2011 Lancer GTS
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
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From: 210
The 2009-2010 lancers had 3 packages. Sun and sound, touring and navigation. You can't get the touring without the sun and sound. So, if you don't have the rockford system you dont have hid lights that are stock. The dealer may have installed them but the car did not leave the factory like that. The touring package also has a wind deadening windshield, more sound insulation as well as rain sensing supers.
Did you mean rain sensing wipers?
Cause I'm not sure what a "supers" is on a car
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
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From: Oakland, nj
Yeah I meant wipers, but the auto spell thing on my phone is annoying. There is so much mis-information in this thread so let me clear up some things so when you goto a tuner store or a car show people are not looking at you like you're on drugs.
1. A CVT engine does not exist, CVT is a transmission. I don't know what else to say.
2. There is no such thing as a stock HID light on the lancer, and on top of it, there is no such thing as a HID halogen. This is a complete contradiction.
A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with a tungsten filament contained within an inert gas and a small amount of a halogen such as iodine or bromine. The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a chemical reaction known as a halogen cycle.
HID lighting does not have a filament but instead creates light by igniting an electrical discharge between two electrodes in an air tight tiny quartz capsule filled with xenon gas. HID lighting are also called Xenon lighting, referring to the gas inside the bulb.
HID lighting improves durability by 10 times as road vibrations can cause damage to halogen filament, but there is nothing to break inside HID bulb. These light sources also produce a blue-white light that is safer because it is closer to natural daylight.
The color temperature is more than 5000K compared to 2300K for halogen. The light output from a 35W HID Xenon lamp is 300% more light than a 55W halogen bulb. The HID Xenon system will also consume much less power from your vehicles electrical system and generate much less heat during operation
Now: You need to take into consideration the housing.
Projector VS Reflector
The optics to distribute the light in the desired pattern are designed into the reflector itself, rather than into the lens. Depending on the development tools and techniques in use, the reflector may be engineered from the start as a bespoke shape, or it may start as a parabola standing in for the size and shape of the completed package. In the latter case, the entire surface area is modified so as to produce individual segments of specifically calculated, complex contours. The shape of each segment is designed such that their cumulative effect produces the required light distribution pattern.
Modern reflectors are commonly made of compression-moulded or injection molded plastic, though glass and metal optic reflectors also exist. The reflective surface is vapour deposited aluminum with a clear overcoating to prevent the extremely thin aluminum from oxidizing. Extremely tight tolerances must be maintained in the design and production of complex-reflector headlamps.
Long story short, light bounces around and sends a beam forward illuminating the road. The GTS stock comes with Halogen reflector lighting, not HID reflector lighting. We will get to this in a second:
Projector lighting, does more or less the same as a reflector BUT, it does it inside a separate housing. With the lightbulb inside this housing, it then hits a lens which gives the light a more "solid" beam thus improving the quality of light.
What does
use?
Lancer - No touring package = Halogen lights reflector housing:
If they have the package:
Ralliart it is the Recaro, GTS it is touring, etc etc:
You get HID Projector lights.
Here is the simple way to tell:
http://www.oznium.com/hid
See the pictures: Notice how the BMW top image creates a clean beam and the explorer below has light splashing everywhere? That's an easy way to tell at night. In daylight, it will look like the bottom. If your light housing does not look like that Acura below, it is without a doubt not a Mitsubishi HID system and this is concerning in two different ways.
1. If the car was pre owned, who installed the HIDs, Ballasts etc.
2. If they f*ed up your electrical system by splicing wires etc)it can happen) Mitsubishi does not have to cover the electrical system. But who knows, I would have to have the car in my face to tell.
Now, you CAN install HID lights in a reflector housing however it will never ever ever come from the factory. Why? Because in 90% of the states it is illegal.. The lights blind people, they can cause accidents etc. They do not produce a clean beam in most applications. I know in my state, NJ, it's about a $500 buck ticket. Other states may or may not enforce this. So in short if your light bulb housing does not look like the one above, and it has super bright lights I would check with your local agencies to determine if you run the risk of being ticketed. They will not care if Mitsubishi installed it or not. This is no different then tint: NJ dos not allow front tint, so from PA to NJ you can see cars come from the dealer with entirely different tint %'s. I hope this clears up things:
I saw your garage Mex24x and you have the stock Mitsubishi projectors which would indicate the touring package. You without a doubt do NOT want the HIDS in a reflector system. That is fail.
1. A CVT engine does not exist, CVT is a transmission. I don't know what else to say.
2. There is no such thing as a stock HID light on the lancer, and on top of it, there is no such thing as a HID halogen. This is a complete contradiction.
A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with a tungsten filament contained within an inert gas and a small amount of a halogen such as iodine or bromine. The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a chemical reaction known as a halogen cycle.
HID lighting does not have a filament but instead creates light by igniting an electrical discharge between two electrodes in an air tight tiny quartz capsule filled with xenon gas. HID lighting are also called Xenon lighting, referring to the gas inside the bulb.
HID lighting improves durability by 10 times as road vibrations can cause damage to halogen filament, but there is nothing to break inside HID bulb. These light sources also produce a blue-white light that is safer because it is closer to natural daylight.
The color temperature is more than 5000K compared to 2300K for halogen. The light output from a 35W HID Xenon lamp is 300% more light than a 55W halogen bulb. The HID Xenon system will also consume much less power from your vehicles electrical system and generate much less heat during operation
Now: You need to take into consideration the housing.
Projector VS Reflector
The optics to distribute the light in the desired pattern are designed into the reflector itself, rather than into the lens. Depending on the development tools and techniques in use, the reflector may be engineered from the start as a bespoke shape, or it may start as a parabola standing in for the size and shape of the completed package. In the latter case, the entire surface area is modified so as to produce individual segments of specifically calculated, complex contours. The shape of each segment is designed such that their cumulative effect produces the required light distribution pattern.
Modern reflectors are commonly made of compression-moulded or injection molded plastic, though glass and metal optic reflectors also exist. The reflective surface is vapour deposited aluminum with a clear overcoating to prevent the extremely thin aluminum from oxidizing. Extremely tight tolerances must be maintained in the design and production of complex-reflector headlamps.
Long story short, light bounces around and sends a beam forward illuminating the road. The GTS stock comes with Halogen reflector lighting, not HID reflector lighting. We will get to this in a second:
Projector lighting, does more or less the same as a reflector BUT, it does it inside a separate housing. With the lightbulb inside this housing, it then hits a lens which gives the light a more "solid" beam thus improving the quality of light.
What does
use?Lancer - No touring package = Halogen lights reflector housing:
If they have the package:
Ralliart it is the Recaro, GTS it is touring, etc etc:
You get HID Projector lights.
Here is the simple way to tell:
http://www.oznium.com/hid
See the pictures: Notice how the BMW top image creates a clean beam and the explorer below has light splashing everywhere? That's an easy way to tell at night. In daylight, it will look like the bottom. If your light housing does not look like that Acura below, it is without a doubt not a Mitsubishi HID system and this is concerning in two different ways.
1. If the car was pre owned, who installed the HIDs, Ballasts etc.
2. If they f*ed up your electrical system by splicing wires etc)it can happen) Mitsubishi does not have to cover the electrical system. But who knows, I would have to have the car in my face to tell.
Now, you CAN install HID lights in a reflector housing however it will never ever ever come from the factory. Why? Because in 90% of the states it is illegal.. The lights blind people, they can cause accidents etc. They do not produce a clean beam in most applications. I know in my state, NJ, it's about a $500 buck ticket. Other states may or may not enforce this. So in short if your light bulb housing does not look like the one above, and it has super bright lights I would check with your local agencies to determine if you run the risk of being ticketed. They will not care if Mitsubishi installed it or not. This is no different then tint: NJ dos not allow front tint, so from PA to NJ you can see cars come from the dealer with entirely different tint %'s. I hope this clears up things:
I saw your garage Mex24x and you have the stock Mitsubishi projectors which would indicate the touring package. You without a doubt do NOT want the HIDS in a reflector system. That is fail.
Last edited by Possible10GTS; Dec 5, 2010 at 07:09 AM.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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From: Minisoda
Where I'm from I haven't seen a single ralliart yet didn't know about them until I started researching online none of the dealers had them they had evo's but no ralliart I'm just looking for a base gts to drive around town prob won't even mod it I just want something around $18k and is a sedan, it's main priority is to get me from a to b with 4 doors and good mpg its a close match between a civic si sedan or a gts sedan I drove both and liked them both although the 6spd shifts smooth as butter on the civic but the gts looks sooo much better imo so it will just come down to the pricing at the end of the day. 
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
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From: Oakland, nj
If your going to get touring GTS I recommed getting the Ralliart art instead, its only 2,000 to3,000 more then Gts touring, its faster then the Lexus is350 in 1/4 and 0-60 in peformance, can pretty much get them for 25 or less otd new, The 2010 Lancer gts manual out peformances the 2009 TSX, and 2011 Scion tc in all 0-100 and 1/4 mile test even with 20 to 40 Hp less the Lancer GTS was still faster then those two cars, sources from "Edmund" Car Reviews.
A Ralliart with Recaro package 25k OTD? I doubt it. The car base is 28k, add the 3k touring package and T&T&T and you are looking at about 34k sticker depending on your sales taxes. Getting that car for 25k is what, a 26% off sticker? Not likely unless it is a leftover from a previous year. Using your same logic, one could get the GTS touring for 23k sticker with the package, at a 26% dip, thats 17,000. This does not take into consideration the shorter warranty, the premium fuel, higher insurance, and higher maintenance one assumes when buying a ralliart. In all honesty if you are looking to stay within the same range but don't like the GTS lancer due to it moving like a scalded dog, I would recommend the Suzuki Kizashi GTS. About the same price, much more room to negotiate as they are very very small scale and you are getting a decent 185hp motor and the ability to slap on a world renowned AWD(Suzuki is right there with Subaru and Mitsu for World Rally Cups) system to go with it.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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From: Minisoda
I was looking at the kizashi too the base price for a FWD is about 19k the only one worth getting is the AWD one but the base msrp is 25k its just not worth that much to me thats in the 2011 wrx territory already I dunno if you guys seen the new 11' wrx but thats a badass car looks very aggressive and has awd turbo power behind it.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: 818
i drive 08 gts, and have 55,000 miles on it. honestly, i would NOT recommend the lancer. sure it looks aggressive but its really sluggish and also road/wind noise is a killer. But my biggest problem is how thin the doors are. i have at least one dent on each door. i wish i would have gone with a Si or GTI.
BUT if you dont mind the cabin noise and thin doors its a fun car to drive
BUT if you dont mind the cabin noise and thin doors its a fun car to drive
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: 210
Yeah I meant wipers, but the auto spell thing on my phone is annoying. There is so much mis-information in this thread so let me clear up some things so when you goto a tuner store or a car show people are not looking at you like you're on drugs.
1. A CVT engine does not exist, CVT is a transmission. I don't know what else to say.
2. There is no such thing as a stock HID light on the lancer, and on top of it, there is no such thing as a HID halogen. This is a complete contradiction.
A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with a tungsten filament contained within an inert gas and a small amount of a halogen such as iodine or bromine. The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a chemical reaction known as a halogen cycle.
HID lighting does not have a filament but instead creates light by igniting an electrical discharge between two electrodes in an air tight tiny quartz capsule filled with xenon gas. HID lighting are also called Xenon lighting, referring to the gas inside the bulb.
HID lighting improves durability by 10 times as road vibrations can cause damage to halogen filament, but there is nothing to break inside HID bulb. These light sources also produce a blue-white light that is safer because it is closer to natural daylight.
The color temperature is more than 5000K compared to 2300K for halogen. The light output from a 35W HID Xenon lamp is 300% more light than a 55W halogen bulb. The HID Xenon system will also consume much less power from your vehicles electrical system and generate much less heat during operation
Now: You need to take into consideration the housing.
Projector VS Reflector
The optics to distribute the light in the desired pattern are designed into the reflector itself, rather than into the lens. Depending on the development tools and techniques in use, the reflector may be engineered from the start as a bespoke shape, or it may start as a parabola standing in for the size and shape of the completed package. In the latter case, the entire surface area is modified so as to produce individual segments of specifically calculated, complex contours. The shape of each segment is designed such that their cumulative effect produces the required light distribution pattern.
Modern reflectors are commonly made of compression-moulded or injection molded plastic, though glass and metal optic reflectors also exist. The reflective surface is vapour deposited aluminum with a clear overcoating to prevent the extremely thin aluminum from oxidizing. Extremely tight tolerances must be maintained in the design and production of complex-reflector headlamps.
Long story short, light bounces around and sends a beam forward illuminating the road. The GTS stock comes with Halogen reflector lighting, not HID reflector lighting. We will get to this in a second:
Projector lighting, does more or less the same as a reflector BUT, it does it inside a separate housing. With the lightbulb inside this housing, it then hits a lens which gives the light a more "solid" beam thus improving the quality of light.
What does use?
Lancer - No touring package = Halogen lights reflector housing:
If they have the package:
Ralliart it is the Recaro, GTS it is touring, etc etc:
You get HID Projector lights.
Here is the simple way to tell:
http://www.oznium.com/hid
See the pictures: Notice how the BMW top image creates a clean beam and the explorer below has light splashing everywhere? That's an easy way to tell at night. In daylight, it will look like the bottom. If your light housing does not look like that Acura below, it is without a doubt not a Mitsubishi HID system and this is concerning in two different ways.
1. If the car was pre owned, who installed the HIDs, Ballasts etc.
2. If they f*ed up your electrical system by splicing wires etc)it can happen) Mitsubishi does not have to cover the electrical system. But who knows, I would have to have the car in my face to tell.
Now, you CAN install HID lights in a reflector housing however it will never ever ever come from the factory. Why? Because in 90% of the states it is illegal.. The lights blind people, they can cause accidents etc. They do not produce a clean beam in most applications. I know in my state, NJ, it's about a $500 buck ticket. Other states may or may not enforce this. So in short if your light bulb housing does not look like the one above, and it has super bright lights I would check with your local agencies to determine if you run the risk of being ticketed. They will not care if Mitsubishi installed it or not. This is no different then tint: NJ dos not allow front tint, so from PA to NJ you can see cars come from the dealer with entirely different tint %'s. I hope this clears up things:
I saw your garage Mex24x and you have the stock Mitsubishi projectors which would indicate the touring package. You without a doubt do NOT want the HIDS in a reflector system. That is fail.
1. A CVT engine does not exist, CVT is a transmission. I don't know what else to say.
2. There is no such thing as a stock HID light on the lancer, and on top of it, there is no such thing as a HID halogen. This is a complete contradiction.
A halogen lamp is an incandescent lamp with a tungsten filament contained within an inert gas and a small amount of a halogen such as iodine or bromine. The combination of the halogen gas and the tungsten filament produces a chemical reaction known as a halogen cycle.
HID lighting does not have a filament but instead creates light by igniting an electrical discharge between two electrodes in an air tight tiny quartz capsule filled with xenon gas. HID lighting are also called Xenon lighting, referring to the gas inside the bulb.
HID lighting improves durability by 10 times as road vibrations can cause damage to halogen filament, but there is nothing to break inside HID bulb. These light sources also produce a blue-white light that is safer because it is closer to natural daylight.
The color temperature is more than 5000K compared to 2300K for halogen. The light output from a 35W HID Xenon lamp is 300% more light than a 55W halogen bulb. The HID Xenon system will also consume much less power from your vehicles electrical system and generate much less heat during operation
Now: You need to take into consideration the housing.
Projector VS Reflector
The optics to distribute the light in the desired pattern are designed into the reflector itself, rather than into the lens. Depending on the development tools and techniques in use, the reflector may be engineered from the start as a bespoke shape, or it may start as a parabola standing in for the size and shape of the completed package. In the latter case, the entire surface area is modified so as to produce individual segments of specifically calculated, complex contours. The shape of each segment is designed such that their cumulative effect produces the required light distribution pattern.
Modern reflectors are commonly made of compression-moulded or injection molded plastic, though glass and metal optic reflectors also exist. The reflective surface is vapour deposited aluminum with a clear overcoating to prevent the extremely thin aluminum from oxidizing. Extremely tight tolerances must be maintained in the design and production of complex-reflector headlamps.
Long story short, light bounces around and sends a beam forward illuminating the road. The GTS stock comes with Halogen reflector lighting, not HID reflector lighting. We will get to this in a second:
Projector lighting, does more or less the same as a reflector BUT, it does it inside a separate housing. With the lightbulb inside this housing, it then hits a lens which gives the light a more "solid" beam thus improving the quality of light.
What does
use?Lancer - No touring package = Halogen lights reflector housing:
If they have the package:
Ralliart it is the Recaro, GTS it is touring, etc etc:
You get HID Projector lights.
Here is the simple way to tell:
http://www.oznium.com/hid
See the pictures: Notice how the BMW top image creates a clean beam and the explorer below has light splashing everywhere? That's an easy way to tell at night. In daylight, it will look like the bottom. If your light housing does not look like that Acura below, it is without a doubt not a Mitsubishi HID system and this is concerning in two different ways.
1. If the car was pre owned, who installed the HIDs, Ballasts etc.
2. If they f*ed up your electrical system by splicing wires etc)it can happen) Mitsubishi does not have to cover the electrical system. But who knows, I would have to have the car in my face to tell.
Now, you CAN install HID lights in a reflector housing however it will never ever ever come from the factory. Why? Because in 90% of the states it is illegal.. The lights blind people, they can cause accidents etc. They do not produce a clean beam in most applications. I know in my state, NJ, it's about a $500 buck ticket. Other states may or may not enforce this. So in short if your light bulb housing does not look like the one above, and it has super bright lights I would check with your local agencies to determine if you run the risk of being ticketed. They will not care if Mitsubishi installed it or not. This is no different then tint: NJ dos not allow front tint, so from PA to NJ you can see cars come from the dealer with entirely different tint %'s. I hope this clears up things:
I saw your garage Mex24x and you have the stock Mitsubishi projectors which would indicate the touring package. You without a doubt do NOT want the HIDS in a reflector system. That is fail.
Here is what my headlight looks like during the day...
That look's like a HID light with a halogen lens around it if you ask me or the other 2 friend's of mine who sell and work at a EVO/Mitsubishi/Subaru performance shop
What other kind of headlight's,when cold like this winter,start off blue but after being warmed up after a few second's start turning white. That sound's like a 4k HID to me and sound's like an HID warming up but hey I've only been doing HID's for 7 years.
I understand what your saying about Lancer's not coming stock with HID's but I'll even show you the sticker on the inside of the door that even tell's you what H.I.D stand's for. Don't know why your not understanding that NEWER Lancer's are starting to come with better features compared to the 2006 model's,which I use to own.
If your going to get touring GTS I recommed getting the Ralliart art instead, its only 2,000 to3,000 more then Gts touring, its faster then the Lexus is350 in 1/4 and 0-60 in peformance, can pretty much get them for 25 or less otd new, The 2010 Lancer gts manual out peformances the 2009 TSX, and 2011 Scion tc in all 0-100 and 1/4 mile test even with 20 to 40 Hp less the Lancer GTS was still faster then those two cars, sources from "Edmund" Car Reviews.
A Ralliart with Recaro package 25k OTD? I doubt it. The car base is 28k, add the 3k touring package and T&T&T and you are looking at about 34k sticker depending on your sales taxes. Getting that car for 25k is what, a 26% off sticker? Not likely unless it is a leftover from a previous year. Using your same logic, one could get the GTS touring for 23k sticker with the package, at a 26% dip, thats 17,000. This does not take into consideration the shorter warranty, the premium fuel, higher insurance, and higher maintenance one assumes when buying a ralliart. In all honesty if you are looking to stay within the same range but don't like the GTS lancer due to it moving like a scalded dog, I would recommend the Suzuki Kizashi GTS. About the same price, much more room to negotiate as they are very very small scale and you are getting a decent 185hp motor and the ability to slap on a world renowned AWD(Suzuki is right there with Subaru and Mitsu for World Rally Cups) system to go with it.
Last edited by Mex24x; Dec 10, 2010 at 08:51 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 63
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Here's my 2 cents for ya. I've always been a rice rocket fan, and the 08+ lancers just look great and fit my taste. So automatically i went for the looks first. Then i started looking at specs, I didnt want any es or ds cause that's just not sporty enough. I wanted a evo a ralliart but wasn't rich enough. So i was automatically stuck with the GTS. I live in frisco so i bought the CVT, Parking on 60 degree hills is stupid and i admit i dont want to be parking everyday after work on a stupid hill like that on a 5spd. Car is not super economical but enough to sit in the middle of sporty and economical. so basically, with its spec, it is good enough gallons/mile wise.
Lancer es ds and gts looks beasty. They look like they can beat any mother loving jap cars out there at the same level, but it wont, especially a cvt. So when a scary asian looking guy sitting in a civic si stare you down stepping on the throttle making that gay rice noise looking for a race. Ignore him or you will get mad at yourself for losing (yes me.) After losing countless times on stretches, i sort of got sick of this car. (its suppose to be semi sporty man.) I decided to mod it and this is the forums i got my wisdom and knowledge from. Slap on bolt on mods first like intake, timing controller, sprint booster, exhaust, and pulley. That will definitely give you way better throttle response either in manual or auto, and add a bit of oomth and noise for your car (the gts sounds like some old man took a long deep breath and let out a lazy sounding low uhhhhhhhh sound) It also adds about 5-10 hp. Lower your car, get some springs. Dont get coilcovers, not worth it and too expansive. get some nice light weight hood, rims. and you are set to go.
So my conclusion will be something like this. The car is not built for superness, however it looks like one, and can feel like one. My car is moody, sometimes it runs like a beast, sometimes like a baby. Either way, i still love it. I slapped on all the mods i mentioned and some other small stuff like interior blue led light, HID lights, rims, etc. so, get ready for 27-31 mpg on that car either high way or city, depends really. Spend 1000 bucks on bolt on mods, (please dont buy everything on rrm, they will rip you naked and rape you inside out with their price.).
I LOVE MY CAR, YOU WOULD TOOOO!!!!!!!!!! GO GTS OR DIE TRYING. after 100k, SCREW THE WARRANTY AND SLAP ON A TURBO or SUPER CHARGE IT! Vroooooooooooooom, your lancer gts just mind F**KED some kid and burnt him hard.
hope you like my stupid review.
PEACE
Lancer es ds and gts looks beasty. They look like they can beat any mother loving jap cars out there at the same level, but it wont, especially a cvt. So when a scary asian looking guy sitting in a civic si stare you down stepping on the throttle making that gay rice noise looking for a race. Ignore him or you will get mad at yourself for losing (yes me.) After losing countless times on stretches, i sort of got sick of this car. (its suppose to be semi sporty man.) I decided to mod it and this is the forums i got my wisdom and knowledge from. Slap on bolt on mods first like intake, timing controller, sprint booster, exhaust, and pulley. That will definitely give you way better throttle response either in manual or auto, and add a bit of oomth and noise for your car (the gts sounds like some old man took a long deep breath and let out a lazy sounding low uhhhhhhhh sound) It also adds about 5-10 hp. Lower your car, get some springs. Dont get coilcovers, not worth it and too expansive. get some nice light weight hood, rims. and you are set to go.
So my conclusion will be something like this. The car is not built for superness, however it looks like one, and can feel like one. My car is moody, sometimes it runs like a beast, sometimes like a baby. Either way, i still love it. I slapped on all the mods i mentioned and some other small stuff like interior blue led light, HID lights, rims, etc. so, get ready for 27-31 mpg on that car either high way or city, depends really. Spend 1000 bucks on bolt on mods, (please dont buy everything on rrm, they will rip you naked and rape you inside out with their price.).
I LOVE MY CAR, YOU WOULD TOOOO!!!!!!!!!! GO GTS OR DIE TRYING. after 100k, SCREW THE WARRANTY AND SLAP ON A TURBO or SUPER CHARGE IT! Vroooooooooooooom, your lancer gts just mind F**KED some kid and burnt him hard.
hope you like my stupid review.
PEACE
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Minisoda
I'm new to lancers not modding, the gts lancer is in my price/hp/mpg range so that's why I'm considering this car plus I would never put a light weight pully on any of my cars you have to know how an engine works top to bottom before you start throwing mods at it.