EVOX sleeved block
Really?? not what i hear from guys running 9 second cars on a b series while i was at nopi this season.. No way anyone can convince me that for a drag race platform, open deck aluminum is superior to solid deck cast iron sorry..
Btw i am not saying at 500 or 600hp they might not be superior to cast.. Who knows we might see 9 sec stock block evo X.. Push 1000-1400hp thru one and then come see me.. No B or K series has made 4g63 type power and lived to make it down the track like Rao and Shep..
Btw i am not saying at 500 or 600hp they might not be superior to cast.. Who knows we might see 9 sec stock block evo X.. Push 1000-1400hp thru one and then come see me.. No B or K series has made 4g63 type power and lived to make it down the track like Rao and Shep..
I gotta say, I'm with Mike on this one. I've played the sleeving game for some years with Hondas too. It's just if it wasn't one thing it was another. Dropped sleeves, improper machining, leaking sleeves, wasn't glued in properly, and the list goes on here.
One issue was always that you had someone who wanted the engine sleeved after they blew the motor. After that the block could have a thousand things wrong with it, and not all machine shops mangnaflux the blocks to check for cracks ect after the shelling of the motor.
I think the way to approach this is not 4G63 against 4B11, but 4B11 against a quality machine shop...
One issue was always that you had someone who wanted the engine sleeved after they blew the motor. After that the block could have a thousand things wrong with it, and not all machine shops mangnaflux the blocks to check for cracks ect after the shelling of the motor.
I think the way to approach this is not 4G63 against 4B11, but 4B11 against a quality machine shop...
I gotta say, I'm with Mike on this one. I've played the sleeving game for some years with Hondas too. It's just if it wasn't one thing it was another. Dropped sleeves, improper machining, leaking sleeves, wasn't glued in properly, and the list goes on here.
One issue was always that you had someone who wanted the engine sleeved after they blew the motor. After that the block could have a thousand things wrong with it, and not all machine shops mangnaflux the blocks to check for cracks ect after the shelling of the motor.
I think the way to approach this is not 4G63 against 4B11, but 4B11 against a quality machine shop...
One issue was always that you had someone who wanted the engine sleeved after they blew the motor. After that the block could have a thousand things wrong with it, and not all machine shops mangnaflux the blocks to check for cracks ect after the shelling of the motor.
I think the way to approach this is not 4G63 against 4B11, but 4B11 against a quality machine shop...
Completely different design , engineering and different strength parts etc. Just because they are aluminum? With that logic no tires should be better then others since all of them is made from rubber, dont they?The 4B11T its designed and build for boost out from factory. And that is a huge difference.
Hondas never been designed for boost , just remember that. I don't even understand what the civic engine have to do with e Evo engine? Completely different design , engineering and different strength parts etc. Just because they are aluminum? With that logic no tires should be better then others since all of them is made from rubber, dont they?
The 4B11T its designed and build for boost out from factory. And that is a huge difference.
Completely different design , engineering and different strength parts etc. Just because they are aluminum? With that logic no tires should be better then others since all of them is made from rubber, dont they?The 4B11T its designed and build for boost out from factory. And that is a huge difference.
If the motor was designed well enough for the factory we wouldnt need the sleeves in the first place. Also since the 4B11 was a "world motor" it had to be used on multiple platforms not just the X. ...but I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. As per my 1st post it should be the 4B11 against the machine shops.
I can appreciate what your thoughts here, but the B and K series are both open deck blocks, which is the commonality between the two motors. Even if you have posts, in the water jackets,(around the sleeves) to stabilize, you'll still get flex in the sleeves, which is what causes a lot of issues prior to sleeving the motors.
If the motor was designed well enough for the factory we wouldnt need the sleeves in the first place. Also since the 4B11 was a "world motor" it had to be used on multiple platforms not just the X. ...but I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. As per my 1st post it should be the 4B11 against the machine shops.
If the motor was designed well enough for the factory we wouldnt need the sleeves in the first place. Also since the 4B11 was a "world motor" it had to be used on multiple platforms not just the X. ...but I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. As per my 1st post it should be the 4B11 against the machine shops.
I can appreciate what your thoughts here, but the B and K series are both open deck blocks, which is the commonality between the two motors. Even if you have posts, in the water jackets,(around the sleeves) to stabilize, you'll still get flex in the sleeves, which is what causes a lot of issues prior to sleeving the motors.
If the motor was designed well enough for the factory we wouldnt need the sleeves in the first place. Also since the 4B11 was a "world motor" it had to be used on multiple platforms not just the X. ...but I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. As per my 1st post it should be the 4B11 against the machine shops.
If the motor was designed well enough for the factory we wouldnt need the sleeves in the first place. Also since the 4B11 was a "world motor" it had to be used on multiple platforms not just the X. ...but I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. As per my 1st post it should be the 4B11 against the machine shops.
But here is the difference in our point we made.
As you sad the B and K open deck blocks...
the 4B11T is a semi closed block. and there is a huge difference.
Open deck blocks will work for all NA or low to medium boost applications.
Semi closed deck blocks are better suited for boost applications that are not extremely high or prolonged.
let me show you why:
Honda open deck:
and the 4B11t
so even if you just look at them, you see there is not real good thing to compere the Honda to the Mitsubishi as i stated before.
If you thought it was expensive for a built motor before, be prepared to pay 5k now for a built sleeved 4b11..
2jzgt3 > All Import Motors and 99% of domestic motors.. SOLID BLOCK.. I rest my case..
2jzgt3 > All Import Motors and 99% of domestic motors.. SOLID BLOCK.. I rest my case..
Thanks for the wonderful pics.. That makes complete sense now why Honda's always talk about sleeving their blocks. Under boost I can see why a open deck would not hold up as well. This also demonstrated why 2jz's can hold so much HP with no internals mods. I have to agree with the previous questions though.... Why sleeve the 4B11t? 
i dont know. i wouldn't since i'm not planning running on extreme boost. The 500 whp my goal is, so i dont think it will be necessary at that level.
Maybe for a 800whp and above or for some crazy boost... for drag racers. I dont know. I dont think so many people will run over 38 psi or 40 and above. But i can be wrong .
Maybe for a 800whp and above or for some crazy boost... for drag racers.
I dont know. I dont think so many people will run over 38 psi or 40 and above. But i can be wrong .
Last edited by Robevo RS; Sep 10, 2008 at 12:37 PM.
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I think it's funny that people assume that the sleeves and block are weak just because it's not closed deck. To give a perfect example, GM's racing division tested the ecotec block and found that the stock sleeves held up to 700 hp without distorting or warping or having any failures of any kind. The main weak point of any aluminum block, assuming that everything else is well built from the factory, is the fact that under big boost the block has more trouble keeping the head down, and since aluminum is more prone to warping IF the block separates from the head then headstuds and a good headgasket are more important.
However, iron blocks aren't immune to this either, as 4g63 blocks have warped under the same conditions at power levels that weren't really that high. Besides, all the 4g63 guys that keep talking about this 1000 hp crap need to realize that although the block is very strong, 4g63s still have to be built to the moon and back to be able to handle that kind of power. EVERYTHING has be upgraded, and even then how long do you think the motor lasts? After a very short period of time it needs to be rebuilt because every single part of that engine is worn down and fatigued.
Reliability goes out the window at this point so who gives a crap if it can do it for a month or two before breaking? So what if the 4b11 would have to have a few more modifications to handle the same power? For more moderate power levels up to around 5-600 hp aluminum is perfectly strong and that's more power than any track car would ever need. Road racing is what the EVO was designed for anyway, not drag racing.
Oh and Mike, I never told you to act like aluminum is perfect and hide your "feelings," I simply made the point that you need to be careful of what you say that could turn off potential clients that might otherwise do business with you. I have a degree in business and marketing, and I can tell you that it's just not good business sense to badmouth anything that potential customers might currently own. For example, someone walks into a BMW dealership interested in buying a car, and the guy asks the salesman, "so, how does BMW compare to Lexus?" The salesman responds, "Lexus' are pieces of crap." The customer then says, "I have a Lexus," and then leaves because he feels insulted and never comes back.
As a business owner you might not want to limit your taget audience. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I'm just saying try to take your personal opinions out of this thread if they are negative and let's try to stay on topic.
However, iron blocks aren't immune to this either, as 4g63 blocks have warped under the same conditions at power levels that weren't really that high. Besides, all the 4g63 guys that keep talking about this 1000 hp crap need to realize that although the block is very strong, 4g63s still have to be built to the moon and back to be able to handle that kind of power. EVERYTHING has be upgraded, and even then how long do you think the motor lasts? After a very short period of time it needs to be rebuilt because every single part of that engine is worn down and fatigued.
Reliability goes out the window at this point so who gives a crap if it can do it for a month or two before breaking? So what if the 4b11 would have to have a few more modifications to handle the same power? For more moderate power levels up to around 5-600 hp aluminum is perfectly strong and that's more power than any track car would ever need. Road racing is what the EVO was designed for anyway, not drag racing.
Oh and Mike, I never told you to act like aluminum is perfect and hide your "feelings," I simply made the point that you need to be careful of what you say that could turn off potential clients that might otherwise do business with you. I have a degree in business and marketing, and I can tell you that it's just not good business sense to badmouth anything that potential customers might currently own. For example, someone walks into a BMW dealership interested in buying a car, and the guy asks the salesman, "so, how does BMW compare to Lexus?" The salesman responds, "Lexus' are pieces of crap." The customer then says, "I have a Lexus," and then leaves because he feels insulted and never comes back.
As a business owner you might not want to limit your taget audience. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I'm just saying try to take your personal opinions out of this thread if they are negative and let's try to stay on topic.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Sep 10, 2008 at 12:48 PM.
I think it's funny that people assume that the sleeves and block are weak just because it's not closed deck. To give a perfect example, GM's racing division tested the ecotec block and found that the stock sleeves held up to 700 hp without distorting or warping or having any failures of any kind. The main weak point of any aluminum block, assuming that everything else is well built from the factory, is the fact that under big boost the block has more trouble keeping the head down, and since aluminum is more prone to warping IF the block separates from the head then headstuds and a good headgasket are more important.
However, iron blocks aren't immune to this either, as 4g63 blocks have warped under the same conditions at power levels that weren't really that high. Besides, all the 4g63 guys that keep talking about this 1000 hp crap need to realize that although the block is very strong, 4g63s still have to be built to the moon and back to be able to handle that kind of power. EVERYTHING has be upgraded, and even then how long do you think the motor lasts? After a very short period of time it needs to be rebuilt because every single part of that engine is worn down and fatigued.
Reliability goes out the window at this point so who gives a crap if it can do it for a month or two before breaking? So what if the 4b11 would have to have a few more modifications to handle the same power? For more moderate power levels up to around 5-600 hp aluminum is perfectly strong and that's more power than any track car would ever need. Road racing is what the EVO was designed for anyway, not drag racing.
Oh and Mike, I never told you to act like aluminum is perfect and hide your "feelings," I simply made the point that you need to be careful of what you say that could turn off potential clients that might otherwise do business with you. I have a degree in business and marketing, and I can tell you that it's just not good business sense to badmouth anything that potential customers might currently own. For example, someone walks into a BMW dealership interested in buying a car, and the guy asks the salesman, "so, how does BMW compare to Lexus?" The salesman responds, "Lexus' are pieces of crap." The customer then says, "I have a Lexus," and then leaves because he feels insulted and never comes back.
As a business owner you might not want to limit your taget audience. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I'm just saying try to take your personal opinions out of this thread if they are negative and let's try to stay on topic.
However, iron blocks aren't immune to this either, as 4g63 blocks have warped under the same conditions at power levels that weren't really that high. Besides, all the 4g63 guys that keep talking about this 1000 hp crap need to realize that although the block is very strong, 4g63s still have to be built to the moon and back to be able to handle that kind of power. EVERYTHING has be upgraded, and even then how long do you think the motor lasts? After a very short period of time it needs to be rebuilt because every single part of that engine is worn down and fatigued.
Reliability goes out the window at this point so who gives a crap if it can do it for a month or two before breaking? So what if the 4b11 would have to have a few more modifications to handle the same power? For more moderate power levels up to around 5-600 hp aluminum is perfectly strong and that's more power than any track car would ever need. Road racing is what the EVO was designed for anyway, not drag racing.
Oh and Mike, I never told you to act like aluminum is perfect and hide your "feelings," I simply made the point that you need to be careful of what you say that could turn off potential clients that might otherwise do business with you. I have a degree in business and marketing, and I can tell you that it's just not good business sense to badmouth anything that potential customers might currently own. For example, someone walks into a BMW dealership interested in buying a car, and the guy asks the salesman, "so, how does BMW compare to Lexus?" The salesman responds, "Lexus' are pieces of crap." The customer then says, "I have a Lexus," and then leaves because he feels insulted and never comes back.
As a business owner you might not want to limit your taget audience. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, I'm just saying try to take your personal opinions out of this thread if they are negative and let's try to stay on topic.
