Alluminum 4B11T
May 18, 2007, 10:47 AM
#151
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The displacement is the same, so it's the same size as far as anyone is concerned. So what if you get an engine compartment that's a bit more cramped? Who cares?
The Al block can perform the same as iron power wise and help in handling of the car because of the weight loss.
Iron sleeves are there not just for localized strength. Ferrous materials have better wear resistance than Al does. They also have a higher melting point. I believe that the thermal expansion of iron is also less than Al, keeping tighter tolerances. That's why we use them.
May 18, 2007, 11:38 AM
#153
Why will Aluminum perform better due to heat loss? The more heat that escapes an engine, the worse its efficiency is (engine theory 101). Not only is iron structurally stronger, it does not wear down as fast (cylinder bore wears less), and it also expands less when heated (which is very important in high temperature turbocharged engines). Aluminum has ALWAYS been a limitation for tuners, but you are right we will have to wait and see...I'm willing to bet Mitsu dropped the ball on the engine design (as it has done in the past). Don't get me wrong, Mitsu had the right idea in attempting to lighten the engine, however why is the engine lighter but the entire curb weight of the car is way higher? Something is wrong with the new Evo.
May 18, 2007, 11:51 AM
#154
Why will Aluminum perform better due to heat loss? The more heat that escapes an engine, the worse its efficiency is (engine theory 101). Not only is iron structurally stronger, it does not wear down as fast (cylinder bore wears less), and it also expands less when heated (which is very important in high temperature turbocharged engines). Aluminum has ALWAYS been a limitation for tuners, but you are right we will have to wait and see...I'm willing to bet Mitsu dropped the ball on the engine design (as it has done in the past). Don't get me wrong, Mitsu had the right idea in attempting to lighten the engine, however why is the engine lighter but the entire curb weight of the car is way higher? Something is wrong with the new Evo.
The only thing we can talk about so far is the exterior of the EVO X, everything else is yet to be known.
May 18, 2007, 12:24 PM
#155
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Not only is iron structurally stronger, it does not wear down as fast (cylinder bore wears less),
May 18, 2007, 01:48 PM
#156
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Additionally, there is no hard evidence of the EVO X's weight, or what was used to estimate the weight. It could be that the DSG tranny is heavier. It could also be factoring in the new Nav system, side-impact airbags, and other features/options. Also, (I could be wrong here, please correct me if I am) but I thought the US 8 and 9 didn't have the AYC and left/right torque control that the rest of the world got. If that's so, then the S-AWC system will certainly add weight. Those front and rear diffs are far more complex, and I'm sure heavier, than a simple LSD.
Cars keep getting heavier for a multitude of reasons, but the biggest factors are market pressure and ever-increasing safety and emissions standards. You can walk away from crashes in today's cars that would have been lethal 10 years ago. And today's cars provide a much more comfortable driving environment than those older cars as well.
Jan 7, 2008, 04:37 PM
#159
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I do not want my engine block to dissipate heat better. I want it to hold the heat in, and dissipate heat evenly. Also, even Martin Musial said (in 0-60 magazine) that the 4b11 will need a lot of work to put down real horse power. Iron=no warping.
Jan 7, 2008, 05:33 PM
#161
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Ummmm, no offense but your opinion is not an automatic fact. 4G63 putting down 1500HP? Maybe, but I am more then sure that the only thing this 1500HP engine has with a stock 4G63 is the oil cap as everything else was modified/reworked. Cast iron is an old technology, it's heavy, not efficient, and doesn't absorb heat as well as aluminum. 4G63 advantage from the get go was that it was smartly engineered, you can't tell me that every cast-iron engine is great, there is a lot of weak units out there, it's all about great engineering. Aluminum engines can be as strong as cast iron when properly shaped, it will not only weight less, absorb heat better, but it will be actually more environment friendly as the lighter construction will require less fuel to get it going. Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW (just to name a few) has been using alumium engines for a while (they went away from cast iron), are you trying to tell me that you know something more then they do?
A 1500HP 4G63 block is actualy not that much different besides being filled with concrete. Show me some aluminum alloy four cylinder engines that make 1500hp, and don't come back with some heat dissapation nonsense.
As someone mentioned earlier, for large displacement engines, the alluminum vs cast iron issue isn't as big of a deal, as these engines don't exactly have the same stress levels at say, 600hp as an engine with 120 some odd cubic inches of displacement. It IS crucial for the small displacement engines. This is why engines like the 4G63, 2JZ-GTE ect have a reputation for making so much power.
Bah, most of you guys really could give two craps about these cars anyhow, alot of you guys came straight to the Evo world from Hondas/Nissans ect, so most of you can't really appreciate what made the 4G63 incredible. Sad...
Jan 9, 2008, 09:08 PM
#162
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[/Quote]Bah, most of you guys really could give two craps about these cars anyhow, alot of you guys came straight to the Evo world from Hondas/Nissans ect, so most of you can't really appreciate what made the 4G63 incredible. Sad...[/QUOTE]
Haha...that is aswome!
-from a former Honda guy.
Haha...that is aswome!
-from a former Honda guy.
Jan 27, 2008, 08:59 PM
#163
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I think people forget how much has been done with the 4G63. Having been released in the mid 1980s when the turbocharged era of Formula 1 was coming to a close, we have a 2 liter production engine that is now getting nearly as much power as some of the 1.5 liter F1 custom designed engines running on just about whatever fuel they can dream up did then. I hope the new engine is great, but the 4G63 is legend.
Jan 28, 2008, 12:49 AM
#164
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Al will soon be the only way to go...
Aluminum (whether you want it or not) is coming & by all car makers. check out this article:
http://www.aluminum.org/ANTemplate.c...ontentID=11874
i haven't found the other article yet, but supposedly all cast engine blocks are going away in 2012 in favor of aluminum.
here's the twin turbo BMW 123d that we won't get making 204hp AND getting 45+mpg:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11...l-cant-get-it/
http://www.aluminum.org/ANTemplate.c...ontentID=11874
i haven't found the other article yet, but supposedly all cast engine blocks are going away in 2012 in favor of aluminum.
here's the twin turbo BMW 123d that we won't get making 204hp AND getting 45+mpg:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11...l-cant-get-it/
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