So what- who here has a factory evo that pulls next to vettes at lights and gives them the finger?? Oh wait, nevermind

 

The track Top Gear uses is a pretty low speed affair. Good test of handling and carrying speed through turns; it's not very challenging on brakes nor is it demanding a lot of power.

 

Car and Driver are a bunch of editors driving cars with highly subjective feedback.

They are not professional racers, or instructors.. and it's no surprise that they are pushing american cars as the winners to appease to low selling GM and Ford cars.

I'm glad to see that Motor Trend actually got a racer to test some cars at Laguna Seca, take a look:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/1...t_handling_car

Read the feedback and look at the stats, this is more objective feedback and reflects what a proper handling car should behave and be reviewed.

Steve

 

The MT article far exceeded my expectations of an obj/subj evaluation. Most past attempts by magazines to categorize a vehicle's behavior ignored things that vehicle dynamics engineers live and die by. I had some very minor quibbles with MT's methodology, but for the most part it's backed by SAE procedures and years of refinement.

That said, I don't recall anything in the article that entirely validates your point of view. Their driver at Laguna Seca praised the Z06's steering, though he had some complaints about how the chassis and suspension were sorted (or not, as the case may be). Like many other high power FR cars, the Z06 has more power than modern rubber can apply, though it would have been interesting to shod it in Pilot Sport Cups like the GT3 had and see how it fared. The area where the Z06 got hammered was the subjective street loop, which is really no different than what C&D did. Subjective evaluations are very hard to process without knowing the evaluators likes/dislikes, driving ability & style, and other such factors. It is not hard to find vastly differing opinions on the same car driven on the same road. One man's bumpy ride is another man's good road feel.

As for pandering to GM and Ford... that's long been Motor Trend's hallmark, not Car & Drivers. C&D has ragged on crappy American cars more than any other American car mag.

Also, if you compare last year's LL results to this year's, you could surmise that the 911 GT3 would have been a bit faster than the Z06 if it was re-run this year - essentially matching what MT did at Laguna Seca. It boils down to two different ways of going fast. The only person who can really decide which is better, or whether the 911 GT3 is worth $50k more, is the person with the money.

 

There's no doubt that the Z06 does perform well - this has been proven already.

My point is that basing a car's performance and stamina on magazines is dubious at best.

I would rather see what racers, club racers, A-class drivers, instructors are saying about the cars at the track/autox and how they are doing.

 

Here you go High_PSI. This is a really really rough estimate of how fast the FQ400 Top Gear tested would be in the Car and Drivers Test.

(Z06) (FQ400)
1:22.4 vs 1:24.8 = 82.4sec vs 84.8 secs = 2.83%

2:58.2 = 178.2 + (178.2*.0283)= 183.2secs = 3:05.4

Class, Model............ Lap Time

LL3, Corvette Z06...... 2:58.2
LL4, Ford GT............... 3:00.7
LL3, Viper SRT10........ 3:01.6
LL3, 911 GT3.............. 3:01.8
LL2, Corvette Z51...... 3:03.6
Lotus Exige S 3:04.5
LL3, Audi R8................ 3:04.6
FQ400.........................3:05.4
LL4, 911 Turbo........... 3:05.8
LL2, Shelby GT500...... 3:05.9
LL2, Lotus Elise.......... 3:09.2
LL2, Cayman S........... 3:09.5

LL3, BMW M6............. 3:10.0
LL2, BMW 335i........... 3:10.5
LL3, Audi RS4............ 3:11.2
LL2, BMW Z4M........... 3:11.7
LL1, 350z................... 3:12.5
LL1, Mitsu Evo............ 3:13.5
LL1, Solstice GXP........ 3:15.7
LL1, MS 3.................... 3:16.0
LL2, Charger SRT8..... 3:18.2
LL1, Mazda RX8.......... 3:19.0

LL1, Cobalt SS............ 3:20.6
LL1, Mini S.................. 3:22.9
LL1, VW GTI............... 3:25.1
LL1, Civic Si................ 3:26.5
LL1, Mazda MX5......... 3:29.3

 

I agree with you on the magazines. Some are baised towards imports and some domestics. I personally beleive they go with whomever spends more $$ on adds with them who gets the most support.

As a 07 Z06 owner and someone who has driven the three P-cars , 911S, 977TT and the GT3 and someone who could have bought anyone of them I choose the Z06 over the others for a number of reasons including DD, comfort and looks but most of all for performace. I don't think you understand that the Z is flat out faster than all the three P-cars mentioned above and with R compound tires on, it would put more distance on the GT 3. I can understand your loyalty to imports as you seem sold on the " luxury brand marketing image that has been created and surrounds the Porsche name. I think that the quality has gone down since the 70's - 80's cars and people that really know the brand well all know that is true. They need to create a new platform...they have gotten a lot out of the rear -engine car, won a ton of races and should be very proud of their history and how far they took the original design too...but I think they are working on a new platform and I say it is about time.

There are many people over on the Corvetteforums that own both cars plus other high $$ brands and you should wander over and listen to what people who own, race and daily drive these cars have to say and maybe you'll get a new outlook on how things are in the real world right from the horses mouth. In fact there is a guy over ther that got his GT3 and he does a lot of club racing and he had a buddy of his that also club races his Z06 flim him around the track and like the GT3owner said although the GT3 is a wonderful car on the track, Mike the owner of the Z could pretty much pass me coming out of a turn on the straights at will.

I will say that the GT3 is easier to drive faster than the Z06 for the unexperienced driver. Kind of like the Evo the car does a lot of the work for you. Learn how to drive the Z close to it's limits and it's a whole different world. I'm going out to Spring Mountian Driving school this summer and I can't wait to learn how to get even more out of the Z.....all I can say is it puts a smile on my face each time I drive it and it keeps growing on me as time goes on. That is the sign of a great car.

 

Faster or not, fit and finish and quality of built Materials alone the Porshe has MUCH better quality then the Z06.

Not To Mention that the Z06 has a 100 HP advantage on the GT3 and that they are so close speaks alot. The next step up would be the upcomming GT2 which I believe to be the utimate.

I am so ashamed of the 911T, WTF happened with that car?

 

But that is to be expected considering you are paying ~$50,000 more for a car that doesn't perform as well. The Z51 'Vette cost nearly $90,000 less than the P-cars and it put up similar track numbers......on runflat tires.

Bottom line. The Z06 is the ultimate bang-for-the-buck car on this planet.

Needless to say, thinking about what the 650hp "Blue Devil" will be like has me shaking in my boots.

 

It all depends on WHICH Magazine you read. If you read this comparison, well the Vette is really exposed.

Much more technical as well, the MR does ok too, but the GT3 just OWNS.

 

just read this article. too... i wonder how the IX would doon such event stock

 

Again I would have agreed with you on fit an finish if it were a few years ago but I have to tell you with the Z06 and the C6 GM has steped it up a notch or two in quality and I don't think the difference justifys the $$ more that a Porshce commands.

Plus I don't like fancy interiors and a lot of du-dads and that's what the Z06's is like simple and plain just the way I like m.

Yes the GT3 is close but it is pretty much a track car and does not make a good daily driver...and it's another 25 -35k more. BTW Top end is not close to the Z's. Closer to the 08C6.

I wish I could give rides in the Z06 to a lot of people that have a bad image of the Vette and how it is made and how it runs...etc..etc. I think thats all it would take for most to understand what a performance bargin these 2 cars are.

What makes you so ashamed of the 911T ? You do mean Twin turbo right?

If your talking about the TT, I think it is a great car, handles great, is a better DD than the GT3.

Funny you mention the GT2. Had a chance to sit in one today! A shop I go to is working on it. Wow now that is just a pure race car right from the factory. Roll cage, harness. It wasn't easy geting in or out of it and I would not recomend taking your girl out on a date in it. I thought I had some wide as* tires on the back of the Z but those suckers on the GT2 seemed like they were 2inches wider

The upcoming one should be a real beast!

 

I agree and you bring up good points comparing the perfromance vs the $$'s

The SS/Blue Devil whatever they are going to call it will be in a class of it's own. Again another bang for the buck supercar that will be hanging out with Enzo's and Carrera GT's and such for a fraction of there cost. I think GM is now saying 700hp.At least thats the news over on Corvette forums but we will have to wait and see. I put my name on the list for one but I don't know on this one it's going to be hard to get one. I'm 3rd on the list at my dealer

 

I thought the Evo would out handle and beat the 350Z ..um. Just doesn't seem right.

 

Slam the door in the Vette and then slam the door in a Porsche, that'll let you know what kinda quality there is. Material and fit and finish alone, Ze germans own Americans in Engineering. Look at the Veyron, German, so are the Lambos, even that pig of a car Bentle GT does over 200MPH with a German W12.

The Vette is the Supercar bargan, but hardly polished or even close in terms of fit and finish. It does go like stink though, hard to argue with 7 liters.