MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

The method of fuel injection to a motor doesn't change the driver inputs that make driving enjoyable.

93HardTopTurbo

iTrader: (1)

From your responses, it appears that you've had lots of firsthand experience with aggressively driving both the GSR and the MR on a closed circuit.

Please share your lap times on both cars. Thanks!

SHIFTT IX MR

are you serious?

I drove up to my dealer about four months ago when they first got the GSR X in, and they let me test drive no problem.

Then again, my S2000 and 350Z were the same as what you are going through. I just waited and told them every couple of months that if they wanted to sell a car they should let me test drive it. Eventually they got sick of me bugging them, and realized that I was actually going to buy the car and that the purpose of the test drive was giving control to the potential customer (myself)- something many cocky dealers won't give up.

In the end, I got what I wanted, and so did they. But I also was able to make them realize that a test drive can mean increased sales. I don't have that problem anymore, at least at any Jap. vehicle dealership. Now, Mercedes Benz and BMW dealerships, well, that's a whole other story.

NunyaBinnez

When I walk in with the cash in hand, I will INSIST on a test drive or I'll tell them to shove the $1k up their...well, you know. Then I'll go buy the AS one sitting on the lot down the road.

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

Those are the LOSING drivers.. The ones with the automated trannies are the winning group.. Lol.. The winners are the ones that do what it takes to WIN, and clearly the automated transmissions are the way to go if you wanna win..

4Trouble

There is never an answer on what is 'pure', what is 'fair', but there is always an answer on what is 'win'.
If there was no restriction on anything, there will be cars that would make Formula 1 cars look like a tricycle, pulling jet fighter like g-force, making dragster horsepower figures, without a driver, using perfectly calculated path, where the highest point of the car would be aerodynamic cover for the wheels.
Currently there are way too many bans and restrictions in automotive sports for driver safety (and the environment up to some point).
But then in this case, these 'cars' will not be involved in races and purely for setting records (time trial), ie. it would no longer be a sport, but a competition for technology and design.

On the involvement side, how much do you want to be involved? Do you want to be pumping fuel manually into the engine while driving? Do you want the challenge of horribly set up suspension? Do you want to start the car using a flintstone? Do you want to be pedalling instead since engine is an 'automatic' power source?

MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

Win what? The Internet pissing contest?

EVOla_VIRUS

iTrader: (16)

he wants to win at being a hot johnson breath

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

When was the last WRC car that you saw, where the driver was shifting manually? Maybe in the amature series.. Or as a last resort when the tranny breaks, they can override the automated shifting to get the car to the finish.. But that is the only way..

F-1, Automated.. Rolex series, Automated..

Keeps the drivers hands on the wheel, and gear exchanges much quicker.. Which is Mitsu's philosophy..

MrBonus

iTrader: (4)

What does this have to do with a street car driven for enjoyment?

DRAGHICI

iTrader: (2)

feeling is one thing, the numbers will make the difference

STi2EvoX

Lap times have nothing to do with it, we are talking about driver involvement. When you can't modulate the clutch and control the amount of torque that is being sent to the wheels it's uninvolving. When you can't row through the gears and control the gear selection with pure mechanical action, it's uninvolving. A true sports car enthusiast will take a stick any day because of this. It's also why porsche offers the GT2 in a six speed manual only, same as many other exotics. It's the same reason that until this year, there was only a manual option in all EVOs and STis. Oh, and if you want to talk about lap times, the GSR is actually faster on high speed tracks, whereas the MR is only faster on slow, technical tracks where a lot of shifting is required. Only then does the tranny offset the added weight and softer sprung suspension. Do some research buddy, you really need to.

That's actually not true at all. You clearly have no understanding or appreciation for what driver involvement really is and think that because on certain tracks an autotragic gearbox can put down a faster lap time by a couple of tenths that it's superior in spite of all the drawbacks, especially in terms of power holding capacity.


Hardly a legitimate comparison to having a stick. That's a ridiculous argument, and one that I'm not going to waste time with because you obviously don't get it. When you have a stick and a clutch, you can control the amount of torque with your left foot and the precise timing and selection of gearing with you right hand. Then comes the joy of pulling off perfect heel and toe downshifts, rev matching with perfection and displaying an actual skill level.

I prefer a stick because like all purists, I have spent time developing my skills and enjoy the connection between man and machine, as your physical efforts and actions make or break the outcome of the race. Paddle shifter trannies are for people who can't or don't want to drive a stick and wanna feel like what they have is better. Sorry, not the case. Sure, they can net SLIGHTLY, and only slightly faster lap times on certain tracks and in competitive racing this matters.

I would argue that they shouldn't even be allowed because driver skill ceases to play as much of a role when everyone has an automatic tranny and this goes against what racing is all about. Driver involvement is not something that you can tag a number to or classify in a magazine. That's the problem here; there's too many "magazine racers" on this forum and not enough real drivers... and if you don't know what that means then you're a magazine racer and have proven my point for me.

CooLeh7

I have been a manual enthusiast for 20 years and can understand why you r so pasionate....but dissagree with ur statement above. U did not mention what 'racing' u r referring to but i guess its the low scale weekend type cos by ur definition, kimi, shuey, lewis, loeb, marcus, petter etc are all non drivers/racers..

We cant fight it forever. Every second counts and yes the current SST may not be there yet but i bet you in a few years it will be significantly faster.

Again to each his own and if u enjoy it you should...... its your own hard earned money. I think u took the initial thread poster comments too personally & it became a SST vs manual war...Both are still evos

4Trouble

Yes, I agree with the above. Driving fun and speed involves a lot more than just selecting gears you want to be in. Driving lines, car momentum, braking points, monitoring and preserving/maximizing wear out parts. You would know if you have raced 50cc go-karts before.

If you are so concerned about 'pure fun', then you bought yourself a wrong car my friend. You're better off driving cars like s2000 or non force induced lotus elise.

CoEVOX

+1. All very valid points. I still bought the 5-spd because it is significantly cheaper, the SST tranny still hasn't proven it can handle serious power mods and I worry about its timing with even moderate mods but some tuners are already proving it is holding up fine so far, and since it is a closed transmission any repairs post-warranty would become very expensive.