AWD and 4G63 engine in a lancer, read it before you flame it please
Anything can be done with enough money.. Hell, Full Race has a AWD Nissan 240 with a Skyline GT-R RB26DETT motor swap.
http://www.full-race.com/r14/history.php
http://www.full-race.com/r14/history.php
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Springfield, MO
That's some cool stuff, I've heard it's a lot harder to fit a4G63 into a lancer than a mirage, and I dunno if I'll try, but I do want AWD on it. I'm not really doing it for the sleeper look, heck I'm not even sure why I wanna do this, I just do. It just nags at me every time I look at my car till I can't take it. Maybe I'm nuts, maybe I just can't deal with the fact that we never got the AWD option on lancers, I dunno. Assuming I could get the tranny to line up, a 2.4 probably would be a better engine platform, but it's problably not much of an easier swap into an '03 than the 4G63. Unfortunately, swapping the body panels and adding a ralliart body kit won't work, because then the fenders are too narrow for the wheels, so I'd have to roll the fends, and I'm back to stock evo, lol.
Ambystom01: Very good and important advice, which I am seriously considering all of, hence why I haven't went out and started trying to buy parts yet. I'm still not 100% sure this can be done with any degree of reliability or safety of driving, and so I'm not ready to attempt this project yet. I'm just in the research and data collecting stage so that if I do this, I do it right. Your warning is appreciated.
LoRo: No offense but with 200,000 one could probably build an Lancer from raw materials. I'm not wasting my time, and I've talked to my local dealership and as I posted before, they can't even tell an ES airscoop from an Evo or Ralliart one without the part number. I could definately learn something from Ralliart UK or even Mitsu Japan, heck even Mistu North America would probably have some good info for me, but I need to talk to the builders, not the sellers, and at my dealership, sellers are practically all they have.
Dem_Z: Unfortunately, I've yet to find a Lancer from the Phillipines with AWD, it doesn't seem to be an option there either.
Petey: I looked under the rear-end today, and I think you may be right, again, I wanna see the underside of an AWD Cedia and or Evo, to compare and get ideas.
I think if it can be done the most reliable and feasible way in the end would be to import the required components from an AWD Cedia the problem lies in price and finding a motor/tranny combo that will work with the Lancer's engine bay, left hand drive, and AWD. Obviously I could import the engine, tranny and drivetrain from an AWD Cedia, but then I'd be stepping down to a 1.6 liter engine, and I doubt there's any US aftermarket for the 4G15. I still haven't been able to track down any good info on the '03 cedia's with AWD, and what engine/trannies they were equipped with.
Ambystom01: Very good and important advice, which I am seriously considering all of, hence why I haven't went out and started trying to buy parts yet. I'm still not 100% sure this can be done with any degree of reliability or safety of driving, and so I'm not ready to attempt this project yet. I'm just in the research and data collecting stage so that if I do this, I do it right. Your warning is appreciated.
LoRo: No offense but with 200,000 one could probably build an Lancer from raw materials. I'm not wasting my time, and I've talked to my local dealership and as I posted before, they can't even tell an ES airscoop from an Evo or Ralliart one without the part number. I could definately learn something from Ralliart UK or even Mitsu Japan, heck even Mistu North America would probably have some good info for me, but I need to talk to the builders, not the sellers, and at my dealership, sellers are practically all they have.
Dem_Z: Unfortunately, I've yet to find a Lancer from the Phillipines with AWD, it doesn't seem to be an option there either.
Petey: I looked under the rear-end today, and I think you may be right, again, I wanna see the underside of an AWD Cedia and or Evo, to compare and get ideas.
I think if it can be done the most reliable and feasible way in the end would be to import the required components from an AWD Cedia the problem lies in price and finding a motor/tranny combo that will work with the Lancer's engine bay, left hand drive, and AWD. Obviously I could import the engine, tranny and drivetrain from an AWD Cedia, but then I'd be stepping down to a 1.6 liter engine, and I doubt there's any US aftermarket for the 4G15. I still haven't been able to track down any good info on the '03 cedia's with AWD, and what engine/trannies they were equipped with.
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From: TB, FL
This is the harsh reality.
No, you're not. There isn't a serious thought in such statement. This topic is beyond beating a dead horse to the point of being a ghastly bloody spot on the ground.
People/newbies have a false sense of naivety of "I can do anything", and their reading comprehension is bordering on deplorable.
Mixing engine up and bad reading comprehension.
It's a lot more easier using Evo 4+ motors than using Evo 1-3 or DSM, because the latter has a lot more fabrication and effort.
No one ever said that, except probably from real Evo owners. Go blame the right people.
Besides, how much is too much? Doing a swap more than 80% value of your car after 1 year of depreciation?
Again, real Evo owners say these things.
Few attempts using DSM motor, and ALL FAILED but one . . . he had corporate backing. He didn't even take a year of racing before scraping the project!
Mixing and matching a platoon of engines.
The Cedia in the Pacific rim countries are using Evo 4+ motors while the Japanese ones are most likely using the 4g94T engine with direct injection + turbo similar to the Pajerios.
Good luck on the language barrier.
Also, They buy up so much of the true (5g mirage) 4g93T from Japan that it is virtually scare, costing similar to Evo 4 motors. Hell, Aussie and NZ scrap yards can't afford to buy them at a cost effective rate. Otherwise, miragers would have raided such motor can competed with American DSM'ers and fight for speed rights against PR-cians.
Why go that route if you have already bought a front clip?
Too front heavy for a mirage, might not for a lancer since it +200 lbs than a mirage.
Mixing and matching engines.
If using the modern G64 motor, you'll still have to source an Evo 4+ block and parts.
I would like to see someone go up to a wrecker with a dead Evo. "I'll buy the Evo short block for a mere 200 bucks." He'll probably say "Go take a hike, buddy."
If you want a real answer: talk to TAD Motorsports. They are one of the original Evo swappers in a mirage during the late 90's. They either say buzz off or quote a crazy price.
From experience from my fellow miragers, MOST of them failed on their Evo swap because the the lack of time, effort, and practicality. The few that have succeeded, because they have the dough . . . also, they don't come back to the board, knowing they will be email BOMBED by newbies.
Using DSM motor = tons of fabbing. In the end, it's a wash, costing about the same as getting an Evo 4+ front clip + swap, bordering near 10 grand if going AWD.
It's the same cost effectiveness amongst Nissan 240 owners. Which is cost effective, swapping a CA, SR, or RB swap? The RB20 is too heavy for any real power against a CA or SR.
I am here to seriously discuss the thoughts and opinions on building an all wheel drive lancer, possibly with the 4G63 engine in it.
1) it won't work(no explanation)
2) it won't fit(engine bay too small, mounts need fabricated, no FWD tranny for the 4G63, Evo AWD won't fit in Lancer's skinny chasis)
It's a lot more easier using Evo 4+ motors than using Evo 1-3 or DSM, because the latter has a lot more fabrication and effort.
3) it costs too much(more than a new evo, which I highly doubt)
Besides, how much is too much? Doing a swap more than 80% value of your car after 1 year of depreciation?
4) buy an evo(that's understandable, except that I don't want one, I like the look of a non-evo lancer better)
it's never been accomplished, so no one knows if it will work or not
In the phillipines they have the Lancer 2.0 GT, it is a Cedia chasis with a 4G63 engine and FWD automatic tranny(Invecs II), assuming one could source factory parts from there, we could logically fit a 4G63 in our cars. Wheelbase is the same, axels should be the same. In Japan, I remember researching last year and finding AWD Lancer Cedias from the factory,
The Cedia in the Pacific rim countries are using Evo 4+ motors while the Japanese ones are most likely using the 4g94T engine with direct injection + turbo similar to the Pajerios.
Import parts from the Phillipines
Also, They buy up so much of the true (5g mirage) 4g93T from Japan that it is virtually scare, costing similar to Evo 4 motors. Hell, Aussie and NZ scrap yards can't afford to buy them at a cost effective rate. Otherwise, miragers would have raided such motor can competed with American DSM'ers and fight for speed rights against PR-cians.
Get parts from an Eclipse GSX
6A12 engine
The "Almost, but not quite" option.
If using the modern G64 motor, you'll still have to source an Evo 4+ block and parts.
I would like to see someone go up to a wrecker with a dead Evo. "I'll buy the Evo short block for a mere 200 bucks." He'll probably say "Go take a hike, buddy."
If you want a real answer: talk to TAD Motorsports. They are one of the original Evo swappers in a mirage during the late 90's. They either say buzz off or quote a crazy price.
From experience from my fellow miragers, MOST of them failed on their Evo swap because the the lack of time, effort, and practicality. The few that have succeeded, because they have the dough . . . also, they don't come back to the board, knowing they will be email BOMBED by newbies.
Using DSM motor = tons of fabbing. In the end, it's a wash, costing about the same as getting an Evo 4+ front clip + swap, bordering near 10 grand if going AWD.
It's the same cost effectiveness amongst Nissan 240 owners. Which is cost effective, swapping a CA, SR, or RB swap? The RB20 is too heavy for any real power against a CA or SR.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: TB, FL
We already know that.
4g mirage way = hundreds of them all across the world (using DSM, VR4, or Evo 1-3)
5g mirage way = probably less than 3 dozen around the world, including the US. (using Evo 4+)
Lancer = probably a handful. (using Evo 4+)
As for using DSM motors for 5g mirage or lancer, ALLl have failed but ONE, and he had corporate money!!!!!!!!!! He is Sean Glazer of Extreme Motorsports.
1 problem: +90% of those that reached the promiseland, they DON'T come back. Why is that? They probably don't want to be email bombed or hedge their bet on cost.
Like I have said in the past, call or email TAD Motorsports in Chi-Town or RRE/RRM + BOE. If not, flood the email box to the Canadian who had done the Evo swap. There's another guiy who is doing it too, far longer. Hobie and the OG Mods + ADMs should know him - one of the first turbo lancer on the board. I can't remember his alias.
4g mirage way = hundreds of them all across the world (using DSM, VR4, or Evo 1-3)
5g mirage way = probably less than 3 dozen around the world, including the US. (using Evo 4+)
Lancer = probably a handful. (using Evo 4+)
As for using DSM motors for 5g mirage or lancer, ALLl have failed but ONE, and he had corporate money!!!!!!!!!! He is Sean Glazer of Extreme Motorsports.
1 problem: +90% of those that reached the promiseland, they DON'T come back. Why is that? They probably don't want to be email bombed or hedge their bet on cost.
Like I have said in the past, call or email TAD Motorsports in Chi-Town or RRE/RRM + BOE. If not, flood the email box to the Canadian who had done the Evo swap. There's another guiy who is doing it too, far longer. Hobie and the OG Mods + ADMs should know him - one of the first turbo lancer on the board. I can't remember his alias.
Last edited by bahamut; Feb 26, 2007 at 04:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 115
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From: Springfield, MO
Ok, the biggest and most pertinent problem I've found, transmission. I simply cannot track down a tranny that's both AWD and bolts to an accessible and swappable motor. I'd hoped to find one that'd work for the 4G94, no luck. To swap engine, tranny, and drivetrain components, well, that's getting outta my price range for a while now. I'm gonna go ahead and do some more traditional mods to the car, and keep looking for info. Maybe once I get some of my current situation(I'd rather not go into it, but it involves people trying guilt me into letting them live at my place, too much stress to deal with stressing over a car right now), I'll be able to figure out something. In the meantime, interested people can continue to debate this topic if they feel so inclined, but I'm gonna drop out of it to relax and do things that I don't have to practically write a book to figure out.
Either:
1. Just do a 6A12 swap... You want front heavy since your FWD anyway. It helps with the launches... Talk to RPW, and close the thread. It's became a repeat.
2. Wait for the new lancers with AWD comming to america, buy that.
1. Just do a 6A12 swap... You want front heavy since your FWD anyway. It helps with the launches... Talk to RPW, and close the thread. It's became a repeat.
2. Wait for the new lancers with AWD comming to america, buy that.
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From: TB, FL
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Western Australia
ok from what i have studied there is only one transmission mount that has to be fabricated... the rocker cover side
thought i haven't personally measured it up a g69 mount might fit up preventing custom mounts
now the its not very hard to do this conversion just takes a bit of engineering.
what most of you don't know is that the evo gearbox is very similar to the reg lancer box a f5m42 obviously different ratios and the awd transfer case has been adopted to the reg lancer gearbox. (wheter it bolts to the gearbox or not i don't know) though most people just lock the centre diff which makes it easier
thought i haven't personally measured it up a g69 mount might fit up preventing custom mounts
now the its not very hard to do this conversion just takes a bit of engineering.
what most of you don't know is that the evo gearbox is very similar to the reg lancer box a f5m42 obviously different ratios and the awd transfer case has been adopted to the reg lancer gearbox. (wheter it bolts to the gearbox or not i don't know) though most people just lock the centre diff which makes it easier
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From: Jackson, CA (NorCal, Sacramento)
^^^thats along the lines of what i was thinking about the gearbox. i knew it was very similar and i think the main difference was the bell housing and the transfer case.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Kunsan AB, Republic of Korea
To add my 2 cents, try looking outside the Mitsu box. For example, a (now) common swap for my platform (3g Eclipse RS/GS) is to take an Evo head and mate it to the 4G64 (bolts right up giving us a DOHC engine, and obviously takes other peripheral parts as well, but it is considered a bolt-on modification). Back to my original comment, another option for us (or any 4G64 owner I'd imagine) is to use a head from a 2001-2005 Kia Optima. While the first time I heard this I thought KIA???!!!, but, it too bolts right up...it'll even accept Evo internals! A couple differences exist between an Evo head and an Optima head exist (Optima has a lower compression ratio), but they balance out depending on what you're after.
My point is, there may be a platform other than Mitsu that parts can be sourced from. Has anyone looked into the use of the 4G63, 4G64, 4G94, etc. platform in other makes? Maybe there's a Kia or Hyundai or whatever out there with an AWD tranny that will work for you. I haven't looked into this, but I don't have a Lancer platform.
As for all the people saying "buy an Evo"...how many Evo owners on here still have a stock Evo? Those that don't modified it because the factory didn't make the car the way YOU wanted it. This is the same case for the OP of this thread, as it is for me. I have yet to own a car that I was pleased with from the factory...and I've owned a lot! For some of us it is more than just having the cool car to own. For some of us this is our hobby. I don't care if I spend 3 times what my car is worth to Kelly Blue Book or NADA or anyone else. If I can build my car in a way that makes ME happy, that's all that matters. If I wind up spending a few extra grand over the long run because I didn't get it right the first time, that's what a hobby is all about...trial and error, and getting better at it.
I think the original intent of this post was to compile the facts about what does work and what doesn't with regards to attempting to make a Lancer AWD. It started out good, but turned into a bashing contest on inginuity. While freedom of speech is great, I just don't see the point to posts saying "I don't have time to read this" or "this is pointless"...then don't post in this thread! Move on to one you do have time for or you find a point in, and leave ones like these to those of us who are into the hobby of modifying cars ourselves (instead of paying a shop to do it) and those of us who also like to "what-if" things to death...if you don't then just pass on by! It's not that difficult of a concept.
One last comment that might help many of you out. In conversation at the hooch the other night I got some great info from a guy who was stationed in Japan. Apparently, parts (and cars) are much cheaper in Japan than we're led to believe here. For instance, a friend of his bought a Supra that had been tricked out for drifting, that also had a custom induction set-up which cost over $1200 alone...he got the car for $450 to cover the storage fees a shop had charged the owner. The guy he bought it from had simply moved on to a different car. I guess many people there go through cars pretty quickly and deals are a dime a dozen. It's the importers that rape you for the stuff. So, if you can, hook up with someone in the military and see if they can contact someone stationed in Japan who can get you parts for a fair price...I'm not saying everyone in the military could help you out, but you might find some...
My point is, there may be a platform other than Mitsu that parts can be sourced from. Has anyone looked into the use of the 4G63, 4G64, 4G94, etc. platform in other makes? Maybe there's a Kia or Hyundai or whatever out there with an AWD tranny that will work for you. I haven't looked into this, but I don't have a Lancer platform.
As for all the people saying "buy an Evo"...how many Evo owners on here still have a stock Evo? Those that don't modified it because the factory didn't make the car the way YOU wanted it. This is the same case for the OP of this thread, as it is for me. I have yet to own a car that I was pleased with from the factory...and I've owned a lot! For some of us it is more than just having the cool car to own. For some of us this is our hobby. I don't care if I spend 3 times what my car is worth to Kelly Blue Book or NADA or anyone else. If I can build my car in a way that makes ME happy, that's all that matters. If I wind up spending a few extra grand over the long run because I didn't get it right the first time, that's what a hobby is all about...trial and error, and getting better at it.
I think the original intent of this post was to compile the facts about what does work and what doesn't with regards to attempting to make a Lancer AWD. It started out good, but turned into a bashing contest on inginuity. While freedom of speech is great, I just don't see the point to posts saying "I don't have time to read this" or "this is pointless"...then don't post in this thread! Move on to one you do have time for or you find a point in, and leave ones like these to those of us who are into the hobby of modifying cars ourselves (instead of paying a shop to do it) and those of us who also like to "what-if" things to death...if you don't then just pass on by! It's not that difficult of a concept.
One last comment that might help many of you out. In conversation at the hooch the other night I got some great info from a guy who was stationed in Japan. Apparently, parts (and cars) are much cheaper in Japan than we're led to believe here. For instance, a friend of his bought a Supra that had been tricked out for drifting, that also had a custom induction set-up which cost over $1200 alone...he got the car for $450 to cover the storage fees a shop had charged the owner. The guy he bought it from had simply moved on to a different car. I guess many people there go through cars pretty quickly and deals are a dime a dozen. It's the importers that rape you for the stuff. So, if you can, hook up with someone in the military and see if they can contact someone stationed in Japan who can get you parts for a fair price...I'm not saying everyone in the military could help you out, but you might find some...
Last edited by kidney_bean; Mar 10, 2007 at 04:37 AM.
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From: Kunsan AB, Republic of Korea
I guess you didn't get the point of his thread...he wasn't looking for cheaper. He was looking to do something different that suited his desires. He didn't want an Evo. I don't mean to sound harsh (that's not my intent), but from your post it appears that you either didn't read the whole thread, or just disregarded the idea behind it.