Results without a sanctioning body governing per your own link. Not same day, same driver, and definitely unknown car configuration, I don't care what Honda "claims". Do you really believe the CTR would beat an 08 GT-R by seconds with the same driver?

Man, this is like Bro-Balt SS all over again.

 

because it would be faster.

 

faster than a GTR? isn't the slowest offical GTR 'ring time in the 7:30's? by slowest I mean slowest model since the GTR got upgraded every year along with special track models and stuff

I don't think its a current giant killer, but it's certainly a giant killer of the past 2-5 years

although M4 is kind of a giant... and I'm sure there are tracks where the M4 would be faster. but just the fact that the CTR at half the price (and fwd) is a legitimate competitor when it comes to track times is a win...

 

I have never said anything about a GT-R. You are trying to impose unrealistic test conditions (same day, same driver, etc.). I prefer to says its on the manufacturer to wait for ideal weather conditions and bring the best driver they can.

Video confirmation along with manufacturer press release is about as official as it gets.

Believe what you will. But the evidence points to CTR being a giant killer. The list of "performance" cars that it beat around the ring is staggering.

But maybe all those manufacturers had bad drivers, or bad weather, or bad luck

 

No problems with this at all.

 

Or not a ringer car, which is the case here. There's nothing official with nobody officiating. Both the links you provided agree with that.

Roll your eyes all you want, a production CTR world get trounced by an M4 round the Ring in an actual comparison run.

 

ok, so I get the different day different driver thing... but trounced? based on those different day different driver times, it'd be pretty close

 

What is your support for this statement? Or is this just your opinion?

Evidence points to the contrary

95. BMW M4 7:52.00 157 '14 431 / 1497 Horst von Saurma

P.S. Horst von Saurma is a very well respected Nürburgring driver

 

I think so due to the massive power:weight difference and those long straights.

I really hope we get the car here in the states! It would be awesome to see how it does in something like Car & Driver's Lightning Lap. Honda has jumped the shark horribly in the U.S. lately, and bringing a one off track special could start the healing process to gain enthusiasts attention again.

 

If I came off as disrespectful before, I apologize.
The power:weight difference is big. I've never seen anything overcome something that vast on a very fast track.

 

so basically you're saying you think honda cheated... everyone was saying the same thing when the GTR came out

 

i agree. the Civic has slowly become a mid-size family car, instead of the small & light-weight economy vehicle that just so happened to handle really, really well.

but that's industry. customers expect each model to be bigger, better, and have more options. all cars grow fat. we now have big Minis and Fiats.

then the manufacturer comes out with an all-new small car.. again..and it slowly gets fat... again LOL.

have you noticed how BIG the Accord is now?

 

Well we will likely never see an M4 vs. CTR show down as they are not really competitors of each other. The fact that they are even mentioned in the same conversation means that the CTR can punch well above its weight class.

I will wager that the CTR will end up being the fastest (stock vs. stock) of the upcoming crop of sub 40k sports cars.

 

With no official governance, I certainly wouldn't call it cheating. I would say they utilize absolutely everything imaginable to drop that time, since Ring times are so much hype and marketing. Things that a production car won't have and couldn't dream of matching.

Here's what I'm talking about with the GT-R:

Somebody drove those cars to those times. But they're clearly not all measuring with the same yardstick. Nobody in their right mind thinks a CTR could best those cars on this track in an identical test.

Lightning Lap doesn't care. They won't be in the same class, but it's on a big track- V.I.R., and they'll run them on the same day if we get a CTR. Only one time did they let a professional driver that was a cut above everyone else in Lightning Lap, and everyone cried foul.

Here we agree. The only threat that is coming to mind is the Focus RS. It will have to be a flying hot lap for the CTR, though.

 

so basically you do think they're cheating. only thing I think they're cheating with is the cage... which doesn't make all that much difference... sure a "real production" can be slower, but I don't think its gonna be something like 20 seconds slower... maybe like 2-7; which in my mind isn't all that much on something as long as the 'ring...

that 7:54 time was a Porsche test... and they have their own agenda... several other independent establishments tested the GT-R and they all went faster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._manufacturers
the next slowest for the GT-R is a 7:43


If it comes to the US, it'll also be part of Motor Trends best handling car test. they usually do that at Laguna Seca with Randy Pobst driving. I'm looking forward to that more than lightning lap... Laguna Seca is also a pretty high speed track and a pro is always more consistent getting the best times out of all cars. and VIR is even more fast car friendly than the 'ring in my opinion.

VIR is shorter and smoother, and has a better straights to corners ratio for fast cars than the 'ring. the 'ring is more like a mountain road, its bumpy, its very long, so its hard to remember even for pro drivers... which is another reason why in my book the CTR being this fast there isn't as much of a surprise to me as it is to you