2002-2006 Lancer Super FAQ
write your gear ratio, adjust fuel pressure minimally without changing bolt ons and turn off rev limiter. Can be done with a scan tool to apply a calc.value of shift points and be sure you data log so you dont throw a piston through the hood (or bonnet).
Note that RPM in a different country is will always be higher due to European (just an example, not sure of Asian motor restrictions) they produce 1999cc or 2L engine that rev higher to attain horsepower. Iv have my limiter turned off for "race or dyno conditions" just know what you block is capable of and obviously dont dump limiter unless you want to take out that loan for a new EVO. Could even do a race day setup (open intake and straight pipe just to behind center console) Adjust you volumetric efficiency(Huge factor people ignore tuning after exhaust and intake bolt ons. Analogy would be you cant **** more than you can eat. same reason people bolt the **** on their car and dont adjust vol eff. you get that popping on deceleration (Atmospheric pressure over comes the over size pipes and huge intake system and thus the "cant ****" part comes in to play. If you cant flow enough air you intake to efficiently push exhaust gas is like pushing hot air out of exhaust but too much room in the pipes will (draw in colder ambient air back to the manifold then pop pop pop) Molecular diffusion as in area of high concentration will go to area of low concentration. Heat highly concentrated wants out of intake manu and cold air wants in, thus you have robbed your low end "power" but increased high end power linearly with the more RPM. Higher RPM higher HP dyno. I think you said that but either way its exactly the point.
This applies the same way once you remove a revlimiter (via laptop of course). And there you go you gained horsepower by cutting pipe and a few small adjustments to the ecu.
Not trying to sound like a smartass but I legitimatly dont know the difference between a SOHC N/A 4g94 aside that its 1.8L typically and the intake manifold is arguably more efficient the the 4g94. Which I understood was the same block just bored to a 2L. Which is why the turbo versions of a 4g93 can sustain..rather be boosted without a tight butt hole than a 4g94 due to more aluminum than the less thick bored to a 2L.
Im here to learn cause if I knew it all Id be building motors for a living instead of working in a fked up healthcare system.
Note that RPM in a different country is will always be higher due to European (just an example, not sure of Asian motor restrictions) they produce 1999cc or 2L engine that rev higher to attain horsepower. Iv have my limiter turned off for "race or dyno conditions" just know what you block is capable of and obviously dont dump limiter unless you want to take out that loan for a new EVO. Could even do a race day setup (open intake and straight pipe just to behind center console) Adjust you volumetric efficiency(Huge factor people ignore tuning after exhaust and intake bolt ons. Analogy would be you cant **** more than you can eat. same reason people bolt the **** on their car and dont adjust vol eff. you get that popping on deceleration (Atmospheric pressure over comes the over size pipes and huge intake system and thus the "cant ****" part comes in to play. If you cant flow enough air you intake to efficiently push exhaust gas is like pushing hot air out of exhaust but too much room in the pipes will (draw in colder ambient air back to the manifold then pop pop pop) Molecular diffusion as in area of high concentration will go to area of low concentration. Heat highly concentrated wants out of intake manu and cold air wants in, thus you have robbed your low end "power" but increased high end power linearly with the more RPM. Higher RPM higher HP dyno. I think you said that but either way its exactly the point.
This applies the same way once you remove a revlimiter (via laptop of course). And there you go you gained horsepower by cutting pipe and a few small adjustments to the ecu.
Not trying to sound like a smartass but I legitimatly dont know the difference between a SOHC N/A 4g94 aside that its 1.8L typically and the intake manifold is arguably more efficient the the 4g94. Which I understood was the same block just bored to a 2L. Which is why the turbo versions of a 4g93 can sustain..rather be boosted without a tight butt hole than a 4g94 due to more aluminum than the less thick bored to a 2L.
Im here to learn cause if I knew it all Id be building motors for a living instead of working in a fked up healthcare system.
That's 155 WHP, and there's no indication what base is so we have no idea what the gain over stock was. It's also a different engine. The 4G93 has some key differences, like the ability to rev higher than the 4G94. Notice how that 155 WHP is at a high RPM (it looks like it's above 7000 RPM).
I dont always hit rev limit.....
But when I do I wear steal armor, full face helmet, and have a open credit card or pre-approved loan.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 15,634
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From: Canuckistan
write your gear ratio, adjust fuel pressure minimally without changing bolt ons and turn off rev limiter. Can be done with a scan tool to apply a calc.value of shift points and be sure you data log so you dont throw a piston through the hood (or bonnet).
Note that RPM in a different country is will always be higher due to European (just an example, not sure of Asian motor restrictions) they produce 1999cc or 2L engine that rev higher to attain horsepower. Iv have my limiter turned off for "race or dyno conditions" just know what you block is capable of and obviously dont dump limiter unless you want to take out that loan for a new EVO. Could even do a race day setup (open intake and straight pipe just to behind center console) Adjust you volumetric efficiency(Huge factor people ignore tuning after exhaust and intake bolt ons. Analogy would be you cant **** more than you can eat. same reason people bolt the **** on their car and dont adjust vol eff. you get that popping on deceleration (Atmospheric pressure over comes the over size pipes and huge intake system and thus the "cant ****" part comes in to play. If you cant flow enough air you intake to efficiently push exhaust gas is like pushing hot air out of exhaust but too much room in the pipes will (draw in colder ambient air back to the manifold then pop pop pop) Molecular diffusion as in area of high concentration will go to area of low concentration. Heat highly concentrated wants out of intake manu and cold air wants in, thus you have robbed your low end "power" but increased high end power linearly with the more RPM. Higher RPM higher HP dyno. I think you said that but either way its exactly the point.
This applies the same way once you remove a revlimiter (via laptop of course). And there you go you gained horsepower by cutting pipe and a few small adjustments to the ecu.
Not trying to sound like a smartass but I legitimatly dont know the difference between a SOHC N/A 4g94 aside that its 1.8L typically and the intake manifold is arguably more efficient the the 4g94. Which I understood was the same block just bored to a 2L. Which is why the turbo versions of a 4g93 can sustain..rather be boosted without a tight butt hole than a 4g94 due to more aluminum than the less thick bored to a 2L.
Im here to learn cause if I knew it all Id be building motors for a living instead of working in a fked up healthcare system.
Note that RPM in a different country is will always be higher due to European (just an example, not sure of Asian motor restrictions) they produce 1999cc or 2L engine that rev higher to attain horsepower. Iv have my limiter turned off for "race or dyno conditions" just know what you block is capable of and obviously dont dump limiter unless you want to take out that loan for a new EVO. Could even do a race day setup (open intake and straight pipe just to behind center console) Adjust you volumetric efficiency(Huge factor people ignore tuning after exhaust and intake bolt ons. Analogy would be you cant **** more than you can eat. same reason people bolt the **** on their car and dont adjust vol eff. you get that popping on deceleration (Atmospheric pressure over comes the over size pipes and huge intake system and thus the "cant ****" part comes in to play. If you cant flow enough air you intake to efficiently push exhaust gas is like pushing hot air out of exhaust but too much room in the pipes will (draw in colder ambient air back to the manifold then pop pop pop) Molecular diffusion as in area of high concentration will go to area of low concentration. Heat highly concentrated wants out of intake manu and cold air wants in, thus you have robbed your low end "power" but increased high end power linearly with the more RPM. Higher RPM higher HP dyno. I think you said that but either way its exactly the point.
This applies the same way once you remove a revlimiter (via laptop of course). And there you go you gained horsepower by cutting pipe and a few small adjustments to the ecu.
Not trying to sound like a smartass but I legitimatly dont know the difference between a SOHC N/A 4g94 aside that its 1.8L typically and the intake manifold is arguably more efficient the the 4g94. Which I understood was the same block just bored to a 2L. Which is why the turbo versions of a 4g93 can sustain..rather be boosted without a tight butt hole than a 4g94 due to more aluminum than the less thick bored to a 2L.
Im here to learn cause if I knew it all Id be building motors for a living instead of working in a fked up healthcare system.
RPM has nothing to do with country of origin. 1000 revolutions per minute is the same in the US as it is in France.
How do you adjust your volumetric efficiency? You can't tune your volumetric efficiency, it isn't like cranking up boost or fiddling with your carburetor.
I have no idea what your talking about with molecular diffusion. That portion does not make any sense. Maybe try saying it again, differently?
The 4G94 is a 2.0 L SOHC engine. The 4G93 was a 1.8 L SOHC engine. It had slightly different parameters that allowed it to rev higher and take more boost, as you said.
If you want to learn more, there are lots of great books out there.
Sorry didnt really prof read that.
Illl keep it brief as its getting late but I will explain a bit better.
Yes RPM is the same measurment in any country. What I was trying to say was that Rev limiters in euro countries are higher than in the US. WHY? There is a tax in France for example, for each Cheval translated literally to horses or horsepower. So EUDM manufacturers of a Lancer ES will allow the rev limiter to "bounce" at a higher rate than USDM manufactured Lancer ES. This is due to the tax in France which many other European countries adopted as well (more commonly anything beyond a 2L engine will have a increased tax). This higher revving allows for more horsepower while maintaining the 2L benchmark (actually 1999cc). EUDM manufacturers realized you could get more HP from a higher revving car. USDM does this as a "safety" or DOT regulation (probably tied to some bs emission standard thats complete garbage) Kind of like when legislation was passed many years ago then revised pertaining to speed limits on hwy. If you remember or not, the US dropped the speed limit by 10 mph on hwys in hopes to reduce emissions (yes it did happen but realized It does nothing to reduce emissions because I could ride 55mph in 2nd gear and produce more CO2 and the genius behind this realized its not speed that creates CO2) sorry way
point is higher revving (obvious timing adjustments by manufacturer) has more potential for horsepower because think about a dyno reading from the US. max hp and tq are obtained right before you bounce rev limiter.
Next your vol eff can be altered. Its written in the raw data. Not a ROM or HEX file (EVOscan is great program and tactrix is a great company BUT there is a lot more that the software is not capable of doing or not yet capable). In a sense you are correct you cant change your volumetric eff, unless you know programming data and can command the ecu with a scan tool! "Scantool" -quotes are more fitting for this category. If you just bolt on a exhaust system to a 4g94 and a intake system you will effectively loose tq and hp at low end which is great if you commonly make a "run" from a roll at 50mph but more often than not, thats not usually the case. Summary: your vol eff can be adjusted via a very low voltage flash (5v to be exact and is a nerve racking experience since you cant put your car in the KEY on ENGINE off method flash with your laptop (which needs to be adjusted to use correct voltage) Note you do not want to eff this up!!!
Molecular diffusion-google it. Lets try this: Imagine you have a small room full of balloons just enough so one does not pop ( think of this as the manifold and exhaust system). Now imagine you have a door to that room full of baloons (theres some pressure because of HIGH CONCENTRATION of baloons). Then you open that door. What happens? The baloons will spill out of thee room into the space that has no pressure or a area of LOW CONCENTRATION)
Im trying my best to help readers follow this:
HEAT (room full of balloons)the balloons are exhaust gases HOT is highly concentrated and it biologically, mechanically, whatever helps you grasp the concept, wants to move to a area of low concentration. (Open area that you opened the door where these balloons are stored)This is your exhaust system after detonation into the exhaust system. The exhaust piping is a LOWER CONCENTRATED area as it is COLDER than temp at the header. The area the balloons fell into once you opened theoretical door
Hopefully this had made sense otherwise PM me or read again, try google. Its basic enviro science.
Now to add the final piece: hot gasses get cooler passing through exhaust sytem and out pipe to atmosphere which is VERY LOW CONCENTRATION. With oversized exhaust on DECELERATION you have just created negative pressure therby sucking cold air back into your exhaust system. Then you her the overly loud popping. (Just like pouring water over ice cubes). (Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
In summary: if you dont have enough air flowing in then you cant "****" more than you "eat" Meaning if your exhaust is too large of piping then your "****ting"expelling exhaust gases than you "eating" the air amount of air youre intaking. Back pressure is lost and youve lost low end power tq and hp. Contrary to popular belief from old school mechanics the more flow the better is not true for higher hp 4 cycl. applications. This is why you have to adjust your vol eff. to be sure youre going to **** (in ratio) what youre going to eat. Its possible but programming knowledge is required or you can plan on buying a entire new electronics system and most likely some sensors.
THIS APPLIES ONLY TO NATURALLY ASPIRATED APPLICATIONS!
Boost controllers and carbs analogy either makes no sense....unless youre customizing a useless system and boosting a carbed system and enjoy wasting money (Ill give you the benefit of the doubt since were speaking modern electrical systems considering ECU tuning is pointless with a carbed system). Unless you have a nearly "classic" car I dont understand your analogy as EFI and boost go hand in hand and a carbed turbo setup wouldnt use a boost controller. You would spool and dump all of your fuel from carbs then most likely stall. Supercharger sounds more efficient with a big block v8 with 4 holly 4 barrel carbs. Seriously where did u get the carb and boost analogy to compare to vol eff? Always willing to learn
Hopefully that makes more sense. It took me long enough to write but I hope someone can get something from it....
Illl keep it brief as its getting late but I will explain a bit better.
Yes RPM is the same measurment in any country. What I was trying to say was that Rev limiters in euro countries are higher than in the US. WHY? There is a tax in France for example, for each Cheval translated literally to horses or horsepower. So EUDM manufacturers of a Lancer ES will allow the rev limiter to "bounce" at a higher rate than USDM manufactured Lancer ES. This is due to the tax in France which many other European countries adopted as well (more commonly anything beyond a 2L engine will have a increased tax). This higher revving allows for more horsepower while maintaining the 2L benchmark (actually 1999cc). EUDM manufacturers realized you could get more HP from a higher revving car. USDM does this as a "safety" or DOT regulation (probably tied to some bs emission standard thats complete garbage) Kind of like when legislation was passed many years ago then revised pertaining to speed limits on hwy. If you remember or not, the US dropped the speed limit by 10 mph on hwys in hopes to reduce emissions (yes it did happen but realized It does nothing to reduce emissions because I could ride 55mph in 2nd gear and produce more CO2 and the genius behind this realized its not speed that creates CO2) sorry way
point is higher revving (obvious timing adjustments by manufacturer) has more potential for horsepower because think about a dyno reading from the US. max hp and tq are obtained right before you bounce rev limiter.
Next your vol eff can be altered. Its written in the raw data. Not a ROM or HEX file (EVOscan is great program and tactrix is a great company BUT there is a lot more that the software is not capable of doing or not yet capable). In a sense you are correct you cant change your volumetric eff, unless you know programming data and can command the ecu with a scan tool! "Scantool" -quotes are more fitting for this category. If you just bolt on a exhaust system to a 4g94 and a intake system you will effectively loose tq and hp at low end which is great if you commonly make a "run" from a roll at 50mph but more often than not, thats not usually the case. Summary: your vol eff can be adjusted via a very low voltage flash (5v to be exact and is a nerve racking experience since you cant put your car in the KEY on ENGINE off method flash with your laptop (which needs to be adjusted to use correct voltage) Note you do not want to eff this up!!!
Molecular diffusion-google it. Lets try this: Imagine you have a small room full of balloons just enough so one does not pop ( think of this as the manifold and exhaust system). Now imagine you have a door to that room full of baloons (theres some pressure because of HIGH CONCENTRATION of baloons). Then you open that door. What happens? The baloons will spill out of thee room into the space that has no pressure or a area of LOW CONCENTRATION)
Im trying my best to help readers follow this:
HEAT (room full of balloons)the balloons are exhaust gases HOT is highly concentrated and it biologically, mechanically, whatever helps you grasp the concept, wants to move to a area of low concentration. (Open area that you opened the door where these balloons are stored)This is your exhaust system after detonation into the exhaust system. The exhaust piping is a LOWER CONCENTRATED area as it is COLDER than temp at the header. The area the balloons fell into once you opened theoretical door
Hopefully this had made sense otherwise PM me or read again, try google. Its basic enviro science.
Now to add the final piece: hot gasses get cooler passing through exhaust sytem and out pipe to atmosphere which is VERY LOW CONCENTRATION. With oversized exhaust on DECELERATION you have just created negative pressure therby sucking cold air back into your exhaust system. Then you her the overly loud popping. (Just like pouring water over ice cubes). (Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
In summary: if you dont have enough air flowing in then you cant "****" more than you "eat" Meaning if your exhaust is too large of piping then your "****ting"expelling exhaust gases than you "eating" the air amount of air youre intaking. Back pressure is lost and youve lost low end power tq and hp. Contrary to popular belief from old school mechanics the more flow the better is not true for higher hp 4 cycl. applications. This is why you have to adjust your vol eff. to be sure youre going to **** (in ratio) what youre going to eat. Its possible but programming knowledge is required or you can plan on buying a entire new electronics system and most likely some sensors.
THIS APPLIES ONLY TO NATURALLY ASPIRATED APPLICATIONS!
Boost controllers and carbs analogy either makes no sense....unless youre customizing a useless system and boosting a carbed system and enjoy wasting money (Ill give you the benefit of the doubt since were speaking modern electrical systems considering ECU tuning is pointless with a carbed system). Unless you have a nearly "classic" car I dont understand your analogy as EFI and boost go hand in hand and a carbed turbo setup wouldnt use a boost controller. You would spool and dump all of your fuel from carbs then most likely stall. Supercharger sounds more efficient with a big block v8 with 4 holly 4 barrel carbs. Seriously where did u get the carb and boost analogy to compare to vol eff? Always willing to learn
Hopefully that makes more sense. It took me long enough to write but I hope someone can get something from it....
What? You're using some words or phrases incorrectly.
RPM has nothing to do with country of origin. 1000 revolutions per minute is the same in the US as it is in France.
How do you adjust your volumetric efficiency? You can't tune your volumetric efficiency, it isn't like cranking up boost or fiddling with your carburetor.
I have no idea what your talking about with molecular diffusion. That portion does not make any sense. Maybe try saying it again, differently?
The 4G94 is a 2.0 L SOHC engine. The 4G93 was a 1.8 L SOHC engine. It had slightly different parameters that allowed it to rev higher and take more boost, as you said.
If you want to learn more, there are lots of great books out there.
RPM has nothing to do with country of origin. 1000 revolutions per minute is the same in the US as it is in France.
How do you adjust your volumetric efficiency? You can't tune your volumetric efficiency, it isn't like cranking up boost or fiddling with your carburetor.
I have no idea what your talking about with molecular diffusion. That portion does not make any sense. Maybe try saying it again, differently?
The 4G94 is a 2.0 L SOHC engine. The 4G93 was a 1.8 L SOHC engine. It had slightly different parameters that allowed it to rev higher and take more boost, as you said.
If you want to learn more, there are lots of great books out there.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 75
From: Canuckistan
Sorry didnt really prof read that.
Illl keep it brief as its getting late but I will explain a bit better.
Yes RPM is the same measurment in any country. What I was trying to say was that Rev limiters in euro countries are higher than in the US. WHY? There is a tax in France for example, for each Cheval translated literally to horses or horsepower. So EUDM manufacturers of a Lancer ES will allow the rev limiter to "bounce" at a higher rate than USDM manufactured Lancer ES. This is due to the tax in France which many other European countries adopted as well (more commonly anything beyond a 2L engine will have a increased tax). This higher revving allows for more horsepower while maintaining the 2L benchmark (actually 1999cc). EUDM manufacturers realized you could get more HP from a higher revving car. USDM does this as a "safety" or DOT regulation (probably tied to some bs emission standard thats complete garbage) Kind of like when legislation was passed many years ago then revised pertaining to speed limits on hwy. If you remember or not, the US dropped the speed limit by 10 mph on hwys in hopes to reduce emissions (yes it did happen but realized It does nothing to reduce emissions because I could ride 55mph in 2nd gear and produce more CO2 and the genius behind this realized its not speed that creates CO2) sorry way
point is higher revving (obvious timing adjustments by manufacturer) has more potential for horsepower because think about a dyno reading from the US. max hp and tq are obtained right before you bounce rev limiter.
Next your vol eff can be altered. Its written in the raw data. Not a ROM or HEX file (EVOscan is great program and tactrix is a great company BUT there is a lot more that the software is not capable of doing or not yet capable). In a sense you are correct you cant change your volumetric eff, unless you know programming data and can command the ecu with a scan tool! "Scantool" -quotes are more fitting for this category. If you just bolt on a exhaust system to a 4g94 and a intake system you will effectively loose tq and hp at low end which is great if you commonly make a "run" from a roll at 50mph but more often than not, thats not usually the case. Summary: your vol eff can be adjusted via a very low voltage flash (5v to be exact and is a nerve racking experience since you cant put your car in the KEY on ENGINE off method flash with your laptop (which needs to be adjusted to use correct voltage) Note you do not want to eff this up!!!
Molecular diffusion-google it. Lets try this: Imagine you have a small room full of balloons just enough so one does not pop ( think of this as the manifold and exhaust system). Now imagine you have a door to that room full of baloons (theres some pressure because of HIGH CONCENTRATION of baloons). Then you open that door. What happens? The baloons will spill out of thee room into the space that has no pressure or a area of LOW CONCENTRATION)
Im trying my best to help readers follow this:
HEAT (room full of balloons)the balloons are exhaust gases HOT is highly concentrated and it biologically, mechanically, whatever helps you grasp the concept, wants to move to a area of low concentration. (Open area that you opened the door where these balloons are stored)This is your exhaust system after detonation into the exhaust system. The exhaust piping is a LOWER CONCENTRATED area as it is COLDER than temp at the header. The area the balloons fell into once you opened theoretical door
Hopefully this had made sense otherwise PM me or read again, try google. Its basic enviro science.
Now to add the final piece: hot gasses get cooler passing through exhaust sytem and out pipe to atmosphere which is VERY LOW CONCENTRATION. With oversized exhaust on DECELERATION you have just created negative pressure therby sucking cold air back into your exhaust system. Then you her the overly loud popping. (Just like pouring water over ice cubes). (Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
In summary: if you dont have enough air flowing in then you cant "****" more than you "eat" Meaning if your exhaust is too large of piping then your "****ting"expelling exhaust gases than you "eating" the air amount of air youre intaking. Back pressure is lost and youve lost low end power tq and hp. Contrary to popular belief from old school mechanics the more flow the better is not true for higher hp 4 cycl. applications. This is why you have to adjust your vol eff. to be sure youre going to **** (in ratio) what youre going to eat. Its possible but programming knowledge is required or you can plan on buying a entire new electronics system and most likely some sensors.
THIS APPLIES ONLY TO NATURALLY ASPIRATED APPLICATIONS!
Boost controllers and carbs analogy either makes no sense....unless youre customizing a useless system and boosting a carbed system and enjoy wasting money (Ill give you the benefit of the doubt since were speaking modern electrical systems considering ECU tuning is pointless with a carbed system). Unless you have a nearly "classic" car I dont understand your analogy as EFI and boost go hand in hand and a carbed turbo setup wouldnt use a boost controller. You would spool and dump all of your fuel from carbs then most likely stall. Supercharger sounds more efficient with a big block v8 with 4 holly 4 barrel carbs. Seriously where did u get the carb and boost analogy to compare to vol eff? Always willing to learn
Hopefully that makes more sense. It took me long enough to write but I hope someone can get something from it....
Illl keep it brief as its getting late but I will explain a bit better.
Yes RPM is the same measurment in any country. What I was trying to say was that Rev limiters in euro countries are higher than in the US. WHY? There is a tax in France for example, for each Cheval translated literally to horses or horsepower. So EUDM manufacturers of a Lancer ES will allow the rev limiter to "bounce" at a higher rate than USDM manufactured Lancer ES. This is due to the tax in France which many other European countries adopted as well (more commonly anything beyond a 2L engine will have a increased tax). This higher revving allows for more horsepower while maintaining the 2L benchmark (actually 1999cc). EUDM manufacturers realized you could get more HP from a higher revving car. USDM does this as a "safety" or DOT regulation (probably tied to some bs emission standard thats complete garbage) Kind of like when legislation was passed many years ago then revised pertaining to speed limits on hwy. If you remember or not, the US dropped the speed limit by 10 mph on hwys in hopes to reduce emissions (yes it did happen but realized It does nothing to reduce emissions because I could ride 55mph in 2nd gear and produce more CO2 and the genius behind this realized its not speed that creates CO2) sorry way
point is higher revving (obvious timing adjustments by manufacturer) has more potential for horsepower because think about a dyno reading from the US. max hp and tq are obtained right before you bounce rev limiter.
Next your vol eff can be altered. Its written in the raw data. Not a ROM or HEX file (EVOscan is great program and tactrix is a great company BUT there is a lot more that the software is not capable of doing or not yet capable). In a sense you are correct you cant change your volumetric eff, unless you know programming data and can command the ecu with a scan tool! "Scantool" -quotes are more fitting for this category. If you just bolt on a exhaust system to a 4g94 and a intake system you will effectively loose tq and hp at low end which is great if you commonly make a "run" from a roll at 50mph but more often than not, thats not usually the case. Summary: your vol eff can be adjusted via a very low voltage flash (5v to be exact and is a nerve racking experience since you cant put your car in the KEY on ENGINE off method flash with your laptop (which needs to be adjusted to use correct voltage) Note you do not want to eff this up!!!
Molecular diffusion-google it. Lets try this: Imagine you have a small room full of balloons just enough so one does not pop ( think of this as the manifold and exhaust system). Now imagine you have a door to that room full of baloons (theres some pressure because of HIGH CONCENTRATION of baloons). Then you open that door. What happens? The baloons will spill out of thee room into the space that has no pressure or a area of LOW CONCENTRATION)
Im trying my best to help readers follow this:
HEAT (room full of balloons)the balloons are exhaust gases HOT is highly concentrated and it biologically, mechanically, whatever helps you grasp the concept, wants to move to a area of low concentration. (Open area that you opened the door where these balloons are stored)This is your exhaust system after detonation into the exhaust system. The exhaust piping is a LOWER CONCENTRATED area as it is COLDER than temp at the header. The area the balloons fell into once you opened theoretical door
Hopefully this had made sense otherwise PM me or read again, try google. Its basic enviro science.
Now to add the final piece: hot gasses get cooler passing through exhaust sytem and out pipe to atmosphere which is VERY LOW CONCENTRATION. With oversized exhaust on DECELERATION you have just created negative pressure therby sucking cold air back into your exhaust system. Then you her the overly loud popping. (Just like pouring water over ice cubes). (Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes a little more sense.
In summary: if you dont have enough air flowing in then you cant "****" more than you "eat" Meaning if your exhaust is too large of piping then your "****ting"expelling exhaust gases than you "eating" the air amount of air youre intaking. Back pressure is lost and youve lost low end power tq and hp. Contrary to popular belief from old school mechanics the more flow the better is not true for higher hp 4 cycl. applications. This is why you have to adjust your vol eff. to be sure youre going to **** (in ratio) what youre going to eat. Its possible but programming knowledge is required or you can plan on buying a entire new electronics system and most likely some sensors.
THIS APPLIES ONLY TO NATURALLY ASPIRATED APPLICATIONS!
Boost controllers and carbs analogy either makes no sense....unless youre customizing a useless system and boosting a carbed system and enjoy wasting money (Ill give you the benefit of the doubt since were speaking modern electrical systems considering ECU tuning is pointless with a carbed system). Unless you have a nearly "classic" car I dont understand your analogy as EFI and boost go hand in hand and a carbed turbo setup wouldnt use a boost controller. You would spool and dump all of your fuel from carbs then most likely stall. Supercharger sounds more efficient with a big block v8 with 4 holly 4 barrel carbs. Seriously where did u get the carb and boost analogy to compare to vol eff? Always willing to learn
Hopefully that makes more sense. It took me long enough to write but I hope someone can get something from it....
That's not 100% correct. Max horsepower is not always obtained right before the rev limiter. Look at a bone stock Lancer dyno; peak power is well before the rev limiter. The stock Lancer is not designed to rev high, the cam is the wrong profile, the tune is wrong, etc. I don't know how high Lancers rev in Europe or Asia.
I don't think you're changing or tuning your volumetric efficiency directly. You're changing ignition, fuel and timing to better use the increased flow. For the most part, that's not needed for minor bolt-ons. You are right that you do need to tune to take into account mods though but it is a matter of worth. Spending 100$ tuning to gain 1 HP is a waste to most.
I have a couple degrees in science, I do know molecular diffusion
. Backpressure is important for street cars to some extent, but, if you're shooting for high HP, it's not really relevant. This is why you see so many cars running downpipe dumps. The popping from exhausts also comes from unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust. Based on what you've said, it would make no sense for cold, highly diffuse air to enter the exhaust system on deceleration through molecular diffusion (which based on what you've said includes a few other concepts like thermodynamics). I wasn't saying boost controllers and carburetors, I was using those as examples of ways people tune their cars to make more power. There isn't a dial for volumetric efficiency that operates independently of other parameters.
Edit: I thought it some more and molecular diffusion doesn't make sense here. As you've described it, molecular diffusion is a passive process, it does not require the input of energy. The assumption is generally that the two substances are at the same temperature, pressure, etc. In an engine, this assumption does not hold. You have a huge input of energy through combustion.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 23, 2012 at 03:59 PM.
NOW WERE GETTING ON THE SAME PAGE!
I would agree with you that yes thermodynamics (for the love of god if you can find or actuallly remember the name xxxxxx's Law I will owe you. I even got to the point where I started looking at a text book from my molec bio class waaay back in the day) play a larger role the molecular diffusion. I didnt want to insult someone but point I was trying to make is this. You have exhaust gases flowing at kpw\psi whatever unit you choose. Your idle and then gradually hit WOT until you bonce the limiter. You have to agree that with exhaust pressure in a larger pipe during WOT and then let off the pedal that you will indeed create a vaccum due to negative pressure secondary to over sized piping. The only way it would pop by late ignition of fuel in the exhaust would be if your running too rich or perhaps a EVO or turbo application. Quick change to mixture and yay you can shoot flames out of your car. I have to disagree with it being fuel. Simply any dipstick with 30 dollars and a civic will make that sound welding a 3in ID to a 1.75in OD stock pipe with a thrush cherry bomb.
I agree once again that you can indirectly change your volumetric eff. with a equation and absolute value that you just mentioned. However, your tuning multiple aspects to achieve a vol eff percentage. That can either be beneficial or completely screw your "tune". depending on you RAW data its much easier to alter exactly where you find the change pre and post bolt on.
Spending another BiLL on 2 hp for a bolt on is worthless but when you have soo much flow that you struggle to hit 20mph in 1st gear, Its worth it. I would not use HP...might say tq but more of just adjusting absolute throttle position and AF. Would I pay to do that? Hell no! I didnt spend years in a race shop to burn methane and break stuff Ill do it in about 5 minutes (just my car considering I have all values an data saved) Most I have ever spent on tuning software or cables is well under 40 dollars. I just got lucky early in college as I learned to program and code from roommates.
BS. in Biological Sciences with minor in physics
MSPA-C: Masters in physician assistant studies...people pay me to help them cut people
Id like to continue conversation but wondering if this is really a great thread to do so. Nice to find someone that understands mechanics. biological laws, etc. Fun to bounce ideas around and discuss.
Stay on this thread? Your thoughts?
"SO beware of any man who owns a pig farm"!
I would agree with you that yes thermodynamics (for the love of god if you can find or actuallly remember the name xxxxxx's Law I will owe you. I even got to the point where I started looking at a text book from my molec bio class waaay back in the day) play a larger role the molecular diffusion. I didnt want to insult someone but point I was trying to make is this. You have exhaust gases flowing at kpw\psi whatever unit you choose. Your idle and then gradually hit WOT until you bonce the limiter. You have to agree that with exhaust pressure in a larger pipe during WOT and then let off the pedal that you will indeed create a vaccum due to negative pressure secondary to over sized piping. The only way it would pop by late ignition of fuel in the exhaust would be if your running too rich or perhaps a EVO or turbo application. Quick change to mixture and yay you can shoot flames out of your car. I have to disagree with it being fuel. Simply any dipstick with 30 dollars and a civic will make that sound welding a 3in ID to a 1.75in OD stock pipe with a thrush cherry bomb.
I agree once again that you can indirectly change your volumetric eff. with a equation and absolute value that you just mentioned. However, your tuning multiple aspects to achieve a vol eff percentage. That can either be beneficial or completely screw your "tune". depending on you RAW data its much easier to alter exactly where you find the change pre and post bolt on.
Spending another BiLL on 2 hp for a bolt on is worthless but when you have soo much flow that you struggle to hit 20mph in 1st gear, Its worth it. I would not use HP...might say tq but more of just adjusting absolute throttle position and AF. Would I pay to do that? Hell no! I didnt spend years in a race shop to burn methane and break stuff
Ill do it in about 5 minutes (just my car considering I have all values an data saved) Most I have ever spent on tuning software or cables is well under 40 dollars. I just got lucky early in college as I learned to program and code from roommates.BS. in Biological Sciences with minor in physics
MSPA-C: Masters in physician assistant studies...people pay me to help them cut people
Id like to continue conversation but wondering if this is really a great thread to do so. Nice to find someone that understands mechanics. biological laws, etc. Fun to bounce ideas around and discuss.
Stay on this thread? Your thoughts?
"SO beware of any man who owns a pig farm"!
That's not 100% correct. Max horsepower is not always obtained right before the rev limiter. Look at a bone stock Lancer dyno; peak power is well before the rev limiter. The stock Lancer is not designed to rev high, the cam is the wrong profile, the tune is wrong, etc. I don't know how high Lancers rev in Europe or Asia.
I don't think you're changing or tuning your volumetric efficiency directly. You're changing ignition, fuel and timing to better use the increased flow. For the most part, that's not needed for minor bolt-ons. You are right that you do need to tune to take into account mods though but it is a matter of worth. Spending 100$ tuning to gain 1 HP is a waste to most.
I have a couple degrees in science, I do know molecular diffusion. Backpressure is important for street cars to some extent, but, if you're shooting for high HP, it's not really relevant. This is why you see so many cars running downpipe dumps. The popping from exhausts also comes from unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust. Based on what you've said, it would make no sense for cold, highly diffuse air to enter the exhaust system on deceleration through molecular diffusion (which based on what you've said includes a few other concepts like thermodynamics).
I wasn't saying boost controllers and carburetors, I was using those as examples of ways people tune their cars to make more power. There isn't a dial for volumetric efficiency that operates independently of other parameters.
Edit: I thought it some more and molecular diffusion doesn't make sense here. As you've described it, molecular diffusion is a passive process, it does not require the input of energy. The assumption is generally that the two substances are at the same temperature, pressure, etc. In an engine, this assumption does not hold. You have a huge input of energy through combustion.
I don't think you're changing or tuning your volumetric efficiency directly. You're changing ignition, fuel and timing to better use the increased flow. For the most part, that's not needed for minor bolt-ons. You are right that you do need to tune to take into account mods though but it is a matter of worth. Spending 100$ tuning to gain 1 HP is a waste to most.
I have a couple degrees in science, I do know molecular diffusion
. Backpressure is important for street cars to some extent, but, if you're shooting for high HP, it's not really relevant. This is why you see so many cars running downpipe dumps. The popping from exhausts also comes from unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust. Based on what you've said, it would make no sense for cold, highly diffuse air to enter the exhaust system on deceleration through molecular diffusion (which based on what you've said includes a few other concepts like thermodynamics). I wasn't saying boost controllers and carburetors, I was using those as examples of ways people tune their cars to make more power. There isn't a dial for volumetric efficiency that operates independently of other parameters.
Edit: I thought it some more and molecular diffusion doesn't make sense here. As you've described it, molecular diffusion is a passive process, it does not require the input of energy. The assumption is generally that the two substances are at the same temperature, pressure, etc. In an engine, this assumption does not hold. You have a huge input of energy through combustion.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 15,634
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From: Canuckistan
NOW WERE GETTING ON THE SAME PAGE!
I would agree with you that yes thermodynamics (for the love of god if you can find or actuallly remember the name xxxxxx's Law I will owe you. I even got to the point where I started looking at a text book from my molec bio class waaay back in the day) play a larger role the molecular diffusion. I didnt want to insult someone but point I was trying to make is this. You have exhaust gases flowing at kpw\psi whatever unit you choose. Your idle and then gradually hit WOT until you bonce the limiter. You have to agree that with exhaust pressure in a larger pipe during WOT and then let off the pedal that you will indeed create a vaccum due to negative pressure secondary to over sized piping. The only way it would pop by late ignition of fuel in the exhaust would be if your running too rich or perhaps a EVO or turbo application. Quick change to mixture and yay you can shoot flames out of your car. I have to disagree with it being fuel. Simply any dipstick with 30 dollars and a civic will make that sound welding a 3in ID to a 1.75in OD stock pipe with a thrush cherry bomb.
I agree once again that you can indirectly change your volumetric eff. with a equation and absolute value that you just mentioned. However, your tuning multiple aspects to achieve a vol eff percentage. That can either be beneficial or completely screw your "tune". depending on you RAW data its much easier to alter exactly where you find the change pre and post bolt on.
Spending another BiLL on 2 hp for a bolt on is worthless but when you have soo much flow that you struggle to hit 20mph in 1st gear, Its worth it. I would not use HP...might say tq but more of just adjusting absolute throttle position and AF. Would I pay to do that? Hell no! I didnt spend years in a race shop to burn methane and break stuff Ill do it in about 5 minutes (just my car considering I have all values an data saved) Most I have ever spent on tuning software or cables is well under 40 dollars. I just got lucky early in college as I learned to program and code from roommates.
BS. in Biological Sciences with minor in physics
MSPA-C: Masters in physician assistant studies...people pay me to help them cut people
Id like to continue conversation but wondering if this is really a great thread to do so. Nice to find someone that understands mechanics. biological laws, etc. Fun to bounce ideas around and discuss.
Stay on this thread? Your thoughts?
"SO beware of any man who owns a pig farm"!
I would agree with you that yes thermodynamics (for the love of god if you can find or actuallly remember the name xxxxxx's Law I will owe you. I even got to the point where I started looking at a text book from my molec bio class waaay back in the day) play a larger role the molecular diffusion. I didnt want to insult someone but point I was trying to make is this. You have exhaust gases flowing at kpw\psi whatever unit you choose. Your idle and then gradually hit WOT until you bonce the limiter. You have to agree that with exhaust pressure in a larger pipe during WOT and then let off the pedal that you will indeed create a vaccum due to negative pressure secondary to over sized piping. The only way it would pop by late ignition of fuel in the exhaust would be if your running too rich or perhaps a EVO or turbo application. Quick change to mixture and yay you can shoot flames out of your car. I have to disagree with it being fuel. Simply any dipstick with 30 dollars and a civic will make that sound welding a 3in ID to a 1.75in OD stock pipe with a thrush cherry bomb.
I agree once again that you can indirectly change your volumetric eff. with a equation and absolute value that you just mentioned. However, your tuning multiple aspects to achieve a vol eff percentage. That can either be beneficial or completely screw your "tune". depending on you RAW data its much easier to alter exactly where you find the change pre and post bolt on.
Spending another BiLL on 2 hp for a bolt on is worthless but when you have soo much flow that you struggle to hit 20mph in 1st gear, Its worth it. I would not use HP...might say tq but more of just adjusting absolute throttle position and AF. Would I pay to do that? Hell no! I didnt spend years in a race shop to burn methane and break stuff
Ill do it in about 5 minutes (just my car considering I have all values an data saved) Most I have ever spent on tuning software or cables is well under 40 dollars. I just got lucky early in college as I learned to program and code from roommates.BS. in Biological Sciences with minor in physics
MSPA-C: Masters in physician assistant studies...people pay me to help them cut people
Id like to continue conversation but wondering if this is really a great thread to do so. Nice to find someone that understands mechanics. biological laws, etc. Fun to bounce ideas around and discuss.
Stay on this thread? Your thoughts?
"SO beware of any man who owns a pig farm"!
When you hit the rev limiter, either ignition or fuel gets cut. Ignition cut is pretty common and that creates the pop. You temporarily have a situation where fuel has been sprayed into the cylinder(s) but there is no ignition. It's this fuel that pops. You also do not get 100% burn in any cylinder. Due to localized factors like spray pattern, temporary hot or cold sites in the cylinder, etc., you can get small bits of fuel that make it through.
http://www.mikuni.com/tg_backfires_in_exhaust.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-fire
These "sources" support the idea that popping has nothing to do with molecular diffusion but is unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust system.
What do you mean "so much flow that you struggle to hit 20 MPH in 1st gear"? That phrase is confusing. Simple bolt-ons will not substantially mess with how efficient the engine is.
I really don't think biology has any place in a thread on cars. The concepts are vastly different, both in absolute terms and application wise.
Last edited by ambystom01; May 23, 2012 at 09:48 PM.
have to admit Amby did a awesome write up and come to find out after reading and reading and reading evom threads, along with minor increments over period of time to target AFR which reduced knock Im close to elminating the pre-discussed "popping". Running NA leaner high octane maps have helped tremendously while not touching lo octane maps for obvious reason. Gotta givea thanks to this guy along many others of the EVOM community that make me read a everything possible including Merlins 172pg pdf.
As I forgot this thread over time the reason Im back is if anyone knows what stock 4g94 injectors are capable of pushing. I would need latency translations if I am not mistaken?
As I forgot this thread over time the reason Im back is if anyone knows what stock 4g94 injectors are capable of pushing. I would need latency translations if I am not mistaken?
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (7)
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Posts: 15,634
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From: Canuckistan
I didn't think the stock Lancer ECU had a high octane/low octane map. I thought it one map only. You must have a really ****ed up tune if you're getting knock and popping. I doubt you can hit the max of the stock injectors staying NA and just doing tuning, assuming your mod list is up to date.
Edit: It does have two maps.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...-question.html
Seems like some Lancers run on the low octane map while others prefer the high octane map.
Edit: It does have two maps.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...-question.html
Seems like some Lancers run on the low octane map while others prefer the high octane map.
Last edited by ambystom01; Jul 5, 2012 at 11:57 PM.
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From: CA
Amazing FAQ writeup Ambystom01, this gave me great idea of what I want to do with my oz lancer. I do have a coupe of in-depth questions I was hoping you would help me out with since you still seem to be active on this thread.
The mods i have so far are an exhaust, intake, new lightweight rims, and performance tires. I'm planning to finish the car off with a rear sway bar (RRm's progress brand probably), coilovers, and maybe a header (its my daily driver so I don't want to blow the engine out with a turbo).
(1) I bought the car used with a nice set of lowered spring on it that look great, but give a very bumpy ride with the stock shocks. Would newer better shocks fix this or would I need a set of coilovers?
(2) As a follow up to question 1, you said that "ride quality will go down significantly when you install coilovers." what did you mean by this? Will the ride be even more bumpy or less?
(3) I was also thinking about getting a header, but since it makes the car louder I'm not sure if i want one or not? Is it only noisy on high revs? What kind of gains would I be getting?
(4) You said that Power chips/resistors were useless modifactions, but I was browsing RRM and found a "Road Race Piggy Back A/T" ECU addon for my automatic listed for $400 (I know, I'm a "guuuurrl" for driving an automatic). Is this worth getting?
Please get back to me on this, I'm a lancer noob so I would greatly appreciate your input.
Also, I laughed out loud when I read "sand in my vagina" good stuff.
The mods i have so far are an exhaust, intake, new lightweight rims, and performance tires. I'm planning to finish the car off with a rear sway bar (RRm's progress brand probably), coilovers, and maybe a header (its my daily driver so I don't want to blow the engine out with a turbo).
(1) I bought the car used with a nice set of lowered spring on it that look great, but give a very bumpy ride with the stock shocks. Would newer better shocks fix this or would I need a set of coilovers?
(2) As a follow up to question 1, you said that "ride quality will go down significantly when you install coilovers." what did you mean by this? Will the ride be even more bumpy or less?
(3) I was also thinking about getting a header, but since it makes the car louder I'm not sure if i want one or not? Is it only noisy on high revs? What kind of gains would I be getting?
(4) You said that Power chips/resistors were useless modifactions, but I was browsing RRM and found a "Road Race Piggy Back A/T" ECU addon for my automatic listed for $400 (I know, I'm a "guuuurrl" for driving an automatic). Is this worth getting?
Please get back to me on this, I'm a lancer noob so I would greatly appreciate your input.
Also, I laughed out loud when I read "sand in my vagina" good stuff.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 5
From: Baytown, TX
sniff.. weclome to the jungle.
1 - it depends on how many miles your car has. a lot of people say you should replace your stuff every 50-60,000 miles. lowered springs make your car a little more bumpy because your shocks have a reduced amount of travel now. i've owned an OZ with springs and an evo with coil-overs and i have to say the difference is night and day. the ride maybe a little more harsh but if you buy ones with adjustable damping - that'll make your ride more bearable. my vote would go to buying the coil-overs.
2. kinda goes with #1
3. my oz had kamikaze headers and i loved them. the headers dont make that much difference in noise. thats more the cat/test pipe/exhaust. i noticed a lot more pull at higher revs (3-4000 rpm) and i gained a couple mph on my 1/4 mile. youd be getting 5-7 more horses IMO.
4. ebay chips/resistors ARE useless. however having spent a small fortune on rrm stuff, i can say everything they make is legit. however you need someone who knows maps and things like that to help you with the tune so you can maximize your benefit.
hope this helps. amby is a great guy and he knows his sh*t. i'd trust him.
good luck
1 - it depends on how many miles your car has. a lot of people say you should replace your stuff every 50-60,000 miles. lowered springs make your car a little more bumpy because your shocks have a reduced amount of travel now. i've owned an OZ with springs and an evo with coil-overs and i have to say the difference is night and day. the ride maybe a little more harsh but if you buy ones with adjustable damping - that'll make your ride more bearable. my vote would go to buying the coil-overs.
2. kinda goes with #1
3. my oz had kamikaze headers and i loved them. the headers dont make that much difference in noise. thats more the cat/test pipe/exhaust. i noticed a lot more pull at higher revs (3-4000 rpm) and i gained a couple mph on my 1/4 mile. youd be getting 5-7 more horses IMO.
4. ebay chips/resistors ARE useless. however having spent a small fortune on rrm stuff, i can say everything they make is legit. however you need someone who knows maps and things like that to help you with the tune so you can maximize your benefit.
hope this helps. amby is a great guy and he knows his sh*t. i'd trust him.
good luck
Thread Starter
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From: Canuckistan
The only thing I'd answer differently that 03 is that a header doesn't really do all that much power wise. You'll gain a bit up top, but not 5-7 HP. I didn't notice gains like that with all of my mods.
RRM is a decent company, but you're paying a hefty premium in some instances. You may be able to find a piggyback ECU or another tuning option for cheaper.
RRM is a decent company, but you're paying a hefty premium in some instances. You may be able to find a piggyback ECU or another tuning option for cheaper.
