Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
I remember when I first bought my IX and everyone was trying to say the VIIIs were better because of this and that. We later found out that both were good but just responded to different mods differently. In any case, I think the X is going to put up some really great numbers in the engine department but its not going to be its forte... The X is all about the handling and S-AWC 
The X doesn't give more whp mod-for-mod except in the case of a boost controller and intake. It's a known fact that the X has very poor AFRs and leaning them out will yield a tremendous amount of power. THAT is the advantage it has over the VIII/IX. However, once you've gotten that first 45whp from the leaning out - it responds to mods like any other turbo. Look at the AMS log. Each mod only gave about 10-15whp after the initial 45whp increase. Another example is when Shiv finished tuning the car and started putting exhaust on it. It only yielded average whp increases for a catback and highflo cat.
The X is not a "God of modifications." Period. A 2JZ motor responds to mods better.
Last edited by BOOSTEZ; Feb 17, 2008 at 08:40 PM.
Thanks BOOSTZ,
I started second guessing myself, thinking I was maybe wrong on my logic, but you backed it up perfectly.
Why do people have to bash us or anyone that doesn't join their parade, when were just trying to help them better understand what they are reading.
I started second guessing myself, thinking I was maybe wrong on my logic, but you backed it up perfectly.
Why do people have to bash us or anyone that doesn't join their parade, when were just trying to help them better understand what they are reading.
No. I just gave up on arguing about this whp increase since the logic is flawed.
The X doesn't give more whp mod-for-mod except in the case of a boost controller and intake. It's a known fact that the X has very poor AFRs and leaning them out will yield a tremendous amount of power. THAT is the advantage it has over the VIII/IX. However, once you've gotten that first 45whp from the leaning out - it responds to mods like any other turbo. Look at the AMS log. Each mod only gave about 10-15whp after the initial 45whp increase. Another example is when Shiv finished tuning the car and started putting exhaust on it. It only yielded average whp increases for a catback and highflo cat.
The X is not a "God of modifications." Period. A 2JZ motor responds to mods better.
The X doesn't give more whp mod-for-mod except in the case of a boost controller and intake. It's a known fact that the X has very poor AFRs and leaning them out will yield a tremendous amount of power. THAT is the advantage it has over the VIII/IX. However, once you've gotten that first 45whp from the leaning out - it responds to mods like any other turbo. Look at the AMS log. Each mod only gave about 10-15whp after the initial 45whp increase. Another example is when Shiv finished tuning the car and started putting exhaust on it. It only yielded average whp increases for a catback and highflo cat.
The X is not a "God of modifications." Period. A 2JZ motor responds to mods better.
And Meltdown, the reason we are a bit more harsh about this topic is because it is more or less a topic beaten to death
, but this thread is still here, so I guess the horse isn't completely dead yet. carry onnnn...
I hadn't seen the ealier threads till after the fact.
I really do think the X is a great car as a whole and will contiue to give the Evo name a great reputation.
Ok I read Part II and lets look at the quote a little more in full:
Dyno Details:
Stock X with 3" cat and 3" cat-back
Tuned by a modified BMW PROcede computer
91oct
On the Mustang Dyno at FFTEC.
I'll post up the graphs later tonight but for now, here are the results:
WHP: 297-302whp
Torque: 310-315lbft
This is up considerably from when the car was running the stock exhaust. You can see those results here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=322616
These new results are about as good as the absolute BEST results we've ever got out of a Evo IX running a full catless exhaust (3" dp, 3" test pipe, 3" cat-back). But we're talking about the top 3-5%. Most IXs with full catless exhaust usually fall in the 285-290whp range.
It is much stronger than a similarly modified IX (which would only make 270-275whp/290-300lbft with a 3" cat and 3" catback).
---
Let's mainly look at the last part where they say a IX would only make 270-275 with similar mods, but then on their web site that have this dyno sheet:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/e...vs_reflash.jpg
270whp on a stock IX with just a reflash.....doesn't really match what they said about the IX when they were comparing it to the X.
Dyno Details:
Stock X with 3" cat and 3" cat-back
Tuned by a modified BMW PROcede computer
91oct
On the Mustang Dyno at FFTEC.
I'll post up the graphs later tonight but for now, here are the results:
WHP: 297-302whp
Torque: 310-315lbft
This is up considerably from when the car was running the stock exhaust. You can see those results here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=322616
These new results are about as good as the absolute BEST results we've ever got out of a Evo IX running a full catless exhaust (3" dp, 3" test pipe, 3" cat-back). But we're talking about the top 3-5%. Most IXs with full catless exhaust usually fall in the 285-290whp range.
It is much stronger than a similarly modified IX (which would only make 270-275whp/290-300lbft with a 3" cat and 3" catback).
---
Let's mainly look at the last part where they say a IX would only make 270-275 with similar mods, but then on their web site that have this dyno sheet:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/e...vs_reflash.jpg
270whp on a stock IX with just a reflash.....doesn't really match what they said about the IX when they were comparing it to the X.
I cant believe you guys are still arguing this crap. The X ECU is so much more advanced then then the previous two Evo's, and because of this, it may make it a tuners dream car. However, it could work in the opposite direction too, depending on if it uses shadow maps for back ups etc.
The motor comparison is moot imho. The new motor is designed more for low end torque and acceleration, where as the old 4G was designed for mid to top range. Because of this, the X is a completely different car, and delivers a pretty radical change in the driving style. This car is a lot more fun to drive around town and on the highway then the VIII was for me. No longer do you have to be in that 3.5 to 4k range to feel that torque. Now you can do it at 2.5k. And the new MIVEC system is pretty awesome. The only thing thats a bummer is that you can really feel this car pulling timing since it has so much control.
The X is in a whole different category of car now. The refinements alone reflect this, and as much as I thought I may miss my VIII, I know realize I made the right choice. However, I made the right choice for me. Some people like riding in a car that makes you feel like your in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert. I know I did when I was younger
The motor comparison is moot imho. The new motor is designed more for low end torque and acceleration, where as the old 4G was designed for mid to top range. Because of this, the X is a completely different car, and delivers a pretty radical change in the driving style. This car is a lot more fun to drive around town and on the highway then the VIII was for me. No longer do you have to be in that 3.5 to 4k range to feel that torque. Now you can do it at 2.5k. And the new MIVEC system is pretty awesome. The only thing thats a bummer is that you can really feel this car pulling timing since it has so much control.
The X is in a whole different category of car now. The refinements alone reflect this, and as much as I thought I may miss my VIII, I know realize I made the right choice. However, I made the right choice for me. Some people like riding in a car that makes you feel like your in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert. I know I did when I was younger
I cant believe you guys are still arguing this crap. The X ECU is so much more advanced then then the previous two Evo's, and because of this, it may make it a tuners dream car. However, it could work in the opposite direction too, depending on if it uses shadow maps for back ups etc.
The motor comparison is moot imho. The new motor is designed more for low end torque and acceleration, where as the old 4G was designed for mid to top range. Because of this, the X is a completely different car, and delivers a pretty radical change in the driving style. This car is a lot more fun to drive around town and on the highway then the VIII was for me. No longer do you have to be in that 3.5 to 4k range to feel that torque. Now you can do it at 2.5k. And the new MIVEC system is pretty awesome. The only thing thats a bummer is that you can really feel this car pulling timing since it has so much control.
The X is in a whole different category of car now. The refinements alone reflect this, and as much as I thought I may miss my VIII, I know realize I made the right choice. However, I made the right choice for me. Some people like riding in a car that makes you feel like your in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert. I know I did when I was younger
The motor comparison is moot imho. The new motor is designed more for low end torque and acceleration, where as the old 4G was designed for mid to top range. Because of this, the X is a completely different car, and delivers a pretty radical change in the driving style. This car is a lot more fun to drive around town and on the highway then the VIII was for me. No longer do you have to be in that 3.5 to 4k range to feel that torque. Now you can do it at 2.5k. And the new MIVEC system is pretty awesome. The only thing thats a bummer is that you can really feel this car pulling timing since it has so much control.
The X is in a whole different category of car now. The refinements alone reflect this, and as much as I thought I may miss my VIII, I know realize I made the right choice. However, I made the right choice for me. Some people like riding in a car that makes you feel like your in a mosh pit at a Slayer concert. I know I did when I was younger
However, I'm quite sure that the X doesn't come anywhere close to the torque "feel" in my car. Yes, my car has a hellava lot of timing but if the engine is optimized, then it's optimized (and this is without the meth being sprayed). True, my torque isn't anywhere strong in the low 2,500 rpm range, but I can barely even tell when the car is in the 3.5-4k range anyway (which is where I switch gears).
I guess your point would be VERY valid when talking about a stock VIII or IX, but most of the old gen cars aren't stock anymore and the drivability is definitely there.
Just my 2 cents..
Last edited by BOOSTEZ; Feb 18, 2008 at 02:04 PM.
l8r)
I'm not sure I agree with this. The stock 4g63 on my VIII was a dog up top, too. AFAIK, all Evos have been designed for rally competition where, due to restrictions imposed by sanctioning bodies, good mid-range power is what you want. IMO, the new motor is very much in line with what Evos (and similar rally cars) are about. However, better minds than me will have to figure out if the combination of direct-acting valves and no balance shafts will allow the new engine to ultimately rev higher, easier than the old iron anvil.
l8r)
l8r)
I can certainly tell you from my Auto-X experiences, that the X is going to be a much better car. Part of the challenge with Auto-X was keeping the car in its power band. Alot of times you would sacrifice speed, to keep the turbo spinning for the next set of turns. With the X, I don't believe this will be an issue. Especially with the shorter gears. The car is definitely not geared for the 1/4 anymore though. I believe with the addition of power, we will be cursed with a needed 5th gear shift. Especially if you will be driving to maximize your power band. I have already found that you need to shift before 7k to maximize your acceleration, which I found surprising. Christ, in my VIII, I would go all the way up to 7500 before thinking of shifting. Now, thats just a waste of time.
Boostez,
My point is definitely comparing stock to stock. Any other comparison is unfair. My VIII had a wicked 1.15g pull at 3.5k, something I doubt I will see anytime soon on the X. But that cant be determined until we have equivalent setups, including turbo etc.
One thing is for sure. Each car needs to be setup utilizing its strengths, and right now we are just starting to discover what the strengths of the car is. The 4G cars have been exploited for over 10 years, and have been fully developed to their max. We can all only hope that the strength of the 4B11 is at least equivalent to old iron hide, but only time will tell that story. Either way, the entire line of Evo's have been amazing, but I still think the VI was the best ever.
What makes you guys think the new motor is designed more for low end power and the 4G is designed for top end power? You know nothing about the flow characteristics of the new head and it has a shorter stroke.
Hell I thought a lot of you used to be Honda guys and knew what top end power really was
Hell I thought a lot of you used to be Honda guys and knew what top end power really was