POMPOUS_JACKASS

The problem here is that sort of elitist, narrow-minded viewpoint. That just because certain individuals have been to the track or owned x number of cars, or whatever superficial reason, they are automatically some 'privileged' person or part of a superior driver enthusiast group. Well, that is flat out wrong and insulting.

To be an automotive enthusiast is to be someone who has a passion for cars and loves driving the cars they own. To some that may mean the feeling of clutching, shifting, heel-toe downshifting or what have you. To others that may mean something different. The original poster of this thread clearly has an automotive passion for an exciting technology. Just because it does not match YOUR idea of being an enthusiast, you feel the need to flash your thumbs down emoticons and impose elitist viewpoints on everyone who agrees? I'm afraid the only person who deserves a is you, my friend.

STi2EvoX

^Yawn. Clearly what I said went over your head and you didn't really read what I was saying. I never said that the SST is garbage and that anyone who drives one doesn't know anything about cars. I made the point that a true sports car enthusiast will prefer the control and level of driver involvement that a true manual offers and there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The SST trannies are very impressive but they are boring and uninvolving, and shaving two tenths off lap times isn't worth the lack of driver involvement for a true enthusiast.

The real benefit, as even stated by mitsubishi themselves in a press release about the MR vs the GSR, is that the SST opens doors for people who can't or don't want to drive a stick and offers added convenience along with superior shift speed. The GSR is for the purist and true enthusiast; the guy that wants absolute control and a higher level of driver involvement. This is the core base of previous and current evo owners, and mitsu didn't want to divert from that. Thus the reason that the suspension setup of the GSR, at the expense of harshness, is stiffer and offers better handling than the MR, proven by skidpad and slalom tests in all the magazines.

The MR's purpose is to attract potential BMW and AUDI SMG or DSG buyers and lure them in with greater value and performance. THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE MR. The MR's tranny will never hold as much power as the 5 speed and with the added weight, added sound inslation, softer suspension, and lack of a true manual, it will never be the raw driving experience that the GSR is. You can interpret things however you want, but it is what it is.

Oh, and as far as your comment about the "elitist" state of mind is concerned, I would say that someone who actually HAS track experience and has driven a broad range of different cars with both manual transmissions and DSG style transmissions knows what it means to be a true enthusiast more than someone who has probably never even driven a stick, never taken the time to learn proper technique like heal/toe downshifting, and never even taken their car to the track and engaged in any real form of competition. And if you think differently then it clearly shows which category you fall into. No offense.

POMPOUS_JACKASS

And you clearly did not read what I was saying, and further took the liberty to use my post as a way to insult me (and probably more members of this site). You have this arrogance that you are 'true sports car enthusiast' and that you are a 'purist' and it is really ridiculous. For you to speak for ALL sports car enthusiasts stating that there are no ifs ands or buts about your OPINIONS only further reinforces your arrogance. My beef with you is not on your technical points, but rather your readiness to dismiss others who have differing opinions than yours as some lower class of enthusiast. Get off your high horse - everyone has opinions and preferences and those do not make them any less 'sports car enthusiasts'.

To boil down what you have expressed so far in simple terms:
"I like cars and I like them a certain way. If you don't like cars the same way I like them, you don't deserve to be called an enthusiast."

Take a step back and realize how ridiculous that sounds.

STi2EvoX

Read the part that I added at the end of the post. I think that it pretty much says it all. If you can dispute my last paragraph then I would love to hear the response. Oh, and you're still not understanding what I'm saying but that's ok. I'm done and bored with this.

POMPOUS_JACKASS

Wow, this kind of statement really makes me sick. Part of the reason I sold my Porsche is because the community is full of elitists much like yourself. I have enjoyed the fact that every Evo I see and even every STi I see flashes me a thumbs up and there is the mutual respect from having great cars. Well, a person like you brings shame to the label of Evo. You are so high up worshipping yourself that its beyond trying to help. If you insult the members of this site you should expect to have some of them insult you back. But I don't think that you can see far enough past your own glorious aura to realize that.

STi2EvoX

Amazing. So I'm wrong that someone with experience knows more than someone without experience? I guess that by that logic of thinking that I'm an elitist a-hole who brings shame to the evo name. I'm done with this, it's hopeless. See ya around. (I hope I won't, but it's probably unavoidable.)

POMPOUS_JACKASS

No, you're wrong because you're flat out wrong. The first part where you're wrong is where you assume that you know who you are talking to. You know absolutely nothing about me or most members of this site. The one thing you do know about me is that I drive an 08 GSR. But like the rest of your statements, you fail to recognize that my car is clearly a MT and instead try to prove more points with your 'superiority'. I do not doubt the fact that you may have some experience (and a mouth to go with it), but you are wrong to think that it gives you some sort of additional clout above anyone else. You are simply a random person, like myself, that is on the Internet - and you are not better than anyone.

And the single largest thing that you are wrong about is your definition of an enthusiast. The type of person you have been describing is a Guy who likes to drive MT cars (of which I am also one). An enthusiast is someone who appreciates their cars because of how they feel, drive, can do, etc. A person who should not be called an enthusiast is someone who appreciates cars because of how many girls they can attract, how it will help them fit in, how it can make them money, etc.

In other words, choosing to only drive MT does NOT make you a car enthusiast.

STi2EvoX

I think it's funny that you feel as though I've implied that I'm superior to everyone. I've neither said nor implied such, and you're failing to really listen to what I've said. A true sports car enthusiast will prefer a manual becase it offers the greatest level of control and driver involvement. This doesn't mean that someone who drives an MR or any car with a similar type of transmission isn't an enthusiast, it just means that they don't value driver involvement as much as the more hardcore enthusiast. Does that make them less of an enthusiast, well that's subjective but not necessarily so. It makes them less of a purist perhaps, but who cares?

We all love cars, and you've taken what I've said completely the wrong way and gone on a warpath to try to belittle and insult me, and it's unnecessary and something that I'm not going to engage in. Thus why I've not returned any of the personal attacks that you've made towards me. The point of all this was to differentiate between the true enthusiast and the casual enthusiast, and again the truest form of an enthusiast will opt for a manual because it offers greater control and a higher level of driver involvement. That's it, so stop reading so much into it. Now can we please end this conversation?

crgray

just so you know the vw dsg, is sketchy... it enganges reverse and drive slow... its loose, and it doesnt handle much power... to make it handle power the upgrades are close to 4k, and we all know that mitsubishi has about half the intelligence of vw, so the sst is questionable...

STi2EvoX

I'm actually going to disagree with you on that. The tc sst has been hailed as one of the best of it's kind, being far superior to audi's dsg and on par with ferrari's newest forms of the unit. Mitubishi as a company knows how to build a turbo engine better than about anyone else, and to say that mitsu has half the intelligence of vw is both ignorant and flat out wrong. As much as I prefer a manual tranny is doesn't mean that I don't respect the SST, and judging from your comments you should probably go do some research about it before making comments like that.

NoJoy

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...g?t=1168992345

NoJoy

The other big bonus of the GSR is that it is around $4,000.00 cheaper than the MR.

supersupra

iTrader: (8)

++1

4Trouble

Just a summary:

Fastest transmission currently? Sequential dogbox with dual clutch (very different from production sequentials)

You want to be fast on track? Buy a used F1 car and mod it.

You want pure fun? Get a kit car, ie Ariel Atom, Caterham etc.

Also, heel-toe doesn't involve much skill, its kinda like double kick in drumming. It looks very fancy and challenging at first, but once you pick up (if you concentrate hard enough, it should take less than a week to pick up, and couple months to master), you have it forever. Much more challenging than selecting your own gear is the selection of risk you take at each given moment.

93HardTopTurbo

iTrader: (1)

I've done my research but I'm not looking for pro driver opinions because I don't have pro driver skills. I'd like to know how a driver with "normal" skills does with both the GSR and MR. It seems to me, from a number of your posts, that you're not a pro driver (no offense) and by speaking with such authority on the topic, I assumed that you've had firsthand experience testing both cars extensively in a track (not even race) environment to declare that the MR is uninvolving and boring. If you're merely quoting what you're read from magazines and the Interwebz, then I apologize for my assumption. You're merely expressing an opinion with no firsthand experience to back it up.

Regarding driver involvement, I completely understand where you're coming from. I've got a MR2 that I've autox'ed and am building into a dedicated track car (I need some bigger wheels and a cage and I'm done). Not to mention my R6 race bike. Do you track your X GSR often? Would love to hear a detailed review.

Thanks.