Here's the MOTOR TREND article (56k beware)
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 244
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From: Midwest
MisterSpoot
Yeah, you make a good point about the reasons for street racing..
I probably overreacted quite a bit, I've just never been a fan of any hint of an "i'm better than you" kind of attitude.
People who underestimate the STI will learn quickly how wrong they are. The STI and Evo are both great cars, I wish people didn't feel the need to tear down on either one. I would defend on both sides if needed, I think everyone should be more then happy with what they drive. Especially if they're driving cars of this caliber. Magazines aren't the end all but there are knowledgable and experienced staff behind alot of them. So far they're all we have to go behind on the MR. So I don't find it so strange that we're using them as a common medium to discuss these cars.
Yeah, you make a good point about the reasons for street racing..
I probably overreacted quite a bit, I've just never been a fan of any hint of an "i'm better than you" kind of attitude.
People who underestimate the STI will learn quickly how wrong they are. The STI and Evo are both great cars, I wish people didn't feel the need to tear down on either one. I would defend on both sides if needed, I think everyone should be more then happy with what they drive. Especially if they're driving cars of this caliber. Magazines aren't the end all but there are knowledgable and experienced staff behind alot of them. So far they're all we have to go behind on the MR. So I don't find it so strange that we're using them as a common medium to discuss these cars.
Originally Posted by MisterSpoot
I wouldn't say the occasional elitist at the track is keeping kids on the street. I think track fees, getting to the track, not having friends already there, and the general ignorance that the track exists keeps the kids on the street. The street is a scene. It's popular. Going to the track would be akin to no longer going to whatever night club or hangout to take up swing dancing.
But, there's the occasional elitist everywhere (not calling you one, ZX3). Be it at the track, or even dorkier hobbies I've participated in where -- honestly -- these people are lucky they have people talking to them that they can consider putting down.
Hate to say it, but there's a number of Evolution, WRX/STi drivers that go to tracks and talk trash to Porsche 911 Turbo drivers simply because of magazine-only experiences. It's funny to watch, and then see the far more competent 911TT driver lay waste to the novice in the Evolution.
When I start autocrossing, I'm not going to look at every 2005 STi and go "no sweat, the MR is better". I'm going to "aww ****, if he's any better than I am, he's going to outplace me unless he makes a mistake". To me, every STi that shows up to an event is the potential for me to drop one position on the board, but to a few thick-headed individuals out there (there's some on every board), they'd just wrongfully dismiss them.
Come to think of it, when I joined the local Porsche Car Club chapter, I had to go in for a meet before I was accepted. They apparently had one or two bad eggs with WRX's come in that they decided weren't worth their time because of all the hell they raised. They were relieved that I didn't subscribe to magazine racing ideologies, and I'm now in and get to learn from drivers better than I am, and even behind the wheels of those incredible machines.
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Oh yeah, Neil. I bought two Motor Trends -- One to read and one to save. Now, what about the cupholder comparo I keep asking for?
But, there's the occasional elitist everywhere (not calling you one, ZX3). Be it at the track, or even dorkier hobbies I've participated in where -- honestly -- these people are lucky they have people talking to them that they can consider putting down.
Hate to say it, but there's a number of Evolution, WRX/STi drivers that go to tracks and talk trash to Porsche 911 Turbo drivers simply because of magazine-only experiences. It's funny to watch, and then see the far more competent 911TT driver lay waste to the novice in the Evolution.
When I start autocrossing, I'm not going to look at every 2005 STi and go "no sweat, the MR is better". I'm going to "aww ****, if he's any better than I am, he's going to outplace me unless he makes a mistake". To me, every STi that shows up to an event is the potential for me to drop one position on the board, but to a few thick-headed individuals out there (there's some on every board), they'd just wrongfully dismiss them.
Come to think of it, when I joined the local Porsche Car Club chapter, I had to go in for a meet before I was accepted. They apparently had one or two bad eggs with WRX's come in that they decided weren't worth their time because of all the hell they raised. They were relieved that I didn't subscribe to magazine racing ideologies, and I'm now in and get to learn from drivers better than I am, and even behind the wheels of those incredible machines.
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Oh yeah, Neil. I bought two Motor Trends -- One to read and one to save. Now, what about the cupholder comparo I keep asking for?
Amen!
I myself am going to be prepared to get passed by Nissan sentra's and civics as well! When on the learning curve for something new, best to leave your ego at the door.
Percy
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 142
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From: Monterey Park
Originally Posted by The Bear
Ugg, me drivey more dan u. 
I hope that assuming most of the people on here don't know how to drive made you feel like more of a man. Cause it sure made you sound like a *****. The last thing I need is some self-righteous ignoramus on the internet telling me how to live. I don't know if you can tell, but it is probably people like you that keep others from attending an autoX or track event. Not everyone gets into cars to recapture some of the feelings and immature behavior they displayed in highschool.
So what team and series do you race in? Do you think those guys in the SCCA Pro Rally and what not act like you do? Maybe they would look down on a weekend warrior. Mitsubishi makes street cars, we can do to them what we want, and use them how we want. Most of us are hopefully aware that our car's limits can't really be safely tested on the street. But we don't need to go through you, the all-mighty hairy chested authority, to decide when we choose to do that. I'm guessing you were born on a track with the skills of Schumacher genetically implanted from the start.
I hope that assuming most of the people on here don't know how to drive made you feel like more of a man. Cause it sure made you sound like a *****. The last thing I need is some self-righteous ignoramus on the internet telling me how to live. I don't know if you can tell, but it is probably people like you that keep others from attending an autoX or track event. Not everyone gets into cars to recapture some of the feelings and immature behavior they displayed in highschool.
So what team and series do you race in? Do you think those guys in the SCCA Pro Rally and what not act like you do? Maybe they would look down on a weekend warrior. Mitsubishi makes street cars, we can do to them what we want, and use them how we want. Most of us are hopefully aware that our car's limits can't really be safely tested on the street. But we don't need to go through you, the all-mighty hairy chested authority, to decide when we choose to do that. I'm guessing you were born on a track with the skills of Schumacher genetically implanted from the start.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 68
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Well said, MisterSpoot, and everyone who reiterates the point that these cars only perform as well as the drivers inside them. My hunch is that very few of us have the skills of those pros driving the cars for the MT review, so those times just mean the upper limits of the cars.
Nearly every AutoX event I go to in my city, there's a dude in a modded Miata (handling mods mostly) that walks away with FTD. Does he have the most HP? Not by a long shot -- he's often a few seconds ahead of 996's and modded M3's -- yet he beats them with his superior akill and experience (he's in his mid 60's). It's very humbling and a constant reminder that what you buy only gets you *potential* -- the performance you realize is mostly dependent on your skills as a driver.
Nearly every AutoX event I go to in my city, there's a dude in a modded Miata (handling mods mostly) that walks away with FTD. Does he have the most HP? Not by a long shot -- he's often a few seconds ahead of 996's and modded M3's -- yet he beats them with his superior akill and experience (he's in his mid 60's). It's very humbling and a constant reminder that what you buy only gets you *potential* -- the performance you realize is mostly dependent on your skills as a driver.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
We have taken 7 deposits for Evo MR's yet I still don't know the MSRP and I'm a manager?!!!
We have a total of 16 coming with in a months time frame. But we have about 40 people who really want one
Hey I'm being strait up with you guys, If you think these cars are going without a mark up your sadly mistaken. We are taking Deposits for MSRP but don't think that the deposit is going to be applied to the overall price.
We have a total of 16 coming with in a months time frame. But we have about 40 people who really want one
Hey I'm being strait up with you guys, If you think these cars are going without a mark up your sadly mistaken. We are taking Deposits for MSRP but don't think that the deposit is going to be applied to the overall price.
40 peopple who really want one out of 16 and you think they won't mark up? 16 for 40 is good odds some are willing to pay $37k + And if mitsu hears about lots of sales managers signing @ MSRP contracts early on, you think it would be beyond them to raise the MSRP on release? Nope. Ah the beauty of limited production vehicles.
And no where did I bash the MR, I only asked why you would pay hiked prices for 1 second better on paper which won't even matter when you run head to head against an STi on the street or a track, because like everyone has said. We can't drive like them. I also don't want to see you guys getting screwed on warranty and service if mitsu flops or takes a break from the U.S. market as they have been considering.
Last edited by STiLiSH; Sep 5, 2004 at 05:24 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 118
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Originally Posted by 1QWKEVO
1.11g's !!!! wow man the slalom speed should have been faster with that kind of grip... Something doesn't add up
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 574
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From: New Bedford, MA
STiLish, I was going to respond to your little... whatever that was, but I realized something. It's not worth my time. I guess all the folks in Britian who paid quite a sum for their FQ-340s are foolish too? What about the STi WR1? Those are limited to a mere 500 vehicles -- are they foolish as well?
As for cars on the street, if any car revs their engine at me, I'll just shake my head and they can go get their rocks off with someone else.
Seriously, you can't debate well, and no one here is looking for posts of this nature anyways. Save your breath, and either be constructive, or look elsewhere.
As for cars on the street, if any car revs their engine at me, I'll just shake my head and they can go get their rocks off with someone else.
Seriously, you can't debate well, and no one here is looking for posts of this nature anyways. Save your breath, and either be constructive, or look elsewhere.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 48
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From: Rancho Cucamonga
Originally Posted by erikgj
Getting back to the article. I sure hope that MT is wrong about the MR having a electronic throttle. Several errors in the article make me hope that they're incorrect here also. Mr. Neil?
Originally Posted by DjTyTanium
I did not see it say anywhere in the article that the MR has an electronic throttle. It says it has an electronic rev limiter when the clutch is pressed but didn't see anything about electronic throttle.
Last edited by erikgj; Sep 5, 2004 at 08:28 PM.
Just got my copy... One cool thing I notice in the magazine:
0-30, the Evo and the Sti are as good as any car in the world:
Ferrari Enzo: 1.4s
Ford GT: 1.6s
Carrera Gt: 1.5s
Evo MR: 1.5s
STi: 1.2s (!!!)
My Evo: 1.0s
Of course those other cars quickly pull ahead on the way to 11 sec 1/4s and hit 100mph 5-6 seconds faster, but still it's cool that $30K can hang with $650K up to 30
0-30, the Evo and the Sti are as good as any car in the world:
Ferrari Enzo: 1.4s
Ford GT: 1.6s
Carrera Gt: 1.5s
Evo MR: 1.5s
STi: 1.2s (!!!)
My Evo: 1.0s
Of course those other cars quickly pull ahead on the way to 11 sec 1/4s and hit 100mph 5-6 seconds faster, but still it's cool that $30K can hang with $650K up to 30
Originally Posted by Clue?sion
Hey I'm being strait up with you guys, If you think these cars are going without a mark up your sadly mistaken. We are taking Deposits for MSRP but don't think that the deposit is going to be applied to the overall price. But I can tell you this if you do buy an MR, buy it from a dealer who understands the market and they buyer. One reason we ask for a slight markup, because we take exceptional care of our cars. We have only one Evo set aside for demoing purposes, all the other are stored in a secure underground storage facility. Owners even have the option of having the car directly flatbeded to there house or dyno facility as soon as the shipment truck arrives at the dealership. None of our evo have been abused by sales personel or JACK customers (except for the demo). How many of you Bought your evo with less than 5 miles on it, I DID.
My point is if you want the best selection and a good price give us a call
Ask for the two managers that own Evos themselves
Joe and Robert
Santa Monica Mitsubishi
(866)-925-4444
My point is if you want the best selection and a good price give us a call
Ask for the two managers that own Evos themselves
Joe and Robert
Santa Monica Mitsubishi
(866)-925-4444
I'd just like to say:
OH MY GOD, STOP IT NOW!!!!!
All I wanted to do was post the article, not start a *****-fest over which car is better for what reason, why we can't drive 10/10ths on the street or track and how dealerships are going to be c%*ksuckers and mark up the MR to rediculous proportions.
Quit acting like over-testosteroned teenagers and face the ultimate fact: on any given day, at any given time, 2 drivers, one in an MR the other in an STi, the race will come down to who ever makes the "fatal mistake".
THE END
OH MY GOD, STOP IT NOW!!!!!
All I wanted to do was post the article, not start a *****-fest over which car is better for what reason, why we can't drive 10/10ths on the street or track and how dealerships are going to be c%*ksuckers and mark up the MR to rediculous proportions.
Quit acting like over-testosteroned teenagers and face the ultimate fact: on any given day, at any given time, 2 drivers, one in an MR the other in an STi, the race will come down to who ever makes the "fatal mistake".
THE END
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Originally Posted by MisterSpoot
These cars are so bloody close anyways, it all comes down to the driver more than anything else.
Originally Posted by cmf
Look at the stats in the article -- they could easily be two runs from the same car.
Originally Posted by MisterSpoot
Most Evolution and STi drivers can't wring more than 8/10ths out of their car anyways, and the majority don't take them to the track. The difference to how those cars perform is in the driver's abilities, and their ability to adapt to the different vehicle dynamics.
Originally Posted by cmf
that what you buy only gets you *potential* -- the performance you realize is mostly dependent on your skills as a driver.
Seriously, a lot of you need to read this:
http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm
Mag racing is below the bottom level.
john