Like doc said, I did call, but the info that I was given was rough numbers that weren't finalized because they run them through a second stage for more accuracy so just wait. I received my results via email today, and once your results are done, you will too. Post your results as soon as you get them.

 

Ok, so we it appears that we definitely have fuel getting into the engine oil and it is worse than we anticipated as per STI2EVO. We have another member who has had a tune so it will be informative to have his results to see the degree to which it is lower than those w/o out a tune or is it just in the "noise"; I also agree that the recorded A/F 's could not be accounting for this degree of oil input-something else has to be going on here. Now to cause: the only bonified source that has been reported earlier was a defective injector. I think whom ever returns to the dealerships needs to ask to have their injectors checked. Is there a specific series of tests (static and dynamic) that can be performed to establsih whether they are operating correctly as well as the seal between the injectors and the head/block. I had hoped that the individual that had the faulty injector would have described exactly what the dealership found. For, if known, this could be checked on STI2EVO's car when he returns to dealership with his results.

Hey Papi? Still sceptical?

Later, Ken

 

^I am also curious as to how injectors are tested to see if they are leaking. If I know this, I can tell the dealer exactly what I want done. Since dealers are so clueless half the time, it's as if we have to be the techs.

 

+1

 

Yes Ken.

But i will be doing a oil analisys too, it will be a month or so for my results but i will report back here.

Later, Raul
They have to be pulled of the vehicle and be sent off to a facility that has a bench flow test machine, pretty much.

 

^That's what I was affraid of. I wonder if the dealer would just replace my injectors on good faith. I mean, rich A/F ratios couldn't possibly cause this much fuel dilution on it's own, so there has to be something else going on here, and since I highly doubt that my rings are bad, leaky injectors would be the most likely cause. I guess I'll see what they say.

 

Ok, Sent a PM to gsr0801 who originally posted that he had an injector problem and it was presumably at his dealership (would be nice to see if his oil is running <2% post injector fix). Since his post (pg 5 or so), we have heard nothing from him. I have asked if he would explain/provide exactly what the dealership mechanic found with his injector(s) so that we could check same.
I shall call my dealership today to found out if any of the mechanics can suggest some cursory things that can be checked, e.g., o-ring seals between injectors and head. We need to get to the bottom of this.

Later, Ken

 

Faulty injectors are a pain. I know an old friend had a 4.6(mustang) supercharged. Well he thought he blew the engine at some point. Took the car back to the same shop and paid for the engine to be taken apart and rebuild.

What really happen was a faulty injector was stuck open and flooded a cylinder. All that needed to be done is replace that injector. At least he got a fully built engine out of the whole thing. But and unnecessary cost at the power that he was putting down. It was so bad, that you could see fuel coming from his exhaust and could smell it.

The only thing i can think of, is the stupid drive by wire throttle is somewhat not working correctly and might be doing just that, not shutting off or incorrectly controlling the signal, and allowing the injectors to be running out of wack.

 

wouldn't that exhibit some rev hang or erratic if not higher idling?

 

Ok, just got off the phone with mechanic at Mitsu dealership after he thought about the issue and talking to Mitsu directly.
HIs thoughts: There was a service bulleton in Dec 08 and Feb 09 replacing the injector clips. I'm wondering whether they just replaced them for gsr0801and said the problem is solved. However, the mechanic here indicated that these clips could not have caused the problem. The only other place was the valve seals which could be a source but would be difficult to confirm. A cracked valve guide could also cause fuel intrusion but you would be seeing smoke in exhaust and probably trip some codes; so he felt unlikely this is a possibility.
Mitsu Engineers: He talked with someone at Mitsu and they indicated they would forward this issue to their engineering department. When he hears their response, I will pass it on.

Later, Ken

 

Valve seals only keep excessive oil from getting into the cylinders through the valve guides so I can't see that. I can't see how a cracked or worn valve guide could cause it either. No fuel flows through, past or over the guides. They are a bushing which allows the valve to maintain it's correct alignment and lubrication.

Maybe I am being over simple, but I can't see how either of those would cause excess fuel, or unburned fuel without other problems being noticed such as oil consumption, oil fouled plugs, etc...

I am still leaning to a fuel problem... These engines run extremely rich to begin with and a poor injector could add to the situation...

Doc

 

I don't see how a valve seal could cause the issue. Think about it; there are 4 valves per cylinder (2 intake and 2 exhaust), and all they do is let air in, and let exhaust out of the engine. If the exhaust valves were leaking, it would just go out the exhaust and never get near the oil. If the intake valves were leaking, then it's possible that during the compression stroke, some of the compressed air/fuel mixture would go back up into the intake side of the head and into the intake manifold. But, there's no way for this to get into the oil supply but back in. It still would get sucked back into the combustion chamber on the next intake stroke. No matter what, it would still have to get past the rings to get back into the oil supply.

Now, since fuel is always going to get past the rings easier than oil, a certain amount of blow by is always going to occur and unless you are seeing oil consumption, then most likely the rings are fine. Granted, it is possible to have the compression rings go bad before the oil rings, which would show fuel dilution without oil consumption, but I doubt that's what's occuring here. So, if too much fuel is getting into the oil, and the rings aren't faulty, then there is just too much fuel in the combustion chamber. This is why I keep leaning towards leaking fuel injectors, because rich A/F ratios alone aren't enough to cause this much fuel dilution, and I can't think of anything else that would be a likely culprit.

Ken, please let us know as soon as you hear back from the dealer. I am calling this in today as well, so we can compare dealer opinions to see if anything new comes out.

 

What are the possibilities of the injector opening during the exhaust cycle and and the valve opening a bit later and the fuel getting by without compression a little bit at a time?

 

There would be no reason why the valves would be opening or closing later because that's determined by the cam profiles, which is completely unrelated to the issue here. Either way, the excess fuel would still have to get past the rings to get into the oil supply, and it doesn't matter whether the engine is in the intake, compression, power, or exhaust stroke because if the injector is leaking, fuel is constantly dripping into in the combustion chamber regardless of stroke. That combined with the already rich air/fuel ratios is where the problem is coming from I think.

We will know more soon after I have the dealer look at my car on thursday, but even then it will probably be a while until definite answers are given. What I am hoping for is to have my injectors replaced on good faith and then once the old ones are sent back for testing, then we will know if that was in fact the issue. From mitsu's perspective, this should be acceptable because not only is it the most likely cause of the issue, it's also far cheaper and easier than going into the block to check the rings, which is the only other likely cause of the issue. We will see I guess...

 

hey what happened to the oil doc?