Slideways8

That's really why I made this post in the first place. If the car had a half decent tune on it already I wouldnt worry so much as long as I stayed out of boost. But the maps are soo effed that I dont know what it's going to do lol

Biggiesacks

oh ok i get it, those afr's in your log aren't readings from a sensor they are afr map lookups?

Do you have a wideband installed? If so can you log that data and add load, and tps, and MAP into your log as well.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

You're just cruising, don't really need the wideband. Can log STFT and get a good idea of what it needs.

Biggiesacks

true that, just if he had one it would be nice to see what it was reading. We already know something is not right with that -12.5 ltft though. A wideband reading would at least give us an idea of where he is at after that much fuel is being pulled and I believe that is the default max it can go, so basically he i has hit the rail on what the stock system can compensate for. I guess at least its running rich and not the other way.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

-12.5 means the system is rich, and the trim is pulling fuel. I wonder which trim it is. If it's the low trim, it confirms what I said earlier as to why the fuel table is 19.2 in the idle area. Tuner used the fuel map to pull fuel in open loop, and is letting closed loop "fix" the base map that isn't right.

Biggiesacks

I think it was his LTFT-Mid based on what he posted. What i said might have been a little confusing, just meant it was better that it was running rich then lean which would have been a positive LTFT like you said.

Slideways8

Hey guys sorry about delay in replies, I'm at work so I get on here when I can. I do have a wideband and it mostly reads that I'm lean, 14.9-15.4 area and a random 13 here and there. But even adding some load to my driving I don't see anything under 13 which is sketchy. And in that piece of a log I posted with excel, it was showing mostly 19... yikes. Wayyyyyyyyyyy to lean.

RightSaid fred

I don't see a fuel pressure gauge on the mod list nor a proper FPR.

I DO see a 300 litre per hour pump though.


So .......you're NOT going to get it tuned 'til you've got the pressure right.


The universal problem with fuel.

Slideways8

yea I know. A lot of the mods were already on the car when I got it and it was "supposedly tuned". After I rebuilt the engine I added the cams, kiggly hla and arp head studs. Ran the car for a few weeks and it drove fine. I did the turbo, manifold, ebcs, cop kit, fuel rail and damper and what not and was supposed to get tuned but that fell through. I had talked to several tuners before hand and no one mentioned not having the gauge or regulator as an issue, so I never thought anything of it. However I do agree it could be contributing to my problem and I'm looking into getting them ordered. I guess I was so wrapped up in what was already on the car and what I added, that I overlooked the fuel system. Now I've never messed with injectors that were over like 600cc and I've also never messed with bigger fuel pumps. I've always lightly modded cars, but the deal on my Evo was very good and that stuff was already there when I got it so I just assumed it was good to go like that. But I'm currently glued to the forums researching everything I can and with the help of a new friend, I'm learning how to diy tune my car, and so far so good. We switched it back to 93 octane from E85 (locations that sold it were few in numbers and it began to become a pita)

But currently through the process ive uncovered multiple issues with my car and the old tune. So I'm replacing things here and there and learning as I go. But I'll definitely be getting a new fpr and gauge.

RightSaid fred

"Tuning" means tuning.
It's about getting everything right.


Unfortunately a lot of people think that "tuning" means messing with the software and nothing else.

Software doesn't work on bad hardware.
Therefore you HAVE to get the hardware working properly first.
Until the hardware is right....logs are meaningless.
The fuel pressure is ALWAYS wrong (too high at low load) when you fit a bigger pump and leave the stock FPR in place.


When you "tune" the computer by telling it what the flow rate of the injectors are, you're inputting a fixed number which corresponds to the injector flow rate in CC per min at 100% IDC and 3 bar of pressure across the injector. It doesn't really have to be 3 bar, a lot of non turbo mitsubishis run at 3.5 bar but the pressure has to be 100% stable under all conditions otherwise it just won't work right.
That's the difference in pressure between the fuel pressure gauge and the manifold pressure gauge.


So you're completely wasting your time messing with any software until the pressure is 100% stable.

They're NOT tuners.

They're just software fiddlers.


Avoid at all costs, they'll just blow up your engine for you.


With a petrol tune, you should be able to take a stock map, change the injector size to suit, nothing else, it should run reasonably well at low and mid boost levels.
Once you start messing with all the things that you shouldn't be messing with, you 'll just screw it all up.
Then you're best to start again from scratch.

Slideways8

Well, I know there's more to tuning than just clicking away at a laptop. Tuning is the process of making all of the modifications done to the car work in conjunction with each other to produce the most optimal results. The only point to this thread was just seeking help with trying to get the car from point A to point B. I'm not at all trying to tune for performance right now at all, as its the least of my worries. Like I said before though, the injectors and fuel pump were already installed on the car when I bought it, and due to some foreseen circumstances I'm just trying to make the best of my situation and get the car to go down the road without risking serious damage. It was to my knowledge that the car could still be somewhat dialed in to run fine, and that without an aftermarket FPR, I cant utilize the full potential of the injectors and fuel pump and essentially they're being wasted and can cause random afr spikes and dips. But I was under the impression that they can still be somewhat calibrated to function decently with the stock FPR given the proper parameters set in EcuFlash. I know I wont be able to run any boost and advanced timing but like I said earlier, not what I'm trying to accomplish right now. I just need a way to and from work. I still have a lot of issues I need to address with the car before I even consider "tuning" for power. I haven't had the car long so I am still fixing mistakes made by the previous owner. Why he installed huge injectors and fuel pump without a FPR is anyone's guess. But I can only do so much at a time, and right now my priority is just getting the car to run decently as it is my only vehicle currently (long story)
After that I can worry about properly utilizing the goodies under the hood. But until then, I dont care if it runs like a stock Evo. I just want it to go down the road without constant sketchy AFR's and random bogging making me feel more paranoid than a stoner in a gas station at 3am getting munchies with a cop standing behind in the checkout line every time I drive it.

Slideways8

So for everyone else that was curious, I posted the wrong logs on evoscan (my bad) I wasn't paying attention to the files and recorded mostly useless information lol. So update as of recently, I actually got the E85 tune running decently. There was a lot of issues and shortcuts taken by the tuner who previously tuned the car, and I spent several days with the help of a friend sorting through it (the "tuner" that did the original E85 tune set it to force the car into constant open loop and was adjusting AFR map to compensate for poorly scaled injectors and latencies and didnt bother rescaling the maf comp and SD settings)
BUT we were able to get it under control and I was pretty happy with the E85 tune. So NOW, after switching to 93 octane due to E85 stations being few in number in my area (got tired of panicking over low fuel and not being near a station), I got the car running on 93, but since the injectors are extreme overkill for pump gas, I'm having a hard time getting them to chill. (yea yea I know FPR blah blah blah)
but even with the way it is now I shouldnt be fighting this hard with it. I'm seeing -25 trims at idle and around -12/15 while cruising. I've tried multiple scaling and latency settings and even contacted DW and had them email me the data for the injectors so I wouldnt have to guess as much but still dealing with it being stupid rich especially at idle (seeing around 10.5-11.00 at idle) I've adjusted my VE% all over the board and readjusted the calibration and still no improvement. Boost leak test was good and I'm getting good compression across the board. Installing the spoolinup cop solved a few issues and I'm getting correct vac now (stock ignition system was malfunctioning causing multiple misfires at idle and was only seeing -10 at most on vac, with cop and new plugs I'm seeing -17/-20)

I've adjusted the timing very conservatively for safety based off of a tephramod rom, And the AFR map is conservative as well even though I know the relationship between real time AFR and the AFR map isn't that simple as set and go. So really right now if anyone has any ideas as to what I could do to try and fix it that would be great lol. I tried rescaling the maf compensation, adjusting IPW adders and enrichment tables, I even added, tried, then pulled ISCV to see if it helped one way or the other. Adding ISCV made the car fire up instantly and idle great for about 10 sec, then the AFR's dropped to the 10s and the car stating acting like a punk. I'm stilling trying different things and searching the forums, but I cant get rid of this sparkplug drowning enrichment issue. UGHHH

Maybe I should raise idle a little and advance the timing a tad to pull more air during idle to see if that makes any difference?

Slideways8

So as of today 07/02/2017.
I've been adjusting the injector scaling and latency settings for a few days now and I was still fighting with pig rich AFR's at idle (like high 10s low 11s). After spending all weekend and many hours of trial and error, 2 sets of spark plugs, and one massive headache later, I managed to get the fuel trims averaging -3.7/+2.1 and AFR's are finally stabilized. As expected with Speed Density, I'm having the typical lean tip in issue and lean at idle with A/C on, but I'm working on a solution. Next I plan to attack my SD VE settings and get it lined out better (they aren't really too far off as they sit currently now that the injectors are set up)
If everything continues to go smoothly and the car keeps responding like it has been today, then I will start working on timing and low level boost. And the reason for that is because no matter how hard I try to stay out of boost, It's almost impossible around my area with the traffic and these roads. Not to mention the fact that I mostly travel via interstate, and sometimes you gotta press that throttle a little harder if you don't want a mini van in your back seat lol. But I've been studying threads day and night and getting as much tuning advice as possible since I first started this thread and I'm making a lot of progress. The fuel map I made is decent and pretty conservative, however I am still smoothing some areas out but I'm pretty happy with it for the most part. I went back through the timing map I made, and pulled some timing in areas for safety measures and smoothed it out quite a bit. No issues with knock so far, so I'm pretty pleased with that. I'm still no where near ready to attempt to adjust my maps for power just yet, but at least I have the stupid thing responding much better now and I feel much more comfortable driving the car around (trying my best to stay out of boost of course). However just for the sake of science, earlier today when driving around while doing some logging, I did a light tip in to about 5psi just to see how my adjustments were working out, and the AFR's hit 11.4 so thats pretty good considering my current lack of skills lol. I plan to keep researching as much as possible and keep tweaking here and there and just MAYBE I'll eventually be able to get this Evo where it deserves to be. But for now, the important thing is I have the car stable and safe enough to daily drive. Now I will be able to start finishing up with taking care of the small issues and whatnot and adding a few more things such as a proper FPR and pressure gauge. Also recently acquired an oil pressure gauge (someone gave it to me brand new cause they didn't need it, lucky me lol) and I got a gauge pod and the wiring for it so I'll be putting that in soon as well. This whole ordeal has royally sucked.... BUT it forced me into a corner and made me start learning how to tune this thing myself, which is usually the best thing an Evo owner can do from what I hear lol.

I'm sure no one cares lol, but for anyone that might be curious, I'll occasionally post updates and progress as I go.

Now, back to EcuFlash and google searches I go lol.

mines5

That is how i dived into tuning stuff.