cause the afr to lean out.
so you have 2 options
1. put it in and hope that you are ok
2. put it in and log your afrs and knock (easier said than done currently on X) so i guess for now it would have to be bring car to a tuner and have them tweak a map for you
we all know that allowing more air in by putting a hff or an intake, will naturally cause the afr to lean out.
so you have 2 options
1. put it in and hope that you are ok
2. put it in and log your afrs and knock (easier said than done currently on X) so i guess for now it would have to be bring car to a tuner and have them tweak a map for you
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 510
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From: Oklahoma City
^^I think most the tuners recommend using the stock intake unless you do a custom tune or use an intake they have tuned for multiple times for mail ins. I know AMS only does mailins for their intake, and Perrin will only send maps for the stock box as well.
From what I read in the past, a drop-in filter would lean out the A/F quite a bit on stock tune only, reason being too rich from the factory. On tuned vehicles, the gains and A/F difference is very minimal.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Home
From what I read in the past, a drop-in filter would lean out the A/F quite a bit on stock tune only, reason being too rich from the factory. On tuned vehicles, the gains and A/F difference is very minimal.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.
what do you think about this statement based on your testing?
Thanks
Furthermore, the below quoted was taken from another thread. The stage 1 map was used for a car with AEM intake box, Forge MBC & WGA & exhaust and gained decent power in safe manner. As Dynoflash also pointed out, this map isn't really for a car with stock intake only. In this case it also worked on slightly modded cars, since the map is still rich and has room for it. Additional power could be made with further tweaking.
Today I had the pleasure to dyno tune my first Evo X with the new Access Port pro tuner for Evo X. I have had the Mitsubishi pro tuner for over a year but not much action with it until now!
the subject car is a 2008 Evo X
AEM enclosed box intake
Forge UNOS MBC and WGA
Buschur Cat Back / Quiet muffler
Bost peak 25 psi
93 octane
With the car 100% stock tune and the above parts it made 328 whp and 301 TQ
I flashed in the off the shelf Cobb Stage I map (not really for the car with an intake) and picked up some great power 350 whp 331 TQ - that was 22 whp gained and 30 TQ gained. The Cobb base map is very good. Their tuning is well evolved to match the more strudy engine of the Evo X. As always great.
Next I proceeded to fine tune or pro tune the car and tweak the timing and fuel maps
Results were 356 whp and 345 TQ with the Dyno Flash custom map
Here is the dyno sheet
The Cobb AP worked really well - no bugs - no problems - no bricked ecus - it was all smiles on the Dyno Flash Dyno !
Al
the subject car is a 2008 Evo X
AEM enclosed box intake
Forge UNOS MBC and WGA
Buschur Cat Back / Quiet muffler
Bost peak 25 psi
93 octane
With the car 100% stock tune and the above parts it made 328 whp and 301 TQ
I flashed in the off the shelf Cobb Stage I map (not really for the car with an intake) and picked up some great power 350 whp 331 TQ - that was 22 whp gained and 30 TQ gained. The Cobb base map is very good. Their tuning is well evolved to match the more strudy engine of the Evo X. As always great.
Next I proceeded to fine tune or pro tune the car and tweak the timing and fuel maps
Results were 356 whp and 345 TQ with the Dyno Flash custom map
Here is the dyno sheet
The Cobb AP worked really well - no bugs - no problems - no bricked ecus - it was all smiles on the Dyno Flash Dyno !
Al
From what I read in the past, a drop-in filter would lean out the A/F quite a bit on stock tune only, reason being too rich from the factory. On tuned vehicles, the gains and A/F difference is very minimal.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.
The stage 1 map is tuned to high 10-low 11, I suppose there is room for a filter upgrade without any problems.