Ok, I'm not sitting here saying I bought and Evo engine and drivetrain to put in my lancer. I'm not here saying I would, or that I could afford it, or that I think it'd work. I am here to seriously discuss the thoughts and opinions on building an all wheel drive lancer, possibly with the 4G63 engine in it. I don't wanna here that it's not worth it, that's for me to decide. I don't wanna here it costs to much, I don't care. I don't think I can do this in a weekend. I doubt I have the knowhow to do it at all. I want to seriously research and discuss the possibility, and try to find a concrete answer as to whether this can be done at all, through any means and if so how. I have some hypothesis' to offer, many of which might not work, but I've never heard them expressed before, so I can't say. I don't think this deserves to be thrown in the noob thread, I've searched the heck out of this, but cannot find anything conclusive, simply:
1) it won't work(no explanation)
2) it won't fit(engine bay too small, mounts need fabricated, no FWD tranny for the 4G63, Evo AWD won't fit in Lancer's skinny chasis)
3) it costs too much(more than a new evo, which I highly doubt)
4) buy an evo(that's understandable, except that I don't want one, I like the look of a non-evo lancer better)
5) it's gay(How does doing something that's never been done determine you to be a homosexual, can making a car more than it was meant to be only be accomplished by homosexuals?)

My opinions are this:
1) it's never been accomplished, so no one knows if it will work or not
2) In the phillipines they have the Lancer 2.0 GT, it is a Cedia chasis with a 4G63 engine and FWD automatic tranny(Invecs II), assuming one could source factory parts from there, we could logically fit a 4G63 in our cars. Wheelbase is the same, axels should be the same. In Japan, I remember researching last year and finding AWD Lancer Cedias from the factory, granted their AWD would probably not fit in our cars to do the need for parts to be repositioned to fit the left hand drive car. It is possible that other countries with left hand drive have the AWD Lancer, I still need to research.
3) I really can't see how doing just the engine swap(especially if the stuff off the 2.0 GT can cross over) can cost more than the $29,774 which is the cheapest I can buy an Evolution IX RS from a dealership for. Not to mention the sentimental value of a car that you built yourself and is unique in your town(or in this case country) would go a long ways for some people.
4) As I said, I don't want an evo, I mean they're faster, handle better and are cool as heck, but I still prefer the look of the '03 Lancer, maybe with the evo VII bumper and hood, but the slimmer look is cooler to me.
5) It's gay? Seriously people, what kind of answer is that? That doesn't help at all.

Lastly, I have some hypothesis for how one might go about this. I'll start with the 4G63 swap, and hopefully some people can give me some reasons they won't work, or even better through discussion we might be able to find a way this will work.
Plan #1) Import parts from the Phillipines. Over there, the Lancer 2.0 GT has a naturally aspirated 4G63 engine, it's not as much power as an Evolution, but being the same engine really expands our aftermarket options. I need to research it, but it should be possible, to get motor mounts for a Lancer 2.0 GT imported, as well as pretty much anything else needed to make the engine physically fit in the car. After that, we need an ECU, the 2.0 GT has one, expensive as heck I know, but it's a start. We also need a tranny, since I highly doubt the 2.0 GT uses the same Invecs II tranny the 4G94 does. If you don't mind going auto, you could save up the cash and import the tranny as well. Anything I'm missing? I know the cost is a bit extreme on this plan, but it should work, and I've yet to see a "cheap" engine swap anywhere(not including those that are cheap "in comparison" to this one).

Plan #2) Get parts from an Eclipse GSX. No importing here, which drops the price a bit. But availibility is poor, and therefore parts will still be expensive to find. I've heard some people say that this swap would be easier than using an Evolution engine. This swap would suffer the same problems as the evo swap in that you'd need motor mounts that work with both the engine and tranny. I still feel that sourcing these from OEM Lancer 2.0 GT parts and importing them will be the best overall method, as you will get a part built for the job, that has been tested and proven reliable over a custom fabrication that might be good, might not. There may be other avenues there I don't know about. Still problems finding a tanny that will both bolt up and fit under the hood. This car is also AWD, so it is theoretically possible to transplant it's drivetrain entirely into a Lancer, as the wheelbase is similiar, though some custom work and fabrication would likely be required, but it would be less than with an Evolution swap.

Plan #3) Import all parts needed from Japan. Wost option for cost and fabrication requirements, this likely would cost more than an Evolution, due to shipping fees and especially if you go for AWD. I don't expect this plan to succeed, simply because of the astronomical price and the fact that so few parts would be sourceable from the US as opposed to plans #1 and #2.

Plan #4) The "Almost, but not quite" option. the 4G64 engine found in the 2000-2005 Eclipse RS, as well as many other cars, is pretty much a 4G63 bored to 2.4 Liters and I think with a longer stroke. I've heard of one succesful swap with this engine into a Lancer, so it can be done. I've also heard of people at least attempting to convert the engine to as close to a 4G63 as possible, so there's hope there. To put it simply, this plan works because it's been done, dunno about the difficulty, but the end result is the desired more powerful engine in a US Lancer body.

Ok, so those are the paths I will be researching, I woud appreciate serious input both arguing for and against any of these plans. I think that getting a quick "yes" or "no" answer to something is all well and good, but you can't give a "yes" or "no" to something that has not been proven past a "maybe".

 

so you're really just "thinking out loud" and don't care what we have to say... Um, textpad next time

anyway, a few things to keep in mind.
Let's say you do shoehorn the g63 in there and you manage to get a tranny somewhere under the car, too. You need to take a look at clearances. Can you still close the hood? how much room do you have under the car? What about all the "little things" like power steering, etc.?

What about axles? I recall that one issue with a similar idea is that the axels that fit the tranny they were discussing were too long and the tires would stick out of the wells about an inch, or more. Might be fine if you're in an unlimited class for racing but there are laws about that kind of thing on the streets.
The driveshaft to the rear will cause problems, too. There's the crossmember at the front that only has enough room for the exhaust. It's a pretty sturdy item. Then there's the fuel tank and the rest of the undershell. you maybe could fabricate a channel, but damn.
Rigging the rear dampers to the axles might be an issue, I don't know. What about attaching the control arms to the frame? Then there's the same issue as the front, axle length.

someone did something similar to their Mirage (AWD plus engine swap). I'm sure someone else will post the link or you can search for it. It's doable.

Was that G64 into a Lancer or into a Mirage? That was a tiiiiight fit, IIRC. I remember something about the front frame being closer to the firewall on the Lancer, removing a very needed inch or so.... but I could be wrong.

 

I think i read one post from guy over sea, who did swap to a 04+ model lancer~ it wasn't AWD swap but he did a engine swap. and it did run but it costed him around $10,000 plus no car for 6 month. Nothing is impossible, it's just that it is not worth doing it!!!!

 

That dude was Canadian and he never really said how much it was. I believe someone called the shop and they said it was more than CAN$10K to have it done. It was a FWD 4G63 from an Evo V (someone correct that) and they effectively milled a new transmission for him because nothing really fit. It did take him over 6 months to have to done, but I'm still a skeptic because I haven't seen him around since he did it. Worse, his WHP was lower than a stage 2 RRM turbo (ouch!). I'd be on here weekly talkin crazy trash about my lap times over the previous weekend if I did some crazy engine swap

 

I care what you have to say, so long as it's an actual answer with reasoning and logic as well as facts, rather than "You can't afford it" or "It's gay" or any other one line reply that says no without saying why not.
The two of you that have replied so far have actually given information that implies that you both thought, and read my post before answering, which is what I want, an actual discussion on the topic. The G64 swap was on a Lancer, I'll try to dig up a link, but the info was posted on EvoM once. I believe the engine was from a Stratus coupe, but not certain.

As for weather the G63 will physically fit, like I said, the Lancer 2.0 GT has it, and frame/engine bay/etc.. wise it is a regular Lancer from what I can tell, FWD with a tranny that fits the G63. Granted it's auto, but I think Invecs II would be kinda cool if I could put the kinds of power evolutions can get to it. Overall, I think if a G63 with an auto tranny can fit in a Lancer that seems to have the exact same dimensions underhood as ours, it seems possible if we can finda 5-speed or get that auto tranny.
As for the thing about being worth it or not, I think that's entirely up to who's doing it to their car. If I felt that putting a 6" lift on my car and running off road tires was the way to go, I probably wouldn't let you talk me out of it, but that's not really a good example cause I'd never do that.

As for axels, with the GSX plan, I've found that the GSX actually has a narrower wheelbase than a Lancer, so the Axels would need lengthened if anything.
But really, I kinda got tired of 90% of the threads on here being about "that" people can't do this or that, so I wanted to discuss something that's never had a definate yes or no put to it. Maybe through this someone will figure out how to get this swap right, as I've heard a few have tried and failed. Personally I don't have the cash to do this, but I would like to learn about it so that in the future I might be able to. Especially the AWD part, cause I dunno if it can be done, but if so I want it, and I want it on my '03 ES, not on an '08 ralliart or an evoluton. On a final note, I also do realize that I'll need a lot more that 100hp to be feasible if I ever can do an AWD swap.

BTW, info and specs on the Lancer 2.0 GT which as far as I can tell is just a Lancer with a 4G63 from the factory, availible in the Phillipines. Lancer 2.0 GT
I should also note that the 4G63 in that car doesn't seem to put out all that much power, but it's the fact that it is compatible with practically anything for an evolution that you can fit under the hood that makes it interesting to me.

 

too long of posts for me to read

if you can weld and are very smart you get do it all for about $5,000. to have someone else do it...you can do it for like $15,000.

 

Some interesting bits of info, I've been looking at Mitsubishi's japanese site, now I cannot read japanese nor do I have language support downloaded, but they do have a few things in english.
1) The Lancer Cedia with all wheel drive (Specifically MX-E, ME-E Navi, and MX-E Touring), all presently use the 4G15 engine, invecs III CVT, and put out approximately 90 PS, putting it at roughly the same hp as our lancers as the wheels.
2) It would seem that our Lancer's are based off the MX-E Business Package, which shares the same features for the most part, such as: Same vent/clock/hazard light peice as our Lancers, Us-style mechanical HVAC, and essentially all the same components aside from integrated rear headrests and a 4G15 engine with Invecs III CVT
3) Ralliarts also have the US-style vent/clock/hazard light, are surprisingly only availible in FWD, are the only lancers shown to have the OZ/Ralliart style gauge cluster, have cooler seats, a really cool shifter for the auto(Invecs II for some reason, most definately sport mode), and uses a 4G93 GDI with the Invecs II auto.
Why does any of this matter? Well, it lets us know that for the 2007 year at least, you don't get a AWD lancer with a manual, though I"ve heard good things about the Inecs III CVT. It lets us know that contrary to what I and other people in the past had assumed, our stock engine probably can put out sufficient power to be AWD, and might(emphasis on might, still researching) be able to fit a japanese AWD tranny. It also makes me wonder about just how good or bad our auto tranny is, being as it's standard and I think the only tranny on japanese Ralliarts.

 

These threads have popped up about once every month in the 5+ years Ive been here and still make me laugh each time.

Simply put, yes you can re-invent the wheel. But why bother???

I traded my OZ in on an Evo when I had the money, and I havent looked back since. The OZ was a great car, but regardless of how much is thrown at it the sum of its parts will not match an Evo. Things like a wider track, a much more advanced suspension (Im talking geometry here, not just coilovers; I wont even get into the aluminum subframe), hundreds of thousands of spot welds to increase stiffness, complex awd system, brake distribution control, aluminum body panels to offset drivetrain weight, etc cannot be addressed in the regular Lancer without major money and time. Do not take this as an attempt to offend, rather just educate.

 

i also lead to believe u have to change the fuel tank to allow for rear diff...

 

I do take your post to educate, as you listed facts and explained your answer, thank you. I don't mind if it makes you laugh, but keep in mind I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, nor am I trying to make the Lancer into an Evo, I'm adressing the possiblities of making the US Spec Lancer match the Phillipine Lancer 2.0 GT and the JDM Lancer Cedia's with AWD, not even at the same time neccisarily. I'm not saying I want my car to have an Evo engine and AWD. I do want AWD, and would really rather have that than an Evo engine. Oh and just to correct on a small point, "Hundreds of thousands of spot welds" is more in the ballpark of 250-300, I was actually thinking about researching exactly how many, where, and which(if any) can be applied to our lancer after factory rollout and be beneficial.

I'm pretty sure you're right about the fuel tank, Mitsu's Japanese site shows that all their AWD Lancers have a 48 liter tank while FWD models have a 50 liter tank.
I could possibly get the tank cut and welded, but for safety's sake I'd rather try to get ahold of a smaller tank, and 2 liter's less won't kill me. It seems that all AWD Lancers(at least in the 2007 lineup) use the 4G15 engine and Invecs III CVT, but I dunno if that tranny would even line up to a 4G94 block, did the 4G15 come out in any US cars?
To answer myself, yes. The 4G15 was seen in the 1993+ Mirage(mostly coupe). Now I just need to figure out if it's even possible to swap trannies with a 4G15's Invecs III CVT, not to mention figure out everything else, lol.

 

I dont care to read everything you wrote, but the eclipse gsx 4g63 will not fit due to the transmission is on the other side of the motor

 

what you have to realize is that the basic body of the lancer and the evolution is nearly identical so the engine and tranny would fit in the bay. you would have to modify the mounts and im sure you could get the evolution cross member to fit. and even if you got the g63 in there, you could just use that tranny and not connect the driveshaft. it will function like a fwd tranny. i also believe the trannys are very similar in that the bell housing is the main difference along with the differential. the lancer does have the tunnel for the drivetrain as well. and the gas tank issue could be solved by using an evolution gas tank or simply using a trunk mounted tank. custom axles could be made for un-astronomical rates. i think the hardest part would be removing the piece that the rear control arms mount to and figuring out what could be used there. as for the ecu, you could just use the stock one from whichever engine youre using because you will have to use that harness as well, or you could always go standalone.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ot+welds+doors

7th Post, by blacksheepdj, refering to an FAQ by Lan Evo. 200 spot welds in the doors alone. Sorry, but Im not wrong. Perhaps you should research where they all are before you try to correct me. Also, you can add those welds after the car is made. Do you have any idea how much it costs to strip a car clean and pay a laborer to do those welds?

So you want an awd Lancer, but not the power of the Evo? Why exactly?

 

well i didn't read most of that. But just to confirm:

A mirage DID do an Evo AWD swap
and an 04 lancer DID do a 4g63 swap

the AWD cost around $10k and the engine swap also cost around $10k. So you would be looking at around $20k to get AWD and an Evo engine (non turbo'd)
either way TONNES of work, lots of custom fabrication. VERY VERY VERY high chance things could fall apart while you're driving it. Expect a lot of problems. And if you turbo it, expect even more. Just something to think about.
But like i said, both things seperately have been accomplished in similar situations to yours

 

My apologies, I have done research, and never found any information to imply that there are more than 300 added welds over the entirety of the car. You information doesn't exactly defeat my claim of 250-300 welds because it says 200 in the doors, saying nothing of how many welds were done to the rest of the car. The side area of the Lancer is it's weakest point really, as it gets poor side impact ratings in almost every model year. It would make perfect sense for there to be 200 welds to the doors and 50-100 welds to the rest of the frame. I'm not going t say your wrong, but "hundreds of thousands" seems way out of proportion, I'll have to start posting sources on my information. I'd be willing to believe 500, heck even 1000 spot welds, but I couldn't believe hundreds of throusands without definate evidence.

I'm really enjoying this discussion, I've already learned a lot that I have never seen show up on any of the other conversion threads. Thanks for the input thus far everyone.

EDIT: And about not wanting the power of an evo. My car is a daily driver, and I originally did want to turbo it and build it to 300+ hp, but reading up and researching here and there I came to the obvious realization that the car would be kinda annoying to drive with that much power on a daily commute or in the winter, yada yada. I'm much more interested in a car that's sporty and handles the best it possibly can as opposed to one that is friggin fast but handles like crap. If I wanted "The power of an Evo" I'd have bought a muscle car and said "done". I know evo's will still handle better than me, but I don't need that kinda power, maybe if I did do the AWD swap, I'd begin to feel a need for it, but not now, and the more I think about it, the less I want a 5-spd. It's weird, I know, but like I said, I'm not out to turn my lancer into an Evo.

EDIT #2: Our own site has a feature describing some of the structural reinforcement of the 2003 Lancer evolution, which seems particularly useful considering I drive an '03. According to this feature, the majority of reinforcement, over previous evolutions models I'd assume, was simply heavier duty metal and added crossmembers, which obviously must be welded in place. approximately 9 strategic welds are mentioned, but this doesn't help my claim as I'd expect this to be 9 more than the previous evolution model, not 9 more than a USDM lancer. I have yet to find any info that lists the exact number of welds over a normal lancer, so I thnk I'll just drop that subject.

On the subject of the engine swap, I'm personally not going to attempt this, I do want to learn about it though. I would love to try the AWD swap as soon as I can figure out a good way to do it, and can start aquiring parts(in other words don't hold your breath on it, but someday)