No, base price for a 6 speed A5 is 39,900. Add 775 for destination from Germany in addition to the 2900 Sline package.

43,575 will be your total. And add 475 if you wanted an upgraded metallic paint.

 

Really? Who here plans on taking their vehicle to Leguna Seca anytime in the near future? Moreover, who lives on the east coast like me, and plans to drive cross country for the same reason? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the context you're speaking from is Cali? I'll gladly go if you'll pay to ship me and my Evo there.

Your points are poignant I will agree, but not very pragmatic. The "crowd" Mitsu is going after more than likely does not have the breadth and depth of knowledge you demonstrated above. Especially potential first time buyers who know nothing of the heritage of the Evo. I would even dare to say that a lot of Evo (insert version here) owners have no idea what a vector is. There are vectors in programming and thrust vectoring on the F22 Raptor, but what average Joe goes to a Mitsu dealership to discuss such things? Meh.

However, if you're in the market for a Retro Encabulator, then it's a different story altogether...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80462773187994

You and this guy should get together and share notes on the future market potential of widgets...LOL

Also,

Is this like saying "it's not the size that counts, but the motion of the ocean."? Or even better yet, is it more like saying an excessively overweight woman is attractive because she has a great personality? Either one you choose, this brings up a very important point. If mitsu is trying to be radical and gain a new following, they could've spent more time wearing their design hats instead of their engineering ones. I think mitsu could've gone back to the drawing board just one more time to rework the looks. The X looks like it's wearing some ancient Samurai armor, which probably is true considering the weight.

Excuse my cynicism, but with our status quo, and looks obsessed culture here in the states, the new crowd of folks the X is targeting is going to be very apathetic. While I understand and am aware of the technology as you so eloquently put it "on the underside", it's not going to make the average layperson take out a second mortgage just to get one.

Let's face it, people are busy and lazy. Unless you're a diehard Evo fanboy, most people will not take the time to research the beast from within. The major flaw is that the X doesn't do a good job from transitioning a potential buyer from visualization to signing the pink slip. It doesn't spark the "wow" factor and make someone want to test drive it to actually get the "holy sh*t!" factor. It still has that "no girls allowed" immature feel to it.



In other words it's still going to exhibit that esoteric Evo tradition and not be very overt.

I've tried, and tried, OMG have I tried to be somewhat of a fictitious personal sales rep. and tell people and friends about the wonderment of the Evo, but to my dismay, they just don't get it. This is especially painful around here in Northern VA where BMW's are the norm. People in general go with what they know and trust. They are very risk averse and it usually takes an act of Congress to sway their opinions.

The X is not going to be doomed, it's just going to stay in the same niche market it always has. The few of us hoons that can appreciate all the technological genius will be elated, but I fear the vast majority will not give two sh*ts...

All this coupled with the weakening US dollar...it's almost laughable and unfortunate timing...

One more thing...

So I suppose you also support the war in Iraq?

 

Dude! Nevermind my friend. Just like the "we'll see" mentality with the X, "we'll see" when the A5 gets here...

I bet I can get the dealer to split with one at "floor plan" prices

 

Oh yeah, and the Sti = FAIL . Let me put it another way. Pretend the Ford Focus is your wife in the first year of marriage. The Sti is your wife 10 years down the road after a few kids and one too many fast food visits.

So to answer the original question. The Sti is doomed. The EVO X, not so much. The Sti is like a red-headed step child, and the EVO X is like an absent father that comes home every 6 months or so to bang your mom. He may be your father, but you don't appreciate him one bit!

 

Your crazy if you think an Audi dealer will sell an A5 or S5 at a cut rate price.

There's already a back-order of S5's as much as 6 months long in many parts of the country. You can't get one even if you wave your checkbook and are willing to pay full price.

You'll be lucky to get a couple hundred off sticker or a set of floormats on Audi's new coupe. But you can always try

 

That's right, I can always try. If that doesn't work, I might have to resort to a 5 finger discount.

 

Ouch! Let me rephrase. If Mitsubishi created a 335i or G37 clone and uses the finest leather and the best gadgets they will sell a few and maybe get a couple two page articles in the top car magazines. Why? Because people looking for luxury cars are not going to go to a Mitsubishi dealership for what is going to be a much worse experience than at a luxury dealership.

Before you question my credentials or knowledge, I should say I spent two years working at a big three car company, and our strategy was always to take apart camrys and accords and build another car just like those two. People would scratch their heads wondering why sales weren't increasing. The problem is the bigwigs didn't take Sun Tzu's Art of War to heart- you cannot attack an entrenched enemy head on- people love their accords and camrys with good reason and have no reason to take a chance on a newcomer.

A medium sized tv ad budget costs around a billion dollars a year, or the approximate development cost of the Evo X. Because the car is what it is, it has already graced many magazine covers before even going on sale, and I guarantee you'll see the Evo X as the cover story of Car and Driver and all the other big mags when the car actually hits dealerships. Mitsu can't afford coverage that's that good.

At Thunderhill (you correctly surmised that I was in CA), drivers of Porsche 997 Turbos and Caymans would ask me all sorts of questions about the car, clearly knowing what it was and how good it was. Quite a few instructors had Evos and STI's, so they sell here in spades. If you're in a place where you can't enjoy a curvy road or a fun drive, then you might be happier with something that isn't an Evo. That's fine. There's enough people in that category to sell a few thousand, and the cars on the magazine covers will make people at least realize that Mitsu has a world class engineering organization. thus making the other products more appealing.

Building a high performance four door sedan is Mitsu's niche, and making a BMW or Audi clone will only result in failure. BMW and Audi simply make better luxury cars for $40K. Mitsu makes better sports cars at that price point.

The fallacy of your argument is that Mitsu is trying to win over new buyers who don't get the Evo IX. That's not the case. Mitsu is trying to win over buyers who appreciate the IX but think it's too hardcore or immature for them. I know many, many people who drive BMW's who are considering the X for the technology and the styling, and these are high earning people in their 30's, the same people who build brands and influence their friends decisions. If your friends don't get the Evo IX, a 335i with a Mitsu badge isn't going to win them over either. Why go with the newcomer if the established brand is SO GOOD at what they are doing. I never try to sell Evos to my friends, though several of them have purchased them based on my experience. It's the wrong car for a lot of people, and that's fine. A Prius is also the wrong car for a lot of people. People should buy what they'll be happy with, and if they don't get the Evo, they won't like owning one. It's as simple as that.


Finally, I resent your use of the Iraq war as an insult. Regardless of whether you support or don't support our presence there, real people are dying there who don't deserve to die, and all we're doing is discussing MMC's strategy for the Evo. MMC did what we asked and all I said is that I hope we put our money where our mouths were. The car is the way it is because that's how the Japanese market wanted it. We're not getting a special engine for the US or a different drivetrain. We're getting what everyone else gets, for the very first time. The car will never sell in 3 series volumes, but it doesn't have to. It's an affordable halo car that your average guy can buy if he works hard and makes good choices. More importantly, it has enough utility to be an only car and more than just a plaything.

 

you also need to think about it this way. the car is priced for many reasons, inflation, economy, upgraded engine, turbo, interior, awc and technical stuff like that. But also you need to think, do you want just anybody to go out and get an evo, i would be pissed if every kid i knew had an evo because it was so cheap. Where i am from the evo is pretty rare to see, plus i see a million m3s and other cars that are a lot more expensive driving around. Its kinda like when was the last time to saw the last generation supra drive by you on the highway, you want to keep it as a rare car.

 

Too bad they don't have a shaking-head-smiley or a sigh-smiley.

These two paragraphs explain pretty much the same point.

And...

In response to the first paragraph above. I'm not questioning your credentials, I was questioning the need for all the fancy engineering talk, but somehow you assumed that I was attacking you in that respect. So, you've expanded my self-awareness that you are a knowledgeable foe, and that's fine. I happen to be an engineer myself, and I'm more than happy to have an engineering discussion offline.

In response to the second paragraph above. You've just expanded on what I said before about people being risk averse and sticking to what they know and trust. Actually, that sentiment is expressed throughout your entire response. I summed it up in one sentence before, but an exhaustive iteration doesn't hurt. So that being said, basically, if my statements are false, the same could be said of yours no?

Also, mitsu has said on numerous occasions that it's trying to "move up-market" with it's brand. So, what would you consider up-market? Up-market performance or up-market total value? The latter is what mitsu is failing in for the most part. Your definition, if I understand you correctly is that basically, mitsu is not trying to move up-market and is improving it's niche, and if they attract new buyers, then so be it? I don't know about you, but I could swear that they are gunning for BMW, Audi, and other Bavarian flavors. Yet, I've been told I'm delusional (not medically) sometimes, so I could be wrong about the numerous articles I've read.

And for the last statement. I was basically comparing you urging us to do what you believe is right to that of the plight in the middle east. I understand what we're talking about here, but urging us to buy something on your merit is like our illustrious leader telling us to the stay the course. I guarantee you that if mitsu didn't have such a loyal following of the Evo, they would've tanked a long time ago. They escaped financial death a few years back, and it's all they can do to keep their head above water. You would think that they would've busted their assess just a little bit more in the design department.

Bottom line is, the overall feel of the X is still niche-y, playtoy-ish and does not appeal to a broader audience like all the plethora of press releases claim, and all the people here on this forum have complained about. We should NOT even have forum topics about "Is the EVO X doomed" and "Who canceled their order for an X" and "EVO vs 135i", etc. etc. I should see nothing of the sort on a forum dedicated to the X. There should be fanboys galore giving praise to all that is the Evo X, but that is not the case. There are more naysayers than there are proponents. Granted the car is not even here yet, but I doubt the sentiments will change.

The Evo has evolved into into an overpriced, aesthetically unpleasing cornering rocket. Don't get me wrong, I think the mechanics of the X are very impressive, hell, I'm mad because I wasn't part of the engineering team, but it missed the mark for all this up-market hype.

Really what I think the problem is, is that they tried too hard this time to please everyone. If our economy wasn't in such turmoil, maybe the X would have great success, but it's basically now crossing their fingers and hope to hell the X sells like hotcakes.

I also think you give the general populace too much credit when comes to appreciating engineering innovation. My experience is that they could care less, just as I'm sure you have experienced in your reverse engineering efforts.

 

That's fine and all, but the esoteric "I want to feel unique" mentality is exactly what mitsu does not need right now financially.

 

Why would you be pissed if every kid you knew drove an Evo? That's a pretty shallow and ignorant statement to make. If driving an Evo makes you feel special and all warm and fuzzy inside then you live a very sad life. Very few people ride the short bus to school but that doesn't make them special....or does it?

Hahahaha nevermind!

 

Don't get too carried away. There is not a 6 month back-order of S5's. As much as Audi and my company would like for it to be true, it just simply isn't the case. Want to know how I know? I work for Audi's advertising agency...

Now, don't get me wrong. The S5 is one hell of a car. I've driven it several times

Every car company needs you as their CEO I'm afraid your ad budget is off the mark. Most car companies spend under $300 million dollars annually for their entire marketing budget. Companies like BMW, Infiniti, Mitsu, Subaru, Mazda and smaller companies. The only companies that spend one billion dollars are Toyota, Nissan, Chevy and Ford. Honda and Hyundai don't even spend a billion dollars. Want to know how I know? I've worked in advertising for 10 years working on car accounts ranging from Mazda to Mitsu to Subaru to Audi. We track all competitors media spending budgets. Sorry man, just had to spead the correct information

 

He meant it more figuratively than literally. Although not many people have access to Laguna Seca, it is a well-known track and most enthusiasts (such as yourself, who knew about it even though you are from the east coast) can relate to it. It's just a more interesting way to say "Insert your favorite cool, twisty, crazy race track here" and breaks up the monotony of always saying "your local :yawn: race track." It was quite obvious to me his intended audience was not exclusively NORCAL residents.

Just because they want new customers doesn't mean they've forgotten their old ones. They put every damn thing in there we asked for and then some, but it's a bit down on power right now. But Evolution means change, and change it will.

My main complaints about my 2003 VIII are:

• Rattling...everywhere! Since day 1 and it just keeps getting worse!
• No active diffs! The driveline technology, although much stronger, is basically only as effective as an Eclipse GSX (which isn't bad, but it ain't GREAT!).
• There is no paddle shifter or sequential manual gearbox! I am one of the few American WRC/F1 fans (can't watch WRC now because SPEED saw fit to replace WRC with NASCRAP which sucks) and as such, I've always wanted a super-cool, rally-car-for-the-road, complete with sophisticated AWD and paddle-shifted ultra-quick sequential manual gearbox. The desire was further enhanced the day I saw a Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale, with its F1 gearbox, in anger at my local track, as it violently lurched forward (and ever-so-slightly sideways) at each upshift (accompanied by a loud "pop"), as it screamed and exploded down the front straight.
• The styling of it is really dated. The beak on the thing has never grown on me, the paint is fading, the wing looks more offensive now because of the F&F crowd, and sitting next to the X, it looks downright ancient in contrast.

As the Evo progressed through the VII, through the IX, and finally now the X, each of these things have been addressed such that there are enough of my grievances addressed that I'm CONSIDERING buying a X. Honestly, if the thing can make it into the low 13's without much trouble, and without bothering the TC-SST, I'm totally sold on it on paper, as that's probably the ONLY complaint I might have. Other than that, it looks to be a fantastic automobile. I've never driven one, which of course will be the deciding factor, when compared to all other cars I find comparable, but that's what I've gathered so far. 0-60 in 5.0s and 1/4 mile in 13.8 @ 202 is not the fastest ever, but it's a good starting point. Especially for those of us who could care less that it won't impress anyone at the local drag strip. Personally, my Evo is the slowest of all my buddies in a straight line, but I don't care that much. I know they are no match for me in the twisties! That's where the Evo is the most fun to me.

But anyway...this is way off topic for this thread. The main question is, is the thing overpriced? If so, is it so overpriced will it move itself right out of the country? Well...it wouldn't have been THAT much more expensive if the dollar didn't poop itself, but now yeah it's going painful in the wallet, there is no doubt about that. If the dollar continues to plummet, the writing may indeed be on the wall for the Evo Stateside, but it will be no fault of Mitsubishi's.

 

Fair enough- I said that I worked for a big three car company, so you can understand why I thought a billion ad dollars was normal. In my world, maybe it was, but I stand corrected. Regardless, I still think that the amount of positive press Mitsu garners from the release of the X is greater than the cost spent developing the car. The Evo gets a disproportionate amount of press given its price and rarity... largely due to that "X" factor that other companies can't replicate. Maybe people don't know S-AWC from xDrive, but they know what they're seeing on the covers of Car and Driver and Road and Track. More importantly, the people making the decisions on what goes on the cover know tha the Evo is interesting and can spread the word on its innate goodness better than any ad campaign. When Automobile Magazine says the Evo IX is more like a Porsche 911 than a Porsche 911 that means a lot without saying a thing about the technology involved.

2speed, as for your rebuttal, we're just circling the toilet bowl. We're both coming from a different set of basic assumptions and therefore can't meet in the middle. Upmarket to me means Mitsu can once again be considered in the same breath as Honda and Toyota, rather than the Kia and Hyundai they compete with today. In that vein, having a kickass niche product like the Evo helps convince consumers that the Lancer or Outlander they buy has some of that DNA. It's what Toyota did with the Supra and what Nissan did with the Z. It has worked with varying degrees of success in the past but is Mitsubishi's best bet.

The Evo is a polarizing car, obviously you feel it could be more like a BMW and could win some of the 3-series and A4 market share. I'm saying that there's no way in hell that could happen, even with a perfect 3 series clone. People buy cars for more reasons than just the car. They buy for the brand and what that brand says about them as a person. Mitsu doesn't have the cachet to impress Joe Luxurycarbuyer, especially if the price is the same. As I said before, I believe Mitsu is at a tipping point with the X where a lot of fencesitters will finally be able to say that the car is practical and stylish enough to be their only car. For those who aren't fencesitters, well, they already bought the VIII and IX. It would be foolish to expect more than a small minority of those owners (who are largely very happy) to trade for an X immediately.

I believe Mitsu's strategy is to put a little bit of the Evo in everything they sell, at least in terms of perception. That's why they make a big deal of the Outlander's aluminum roof and paddle shifters, and that's why there's a Ralliart Lancer coming. The Evo needs to remain a niche product to keep the interest of the press, and Mitsu needs to release mainstream products that reflect some of that Evo-ness. It's important to realize that the Evo can only be a part of MMC's recovery; they need a product line that delivers on the promise of the halo car. From what I see of the Outlander and Lancer, they're on their way.

Some people will hate the car. I say it's impossible to build an Evo for everyone; it's not a Camry. I think the car looks great; and an informal poll of officemates seems to confirm my instinct. Maybe what plays in California doesn't play in Peoria (or NoVA, in your case). That's sad. We have lots of engineers here. Maybe you should move?

As for telling people to buy the X, all I was expressing was my hope that people would realize that they have received what they asked for and act accordingly. I admit a poor choice of words in terms of "doing our part" because the Republicans have conflated previously innocuous phrases like "family", "patriot", and "doing our part" with sinister right-wing meanings. Please trust that I mean no more than what I said.

Let's revisit this topic after the X has been on sale for six months. I predict that the X will be a runaway success and Mitsu will easily move their allocation of cars for the year. Moreover, if they release interesting mainstream products, I think the Evo will cast those cars in a great light. If I'm wrong I will be embarrassed and contrite for a few minutes and then move on with my life, as I'm sure you will.

 

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from if you've only worked at a Big 3 company. And, you are right about the press Mitsu has received for the X...they've gotten quite a bit. It's still not more than the development cost of a car, but it is a lot. The trouble I see Mitsu having with the Evo X, is that they are targeting a new consumer with this car. A consumer who has pretty much zero awareness that a car called the Evo even exists. All the press is great, but their new consumer doesn't always pick up a car magazine and read the articles or browse this forum all day (like car geeks like me do ). The Evo X isn't getting much press in anything but online forums and car magazines. There may be other articles out there, but there aren't many. The trouble for Mitsu is going to be how do they reach their new consumer (PR can't do it all) and attract them to put the Evo X on their shopping list when they've already got BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura and Infiniti on their list. Mitsu has a big task ahead of them