I bought a IX because to me it is the last true Evolution
yep. those cars surely represent the entire global auto market. nice post! 
stop looking at top gear on youtube and enter reality. mitsu corp sells cars, not fanboi-mobiles. the hardcore evos of yore don't sell. time to change it so that it will sell. they'll still keep that name for recognition/heritage.
seriously. would all the haters be content with the car if it wasn't called evo? ok so if mitsu retired the evo name and they called it the lancer GSX, or lancer ralliart, or something totally different, something other than "evolution"; would that satisfy you all?
fanbois are so out of touch with reality...
PS: anybody who compares the evo with the atom is either stupid or high as a kite...
stop looking at top gear on youtube and enter reality. mitsu corp sells cars, not fanboi-mobiles. the hardcore evos of yore don't sell. time to change it so that it will sell. they'll still keep that name for recognition/heritage.
seriously. would all the haters be content with the car if it wasn't called evo? ok so if mitsu retired the evo name and they called it the lancer GSX, or lancer ralliart, or something totally different, something other than "evolution"; would that satisfy you all?
fanbois are so out of touch with reality...
PS: anybody who compares the evo with the atom is either stupid or high as a kite...
In other words, the EvoX is not the thoroughbred bread we “fan-boys” have come to associate with the name "Evolution." It’s a more luxurious car, undeserving, to some, of the evo name.
Interesting that you want to take "evolution" literally. In biological evolution, there is something known as "fitness cost" which is a trade-off the organism makes in acquiring a mutation or genetic determinant that allows it to survive better in an altered environment (niche). A simple example is a bacterium that acquires a drug resistance mutation that also causes it to grow slower than "normal" bacteria (known as "wild type"). In the presence of the antibiotic, the mutant thrives (since wild type bacteria die quickly), but once the status quo is re-established (no more antibiotic), the mutant's weaknesses will show and it simply cannot compete with the wild type.
Long rambling analogy, I know, but the point is this : the "altered environment" is one with increasingly stringent safety and emissions standards, and more rich older-young people who want luxury and are willing to take a trade-off in the form of slightly diminished performance. These older yuppies are also not so much into the modding/tuning scene.
Given that changing environment, the Evolution X has evolved into a safer car with better emissions. The trade-off or "fitness cost" is that it is heavier, more expensive, and may well be slower and less tunable than the old "wild type" car.
*That's* what people are worried about - not the fact that the car is "evolving", but the fitness cost of the evolution which can compromise performance. This IS a performance car, after all.
Long rambling analogy, I know, but the point is this : the "altered environment" is one with increasingly stringent safety and emissions standards, and more rich older-young people who want luxury and are willing to take a trade-off in the form of slightly diminished performance. These older yuppies are also not so much into the modding/tuning scene.
Given that changing environment, the Evolution X has evolved into a safer car with better emissions. The trade-off or "fitness cost" is that it is heavier, more expensive, and may well be slower and less tunable than the old "wild type" car.
*That's* what people are worried about - not the fact that the car is "evolving", but the fitness cost of the evolution which can compromise performance. This IS a performance car, after all.
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From: Singapore
Nice job contradicting yourself. The entire point of the thread is that the EvoX is not the "hardcore evo" that "doesn't sell"; instead it's a car whose prioritized helping "mitsu corp sell cars" above performance (or at least in a different manner), hence the OP’s anxiety around it's title.
In other words, the EvoX is not the thoroughbred bread we “fan-boys” have come to associate with the name "Evolution." It’s a more luxurious car, undeserving, to some, of the evo name.
In other words, the EvoX is not the thoroughbred bread we “fan-boys” have come to associate with the name "Evolution." It’s a more luxurious car, undeserving, to some, of the evo name.
There are people out there (I'm an example) who still have the option of choosing between a new IX and a new X. And the very fact that it's no longer a clear choice means that the X doesn't meet many expectations. Some people just have to learn to deal with that and not get all defensive and insulting.
Although I don’t necessary agree (b/c I’m not yet convinced the car is any lesser than it’s hardcore predecessors) I couldn’t say it better myself. Seriously awesome post.
IDK, the Evo X will probably be better in most ways, just not in the same way as we all know it. It won't be as raw but will get the job done with poise. It is grown up, kinda like Saved by the Bell, the College Years.
Different motor, bigger turbo, why wouldn't it be better? I am a 4G63 Fanboi for sure, and haveing an Evo IX I currently own the ULTIMATE espression of the 4G63, that alone I am happy.
Different motor, bigger turbo, why wouldn't it be better? I am a 4G63 Fanboi for sure, and haveing an Evo IX I currently own the ULTIMATE espression of the 4G63, that alone I am happy.
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From: tsukuba turn 4
it's these haters that don't understand or don't want to understand that the EVO X is not any different. for the sake of existence it HAS to "grow up" both literally and figuratively.
They don't sell?! *I* would buy one, and I know 90% of the enthusiasts in the local scene who would pick one up in a heartbeat. I'm pretty sure lots of people on this forum would too. Don't speak for others - if you're mellowing out and want luxury at the expense of performance, it doesn't mean everyone else shares the same view.
mitsu is a GLOBAL company. the evo is a GLOBAL car. if we're talking about dedicated track cars getting fat and luxurious then there'd be no discussion. but we're not. we're talking about a production car sold all over the world that has sporting roots. yes it was more spartan in the past, but things change. the market changes. what people want and EXPECT....CHANGES!!! not rocket science here folks...
comparing the atom (a niche car) to the evo (a global production car) is dumb, utterly useless, and proves nothing.
comparing the EVO X and cars such as the M3 is like comparing lexus/infiniti to BMW/M-B in the 90's. an "inferior" brand aiming for the clouds, the benchmark, the pinnacle. that's the direction the EVO shoots for...UP!
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From: tsukuba turn 4
Nice job contradicting yourself. The entire point of the thread is that the EvoX is not the "hardcore evo" that "doesn't sell"; instead it's a car whose prioritized helping "mitsu corp sell cars" above performance (or at least in a different manner), hence the OP’s anxiety around it's title.
the OP is an idiot because most would agree the last true EVO was the IV not the IX.
I think Mitsu is taking the exact same path as Audi in the late 80's / early 90's. The rally success of the Quattro put Audi on the map and they used the AWD technology as platform for all of their future cars.
So while Audi has definitely "evolved" as a brand with some stunning and fast cars, they will never produce something as raw and fun as the Quattro again. I think we'll look back on the VIII/IX in the same way. No doubt the X & beyond will be technically better, I have a hard time believing we'll see anything nearly as fun...maybe even not as fast (ie mod friendly).
So again it simply gets back to preferences. I prefer the raw hardcore edge over comfort and technical capability. Personally, I think the old Evo's will be looked upon just as fondly as the old Mopars, Camaros, and Stangs of the early 70's.
I fully believe this is a a modern day classic. Which is why I'm trying to buy a TB IX SE to park next to my WW IX MR.
So while Audi has definitely "evolved" as a brand with some stunning and fast cars, they will never produce something as raw and fun as the Quattro again. I think we'll look back on the VIII/IX in the same way. No doubt the X & beyond will be technically better, I have a hard time believing we'll see anything nearly as fun...maybe even not as fast (ie mod friendly).
So again it simply gets back to preferences. I prefer the raw hardcore edge over comfort and technical capability. Personally, I think the old Evo's will be looked upon just as fondly as the old Mopars, Camaros, and Stangs of the early 70's.
I fully believe this is a a modern day classic. Which is why I'm trying to buy a TB IX SE to park next to my WW IX MR.
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From: tsukuba turn 4
I think Mitsu is taking the exact same path as Audi in the late 80's / early 90's. The rally success of the Quattro put Audi on the map and they used the AWD technology as platform for all of their future cars.
So while Audi has definitely "evolved" as a brand with some stunning and fast cars, they will never produce something as raw and fun as the Quattro again. I think we'll look back on the VIII/IX in the same way. No doubt the X & beyond will be technically better, I have a hard time believing we'll see anything nearly as fun...maybe even not as fast (ie mod friendly).
So again it simply gets back to preferences. I prefer the raw hardcore edge over comfort and technical capability. Personally, I think the old Evo's will be looked upon just as fondly as the old Mopars, Camaros, and Stangs of the early 70's.
I fully believe this is a a modern day classic. Which is why I'm trying to buy a TB IX SE to park next to my WW IX MR.
So while Audi has definitely "evolved" as a brand with some stunning and fast cars, they will never produce something as raw and fun as the Quattro again. I think we'll look back on the VIII/IX in the same way. No doubt the X & beyond will be technically better, I have a hard time believing we'll see anything nearly as fun...maybe even not as fast (ie mod friendly).
So again it simply gets back to preferences. I prefer the raw hardcore edge over comfort and technical capability. Personally, I think the old Evo's will be looked upon just as fondly as the old Mopars, Camaros, and Stangs of the early 70's.
I fully believe this is a a modern day classic. Which is why I'm trying to buy a TB IX SE to park next to my WW IX MR.
ok so what i ask is why does any of this surprise people?
why are people surprised that the evo is larger, heavier and has more amenities as if other cars and car companies haven't done this before?
boggles the mind, the amount of stupidity or oversight that exists concerning the X...
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From: Cybertron
IMO,
Criticising a car that no one has driven seems a little premature.
Looks are subjective but performance should be open to judgment upon exp.
And when it comes to that, it still becomes one who is each to his own.
To me, that is when one has the right to come to full circle on their opinions.
For the anti X group, it is a challenge because of their bond with their car.
For the pro X group, it's out of simple curiosity.
JUST CAUSE neither group has driven the X.
Criticising a car that no one has driven seems a little premature.
Looks are subjective but performance should be open to judgment upon exp.
And when it comes to that, it still becomes one who is each to his own.
To me, that is when one has the right to come to full circle on their opinions.
For the anti X group, it is a challenge because of their bond with their car.
For the pro X group, it's out of simple curiosity.
JUST CAUSE neither group has driven the X.
I bought an VIII because it was in 2004 and it's about paid for. Hell of a lot faster than any X of the floor too.
But I'm waiting for the Evo 11, since the 9 was so much better than the 8, the (perhaps) ethanol powered Evo XI in 2010 might be nice. Unless we elect an algorish dictator into office having us drive around in 87octane burning, 90 whp turdmobiles
But I'm waiting for the Evo 11, since the 9 was so much better than the 8, the (perhaps) ethanol powered Evo XI in 2010 might be nice. Unless we elect an algorish dictator into office having us drive around in 87octane burning, 90 whp turdmobiles
I bought an VIII because it was in 2004 and it's about paid for. Hell of a lot faster than any X of the floor too.
But I'm waiting for the Evo 11, since the 9 was so much better than the 8, the (perhaps) ethanol powered Evo XI in 2010 might be nice. Unless we elect an algorish dictator into office having us drive around in 87octane burning, 90 whp turdmobiles
But I'm waiting for the Evo 11, since the 9 was so much better than the 8, the (perhaps) ethanol powered Evo XI in 2010 might be nice. Unless we elect an algorish dictator into office having us drive around in 87octane burning, 90 whp turdmobiles
cough cough Ams & Buschur cough cough
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From: Singapore
no it's not. you're nitpicking semantics. when i say "all cars" i don't literally mean every single automobile on earth. nitpick all you want. the fact is that cars made today are heavier, larger, safer, and have more amenities stock or as an option than cars made just a decade ago. the further you go back, the more apparent this "trend", if you want to call it that, becomes.
it's these haters that don't understand or don't want to understand that the EVO X is not any different. for the sake of existence it HAS to "grow up" both literally and figuratively.
again, YOU and your friends DON'T represent the entire global market. do you honestly think that you do? you honestly think that what YOU like, is the same as what some middle aged father in a small fishing village in japan likes? seriously, where do people get educated nowadays?
mitsu is a GLOBAL company. the evo is a GLOBAL car. if we're talking about dedicated track cars getting fat and luxurious then there'd be no discussion. but we're not. we're talking about a production car sold all over the world that has sporting roots. yes it was more spartan in the past, but things change. the market changes. what people want and EXPECT....CHANGES!!! not rocket science here folks...
no. mitsu would WANT to be in the same breadth as great companies such as BMW, M-B, Porsche, etc. but they know their limits. no one's gonna buy a $100k sports car from mitsu. if they could do you think they wouldn't? you telling me their product planners worldwide don't know this, but YOU do?
comparing the atom (a niche car) to the evo (a global production car) is dumb, utterly useless, and proves nothing. comparing the EVO X and cars such as the M3 is like comparing lexus/infiniti to BMW/M-B in the 90's. an "inferior" brand aiming for the clouds, the benchmark, the pinnacle. that's the direction the EVO shoots for...UP!
it's these haters that don't understand or don't want to understand that the EVO X is not any different. for the sake of existence it HAS to "grow up" both literally and figuratively.
again, YOU and your friends DON'T represent the entire global market. do you honestly think that you do? you honestly think that what YOU like, is the same as what some middle aged father in a small fishing village in japan likes? seriously, where do people get educated nowadays?
mitsu is a GLOBAL company. the evo is a GLOBAL car. if we're talking about dedicated track cars getting fat and luxurious then there'd be no discussion. but we're not. we're talking about a production car sold all over the world that has sporting roots. yes it was more spartan in the past, but things change. the market changes. what people want and EXPECT....CHANGES!!! not rocket science here folks...
no. mitsu would WANT to be in the same breadth as great companies such as BMW, M-B, Porsche, etc. but they know their limits. no one's gonna buy a $100k sports car from mitsu. if they could do you think they wouldn't? you telling me their product planners worldwide don't know this, but YOU do?
comparing the atom (a niche car) to the evo (a global production car) is dumb, utterly useless, and proves nothing.
comparing the EVO X and cars such as the M3 is like comparing lexus/infiniti to BMW/M-B in the 90's. an "inferior" brand aiming for the clouds, the benchmark, the pinnacle. that's the direction the EVO shoots for...UP!We've been lucky to have had the car on our shores for a while, and I HAVE seen the car personally. Twice, both good long inspections of every nook and cranny. I've already given my rather underwhelmed impressions in another thread, but I summarise for your benefit :
1) Cramped engine bay. Plasticky cheap looking engine cover. Cheap looking hoses. Overall, way less distinguished looking than that of the IX.
2) Interior is *more* plasticky and less refined looking than that of the IX (except for the Recaros, which are really nice). Most people locally who have directly compared the IX and the X say this.
3) No significant increase in luxury gadgets. No GPS system or reversing camera, for example.
4) Cheap plastic spoiler. No more CF. It's smaller, so some people might think that's "grown up" or whatever. But the spoiler has gone from being one that used to be big but functional (at speed) to one that is pure rice and completely useless. But "grown up looking" with the small size. Or whatever.
5) Boot (trunk) space is nonexistent. The battery is in the back (ok, some have pointed out that's better for weight distribution). But a supposedly "luxurious", "grown up" performance sedan needs a minimum amount of trunk space, and this just doesn't have enough.
6) Dual exhaust is completely unnecessary and pure rice. Or is that "grown up" too?
Please, tell me where the luxury is hiding. My first impression is that it looks like a tarted up Korean car (like the Tiburon Tuscani, for example). I have never felt that way about an older Evo model. Never.
We get the JDM trim here, and I am comparing a JDM X GSR to a JDM IX GSR. Not many here have driven the car yet, so we cannot judge the actual driving experience for ourselves. For what it's worth I know a chap who works in a dealership who has driven the X (5MT) and the IX back to back and says the IX "feels faster". Purely subjective, but at least it's a real opinion.
Oh, before I forget : the car is actually significantly cheaper than the outgoing IX was (when new). Forget about the actual prices - we pay a lot more than you do because of the ridiculous taxes here, but in purely relative terms the JDM X is cheaper here than the JDM IX was (and the prices reflect relative Japanese prices). This holds true even when comparing the new fangled SST version of the X to the old 6MT IX GSR. Do you think Mitsubishi would purposely underprice the car if they're trying to appeal to a richer market segment as has been claimed in this forum *many* times? Or are they just acknowledging that the car is actually more cheaply built overall?
I have no idea why the US price structure seems turned on its head. I can only surmise that either the VIII and IX versions that came to the USDM were so watered down that they were sold cheaply, or that your dealers are gouging you on the X.
Last edited by Turb0flat4; Nov 6, 2007 at 09:58 PM.
Evolved Member
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From: tsukuba turn 4
Look, give me a straight answer to a simple question : have you personally SEEN the car up close? If you had, you wouldn't be so cocksure about half the things you're mouthing off about the supposed "luxury" and "grown-up" quality this new car possesses.
We've been lucky to have had the car on our shores for a while, and I HAVE seen the car personally. Twice, both good long inspections of every nook and cranny. I've already given my rather underwhelmed impressions in another thread, but I summarise for your benefit :
1) Cramped engine bay. Plasticky cheap looking engine cover. Cheap looking hoses. Overall, way less distinguished looking than that of the IX.
2) Interior is *more* plasticky and less refined looking than that of the IX (except for the Recaros, which are really nice). Most people locally who have directly compared the IX and the X say this.
3) No significant increase in luxury gadgets. No GPS system or reversing camera, for example.
4) Cheap plastic spoiler. No more CF. It's smaller, so some people might think that's "grown up" or whatever. But the spoiler has gone from being one that used to be big but functional (at speed) to one that is pure rice and completely useless. But "grown up looking" with the small size. Or whatever.
5) Boot (trunk) space is nonexistent. The battery is in the back (ok, some have pointed out that's better for weight distribution). But a supposedly "luxurious", "grown up" performance sedan needs a minimum amount of trunk space, and this just doesn't have enough.
6) Dual exhaust is completely unnecessary and pure rice. Or is that "grown up" too?
Please, tell me where the luxury is hiding. My first impression is that it looks like a tarted up Korean car (like the Tiburon Tuscani, for example). I have never felt that way about an older Evo model. Never.
We get the JDM trim here, and I am comparing a JDM X GSR to a JDM IX GSR. Not many here have driven the car yet, so we cannot judge the actual driving experience for ourselves. For what it's worth I know a chap who works in a dealership who has driven the X (5MT) and the IX back to back and says the IX "feels faster". Purely subjective, but at least it's a real opinion.
Oh, before I forget : the car is actually significantly cheaper than the outgoing IX was (when new). Forget about the actual prices - we pay a lot more than you do because of the ridiculous taxes here, but in purely relative terms the JDM X is cheaper here than the JDM IX was (and the prices reflect relative Japanese prices). This holds true even when comparing the new fangled SST version of the X to the old 6MT IX GSR. Do you think Mitsubishi would purposely underprice the car if they're trying to appeal to a richer market segment as has been claimed in this forum *many* times? Or are they just acknowledging that the car is actually more cheaply built overall?
I have no idea why the US price structure seems turned on its head. I can only surmise that either the VIII and IX versions that came to the USDM were so watered down that they were sold cheaply, or that your dealers are gouging you on the X.
We've been lucky to have had the car on our shores for a while, and I HAVE seen the car personally. Twice, both good long inspections of every nook and cranny. I've already given my rather underwhelmed impressions in another thread, but I summarise for your benefit :
1) Cramped engine bay. Plasticky cheap looking engine cover. Cheap looking hoses. Overall, way less distinguished looking than that of the IX.
2) Interior is *more* plasticky and less refined looking than that of the IX (except for the Recaros, which are really nice). Most people locally who have directly compared the IX and the X say this.
3) No significant increase in luxury gadgets. No GPS system or reversing camera, for example.
4) Cheap plastic spoiler. No more CF. It's smaller, so some people might think that's "grown up" or whatever. But the spoiler has gone from being one that used to be big but functional (at speed) to one that is pure rice and completely useless. But "grown up looking" with the small size. Or whatever.
5) Boot (trunk) space is nonexistent. The battery is in the back (ok, some have pointed out that's better for weight distribution). But a supposedly "luxurious", "grown up" performance sedan needs a minimum amount of trunk space, and this just doesn't have enough.
6) Dual exhaust is completely unnecessary and pure rice. Or is that "grown up" too?
Please, tell me where the luxury is hiding. My first impression is that it looks like a tarted up Korean car (like the Tiburon Tuscani, for example). I have never felt that way about an older Evo model. Never.
We get the JDM trim here, and I am comparing a JDM X GSR to a JDM IX GSR. Not many here have driven the car yet, so we cannot judge the actual driving experience for ourselves. For what it's worth I know a chap who works in a dealership who has driven the X (5MT) and the IX back to back and says the IX "feels faster". Purely subjective, but at least it's a real opinion.
Oh, before I forget : the car is actually significantly cheaper than the outgoing IX was (when new). Forget about the actual prices - we pay a lot more than you do because of the ridiculous taxes here, but in purely relative terms the JDM X is cheaper here than the JDM IX was (and the prices reflect relative Japanese prices). This holds true even when comparing the new fangled SST version of the X to the old 6MT IX GSR. Do you think Mitsubishi would purposely underprice the car if they're trying to appeal to a richer market segment as has been claimed in this forum *many* times? Or are they just acknowledging that the car is actually more cheaply built overall?
I have no idea why the US price structure seems turned on its head. I can only surmise that either the VIII and IX versions that came to the USDM were so watered down that they were sold cheaply, or that your dealers are gouging you on the X.
the X surely has a HDD nav system even if you personally haven't seen it. there are tons of pics of it. it has leather, adaptive headlights, cruise control, bluetooth, side airbags, knee airbag, rain sensitive wipers, 650 watt rockford fosgate audio, keyless entry, auto tilt side mirrors in reverse, etc. i dunno what's stock and what's an option but surely the past evos didn't have all this stuff now did it?
it also depends on what you mean by luxury. does it use top grade material with a top grade price? no. it uses relatively cheap stuff but offers things you now EXPECT in a car, ANY car. nowadays civics come with options and amenities only luxury cars had 5-10 years ago. is it a luxury car? no. is it more "luxurious" than evos of the past or cras of the past? YES! that's my point, nothing more. i'm not saying it's a M3 rival. all i'm saying is that you can't fault it for having options and amenities people EXPECT in a $35-40k USD car!
how many people are willing to trade power windows and AC for less weight? that's all i'm saying. let's be realistic. cars get bigger in size and heavier as they get more safe and have more amenities and options.