Not really, very informative. And that might be the reason. So i guess getting the EU guys and Japan guys to do samples might give us a clue if this could be the problem.

 

direct injection means that it operates with higher pressure compared to your regular manifold injectors. can it be higher boost pressure on a cold engine causing this problem? the audi and the 4b11?

 

As a I read it, stratified fuel injection shapes the injector pulse such that immediately around the plug the fuel density is high but further away quite lean (65:1) toward the edges of the cyclinder. By so doing the overall A/F is relatively lean but with low risk of knock. This is what the European FSI engines employ but do not in US which speculatively leads to over fueling and potentially fuel dilution. What is important to point here is fuel dilution is not limited to direct injection engines as we are all well aware. Audi's FSI engine may have fuel dilution from its fuel management system or lack there of in the US BUT also from other features, such as engine design.

Later, Ken

 

Yes, I agree Moly may be attaching itself to metal internal parts, and some may be going out the exhaust. We know that the escape route through the exhaust is possible because of the long standing concern with the anti-wear additive ZDDP. It is known that the phosphorous component of ZDDP gets into the exhaust, and into the converter, where it can inactivate the catalysts.

The engine wear may indeed be acceptable. There will be no catastrophic engine failures at these fuel levels, especially if you change your oil every 1000-1500 miles. Can you imagine what the fuel dilution was in the 1970s, in a carbureted V8? Probably 5-10%. And yet those engines lasted a very long time.

But engine wear will not be optimum. And service life of the oil will be reduced. The other factor to consider, other than engine wear, is formation of internal deposits and sludge from excess fuel in the oil.

 

Clean

 

Here is another UOA, in which sequential samples were taken:


This is a new Bentley GTC UOA at 1, 2 and 3,000 miles taken from the OEM oil. The first factory scheduled oil change is at 10,000 miles. My plan is to run a UOA every 1,000 miles for as long as I can stand not changing the oil or to 6,000 miles, whichever occurs first. No oil was added.

The engine is a 6.0 liter twin turbo W-12 with 550 BHP, compression ratio 9:1, top speed - 198 MPH and 0 - 60 dash = 4.8 seconds. The curb wt. is 5,500 lbs., EPA 11, 24 MPG,

......................1,000 mi.....2,000.....3,000.....4,000.....5,000.....6,0 00
.................................................. .................................................. ..
Iron__________22________23____33
Chromium _____<1_______<1____<1
Nickel _________1________2_____2
Aluminum _____5 ________7_____6
lead __________ 1________1_____3
Copper ________32_______34____41
Tin ____________5_______3______3
Silver ________<0.1______0.1____0.1
Titanium _______<1______<1____<1
Silicon ________ 37_______34____39
Boron _________228______195____219
Sodium _______ 15_______12_____13
Potassium _____<10______<10____<10
Molybdenum ____91______81______92
Phosphorus ___1027______936____1035
Zinc ________ 1151______1027___1182
Calcium _____ 3228______2915___3301
Barium _______<10_______<10____<10
Magnesium ____22________21_____29
Antimony _____<30______<30____<30
Vanadium _____<1_______<1_____<1
Fuel %Vol _____1.5______<1.0____<1.0
Wtr %vol ______<0.1_____<0.1____<0.1
Vis CS 100C __ 12.3______12.1____12.1
SAE Grade ____30________30_____30
Gly test ______Neg_______Neg____Neg
TBN ________not done____NA_____NA
Obs Oxid______23_______27______29
Abs Nitr_______10______13_______14
Fuel soot______NA______NA______0.0

Test lab was: youroil.net

aehaas

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...136663&fpart=1

 

Well Sub has shown above that an alluminum alloy (Alusil) block and head and associated pistons under forced induction has fuel dilution <<4%. So it is possible to have these metal constituents and not get excessive fuel dilution. While not discounting the influence of aluminum constituents, engine design in combination with aluminum is another possibility for the degree of fuel dilution seen in the 4B11 engine.

Now I do not know what the specific aluminum alloy is for the 4B11 but in looking for same I found a technical article from Mitsu (http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...008/20e_05.pdf) :
"Also, the friction-caused loss of energy was reduced by the use of full-floating piston pins and through holes made in the bulkhead of the cylinder block to lower pressure in the crankcase." I know next to nothing about engine building specifications so what does "through-holes" and "full-floating piston rings" mean? But more importantly to our topic, will these design features enhanse blow by during warm up more than other designs? In addiition, it implies that these features are new to the 4B11 i.e., they were not employed in the 4G63 engine which, I believe, has a much lower fuel dilution. Hopefully some engine builders will respond here?

Later, Ken

 

and thats exacly why these oils specifically say off road use and they are not API ISLAC certified,,,,, ect.....

they will clog the cat after a while,,,,,,,, but for the ones that dont use cat's it doesnt matter,,,, i understand most people on this thred have EvoX and want to maintain warranty and a stock like car.



why dont you guys try this oil,,, it was designed to have super detergents to maintain a clean engine, what i noticed from going to Mobil to AMSOIl ATM was the Mobil usto get dark after 1200-1500k with the AMSOIL ATM the oil stays clear meaning that carbon deposites are not sticking to the oil and they are going where they belong filter.




Excels in Extreme Temperatures
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-30 Motor Oil resists thermal (heat) breakdown better than conventional oils. It is heavily fortified with detergent and dispersant additives to prevent sludge deposits and keep engines clean. And unlike conventional oils, AMSOIL ATM contains no wax. It stays fluid down to -58°F for improved cold temperature oil flow, reduced bearing wear and easier starting (see chart).

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx

 

hey guys sorry if i missed it in the last 26 pages, but is there some sort of petition going around?
I dont think it would be a bad idea to get something going that will really bring attention to the matter. I mean they came out with the factory flashes, but they really need to step it up and do something that works and stop beating around the bush.

 

FWIW:
1. I called MMA a couple weeks back to complain. The woman who took my call acted very concerned and gave me a case#. She said this was the first time hearing anything about this. I let her know of the many complaints on evom.net. Kind of weird that someone who handles customer complaints was oblivious. I'll be following up with an oil analysis with them and you guys after another 2k miles.

2. I emailed AMS about this and was told some causes could be the car breaking in, excessive idling, super rich a/fr and the cold weather. I have all these situations more or less as 80% of my driving is slow stop and go to work below 40 mph and I have been letting the car warm up for 5 or so minutes in the morning. Only 2k miles on car and 1k on new oil and all stock.

3. After reading some of the test results provided be SubLGT on the Ferrari, I tried the long drive test. Granted I only used the unofficial sniffer method, but after a 1 hr highway drive I noticed a definite decrease of fuel smell. Barely there. Oil still looks nice and clear.

In this age of consumer lawsuits, it's really baffling that vehicles could be sold with this prevalent condition. Not just Mitsu but the German cars too. I hate to be so cynical to think that they just released the cars knowing there may be engine failure after the warranty expires. Was there that little QC or real world testing? Does it really lead to catastrophic engine conditions?

Evo 8 and 9 owners were complaining about this several years ago on evom.net. Granted they have an iron block, but how have those engines held up?

-Chuck

 

That I have to see! Can you post a link? I know they updated the piston oil ring of the evo 9. The 4b11, even if it is all aluminum, they still have iron sleeves.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-your-oil.html


^This thread. There are a couple more about this as well I found by searching.

 

I meant where they actually did an oil analysis, like this thread is all about >4%.

 

we didn't had "STI2EvoX" back then .... If you know what i mean

But i have to agree, all the evos i had , the oil got dirty in no time. Now i do not smell gas in my x, just as i didn't my other evos.
Maybe it is my nose. But the black oil is for me exists in the Evo's since i own them.

 

going back to black oil, that is what I noticed from my evo from day 1 compared to my other cars. after 3K miles, it even got worse. after I changed to mobil 1 extended performance 10W/30(for 8&9), it wasn't as black even after 4K miles. maybe change to the extended performance variety for better engine protection?