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Comprehensive Evo STU prep thread?

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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 11:09 AM
  #586  
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From: Michigan
Originally Posted by CDeutsch
YES! We'll be there! Assuming I get the car put back together properly. Stupid bushings and sway bars. I already made one $260 mistake by wrecking my driver's front control arm trying to press out the bushing.
Ha,ha, a shop broke my drivers side rear upper A-arm squeezing in a bushing 3-wks ago. $230 out of my pocket. We need one more to have a shot at the tire money. Maybe talk one of the STX drivers into bumping up a class for a beer or two.

Dave
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 11:25 AM
  #587  
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Originally Posted by evo8dad
What I hate about STU is that being a '03 owner I am without a torsen LSD, ACD and MIVEC. The IXs have a significant advantage because of this.

This is where NASA is better. There update rules are way better in that you can pick and choose what you want to update from year to year, so I could add an OEM LSD and MIVEC system if I chose to, albeit with a points penatly.
I agree and is one of my biggest complaints with the STU rules. NASA knows that '03s should be ranked lower, that's why it starts off in TTC and allows you to add components that would equalize the differences. Honestly *I* see no reason what so ever that a front LSD shouldn't be allowed in STU. Those who oppose the addition are only looking to handicap the competition to increase their chances of winning. "Mitsubishi went cheap on the '03, oh well you're SOL... trade up or go to BSP". The current reasoning from SEB is probably the same as why clutches aren't allowed in ST* classes and that is, changing out a front LSD isn't something people can 'easily' do.

What I've come to realize is that, if you do become a really good driver and you have national aspirations, you'll have a better shot if you just buy the car (or co-drive the car) for the class... Honda S2000 in A Stock, 2005+ Mini Cooper S in G Stock, Mini Cooper in H Stock and probably numerous other examples.
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 12:06 PM
  #588  
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I'm looking for a few things to determine spring rates that I haven't been able to find. Does anyone know the motion ratio of an VIII and the unsprung weight (obvioulsy not taken into account differen wheels/tires but, those weights are easily obtained)? I could do the measurements but, thought I'd check before I went through all that.
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 01:17 PM
  #589  
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I really like the way my car is handling right now with the open front differential but I would like to but an RS diff or an aftermarket diff in down the road just because of the piece of mind of not worrying about blowing up the transfer case. Of course by the time that happens I'll be ready to jump into BSP. I do agree that allowing front and rear LSD's regardless of the make and model of the car would make sense, but then again, this is the SCCA we're talking about
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 02:27 PM
  #590  
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Anybody see the Fastrack posted today? This was published for member comment:
Add new 14.10E, re-letter subsequent sections accordingly:
“E. Catalytic converters may be replaced by aftermarket units. Replacements must: 1) be certified for use in that vehicle application
by the manufacturer or reconditioner, 2) bear correct EPA-mandated labeling, 3) be of the OE quantity and type (i.e. oxidation,
three-way, etc.) and 4) be used in the same location(s) as the OE converter(s). This does allow for high performance replacements,
provided they meet all restrictions herein.”
NOTE: This proposal is in response to member input from STS/STS2 competitors on the recent Stock category proposal to limit
catalytic converter replacement to OE-only, and to continuing questions regarding legality of OE-equivalent aftermarket cats. The
proposal meets two primary tenets of the Street Touring category by allowing a common street tuner performance mod (i.e. hiflow
cats) while maintaining emissions legality, as defined by the EPA. For reference, the EPA regulations are summarized in the
document labeled “What You Should Know About Using, Installing, or Buying Aftermarket Catalytic Converters” which can currently
be found at .
Thoughts? As a recent purchaser of the STU-spec Richard Jung high flow cat, I'm hoping this doesn't go through.
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:15 PM
  #591  
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I'm glad I have a Random Tech HFC that meets the Federal EPA and CARB requirements. Unless there is paper work that shows the STU-spec Richard Jung HFC passes Federal EPA and CARB, it might become illegal to run such a HFC in STU.

The one that I'm most happy about is the removal of AC rule which is not allowed anymore. Goes against the philosophy of the class anyways, IMHO.
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 03:28 PM
  #592  
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted by Caffeine Slug
Thoughts? As a recent purchaser of the STU-spec Richard Jung high flow cat, I'm hoping this doesn't go through.
My understanding from comments on SCCA forum was that the fast track and cat-issue was only going to effect STS and STS2 since 14.12 part 6 for STX/STU already states:

High flow catalytic converters are allowed, but must attach
within six inches of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters
may be replaced by a single unit. The inlet of the single replacement
converter may be located no further downstream than 6"
along the piping flow path from the original exit of the final OE
converter.
Right now STS and STS2 potentially still fall under the stock class cat rules.
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Old Jun 20, 2007 | 11:35 PM
  #593  
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This has more to do with the original choice in car to run for STU, but how many of you are running the RS and have compared it to an ABS Evo? Stopping my car is a chore and I'm wondering if Mitsu made the incorrect choice in removing ABS. I have to be very sure that my wheels are straight when I try and stop or I go spinning through the cones (or just straight through them).

Does this become less of a concern with stickier tires or practice or is it always a handicap? I'm just running Hankook RS-2s on the Evo as I learn how to drive. I ran my RT-615s in one event (the slickest surface we have) and didn't feel like I had as many issues slowing, but the speeds were less than my most recent course.

-Jon
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 07:08 AM
  #594  
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Originally Posted by stimpy
Does this become less of a concern with stickier tires or practice or is it always a handicap? I'm just running Hankook RS-2s on the Evo as I learn how to drive. I ran my RT-615s in one event (the slickest surface we have) and didn't feel like I had as many issues slowing, but the speeds were less than my most recent course.

-Jon
Yes it does become "less" of a concern with stickier tires but it also means you need to learn to modulate your brakes and threshold brake better ... my worthless 2 C.
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 08:24 AM
  #595  
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From: Michigan
Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya
I'm glad I have a Random Tech HFC that meets the Federal EPA and CARB requirements. Unless there is paper work that shows the STU-spec Richard Jung HFC passes Federal EPA and CARB, it might become illegal to run such a HFC in STU.
Chris is correct, the ruleset is for STS/STS2 only. However, because of these "member comment" discussions, we may see further clarification of STX/STU emissions/cat (incl/HF-cat) in the future. Our 14.12.6 is pretty open:

"6. High flow catalytic converters are allowed, but must attach
within six inches of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters
may be replaced by a single unit. The inlet of the single replacement
converter may be located no further downstream than 6"
along the piping flow path from the original exit of the final OE
converter."

If the suggested rule change was for all of Street Touring, the Random is not necessarily "certified" to be a direct replacement specifically for the Evo/STI. Most present day Hi-Flow cats on the market would be deemed illegal under this new wording in STX/STU (including my Helix). Federal and State emissions is a tricky subject to say the least.

Dave
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 08:57 AM
  #596  
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From: Dillsburg
Originally Posted by stimpy
This has more to do with the original choice in car to run for STU, but how many of you are running the RS and have compared it to an ABS Evo? Stopping my car is a chore and I'm wondering if Mitsu made the incorrect choice in removing ABS. I have to be very sure that my wheels are straight when I try and stop or I go spinning through the cones (or just straight through them).

Does this become less of a concern with stickier tires or practice or is it always a handicap? I'm just running Hankook RS-2s on the Evo as I learn how to drive. I ran my RT-615s in one event (the slickest surface we have) and didn't feel like I had as many issues slowing, but the speeds were less than my most recent course.

-Jon
Jooo just need some more practice with your threshold braking. It can actually be an advantage to have a non-ABS car= no ice mode.

I have not really had any situations that the RS's lack of ABS has been a problem.
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 09:19 AM
  #597  
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Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya
Yes it does become "less" of a concern with stickier tires but it also means you need to learn to modulate your brakes and threshold brake better ... my worthless 2 C.
Until you flat spot your wallet.

Seriously though, I'm surprised more people don't bring up the EBD system. It can modulate each brake individually which I can't do with my feet. On street tires, I certainly stop better in ABS+EBD evos than in my RS. Is it worth all the extra weight that comes along with having a GSR/MR? Probably not.

d
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 09:25 AM
  #598  
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Originally Posted by donour
Until you flat spot your wallet.
... the stickier the tire the more expensive it gets too ...

Personally I prefer having ABS and EBD ... but it is possible to eek out a little more performance without ABS but you have to be a really good driver and I'm far from that
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 09:47 AM
  #599  
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The way I've been seeing it, I can only stop as well as the tire with the worst traction. This requires smooth, straight braking or your overall braking limits go down (or you flat-spot).

In our autocross school we had a pivot cone that was preceeded by an offset. Most people with ABS could start braking as they were rounding the offset. I had to back up the braking point to before the offset so I could get the car stopped in a straight line, go around the offset, brake some more and then do the pivot.

I really committed my motorsports tires to autocross after my past weekend. All four tires are flat-spotted in some way or another.

At the same venue but in my M3 instead of the Evo, I had the "ice mode" going on where the tires didn't seem to lock up but the car wasn't stopping. The same stopping concepts applied, but I just had the safety net preventing me from flat-spotting.

-Jon
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Old Jun 21, 2007 | 09:57 AM
  #600  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mac
Jooo just need some more practice with your threshold braking. It can actually be an advantage to have a non-ABS car= no ice mode.

I have not really had any situations that the RS's lack of ABS has been a problem.
Has anyone actually put an Evo into ice mode before? I haven't had it happen in my car ever.
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