The bold was what I was thinking about when I saw the setup. Trading one set of cooling for another.

 

Absolutely, more heat has to be rejected by the radiator.

I suppose my question though, does putting an oil cooler in front of the radiator mean you are now trying to reject the same amount of heat to less air, effectively putting the oil/coolant heat exchanger on roughly the same playing field as the front mount oil cooler setup?

Would simply adding more radiator at that point have the same effect as having a separate oil cooler. It seems to me, if you want more cooling, you have to get more air so putting the oil cooler in the same air stream as the radiator seems like it will greatly cut down on cooling capacity either way.

Only reason I can see this making any sense of actually doing would be for aero purposes though and maybe less potential for damage to an oil cooler. I don't think it's really a good idea by any means, just another potential option.

Although, I could also see the two separate coolers working similar to a dual pass type cooler, particularly as oil temps are often higher then coolant temps.

 

due to the fact that oil and coolant temps have a direct relationship, i think using the coolant to cool the oil quickly becomes counter productive (ie what davek said regarding power level at which the liquid cooler became useless).

if you stick to using air, i think you have more chance to use a few tricks and engineering to maximize a setup. unfortunately i have the brain power to come up with the ideas, but my fab skill/tools are severely lacking (i dont even have a garage where i live right now). i have many a napkin with oil cooler thoughts/math from dinners while at work lol. ill come up with something...but im starting to wonder if i should improve the water temp control first. although, i almost think you can push the water temp limits harder than you can/should push the oil temp limits from the get go, and i also think its harder to raise the water temp anyway.

 

stealing this pic from user "fireroasted"

he did this setup for trans cooling.


that mishi cooler is 12.5"x5.5"x3.25"

this may have just showed me how to mount a 25 row cooler with some somewhat simple "L" brackets.

 

This setup is done by user obri'sevo:


looks to be a 13 row. which is a decent amount less surface area than stock, but its right in the air of the nose so it again comes down to an argument of efficiency of an aftermarket cooler vs stock. my concern is how close that sits to rubbing on the intercooler.

 

I did this with my hillclimb car because cooling is extremely important:



Radiator and oil cooler are both ~3" thick. Can just barely get a fan on the back side and have it covering part of the radiator and part of the oil cooler so it will suck some of the heat out when no longer moving. Notice that the top of the coolers are tilted forwards and basically sit where the OEM radiator frame support used to be...still mounts to stockish location on the bottom side.



Radiator and oil cooler both custom made for my by CBRD. I will be going with a different setup after PPIHC this year, likely moving the radiator rearwards and then stacking oil cooler on the intercooler.

Dave

 

^No ill-effects with the upper rad support cutout?

I would be stealing some of these mounting options on my own car once the A/C stuff is removed. Can't be done with my street car status at the moment, lol.

 

Don't think so. The car is fully caged with tie-ins to shock towers. Factory radiator support is pretty flimsy so I doubt it makes much difference. If you look closely you can see that I boxed off the ends of the top of the radiator support where the middle section was cut out.

Dave

 

I'm a novice at this stuff but why wouldn't a water sprayer work? Too unpredictable? Not effective/consistent enough? I don't understand why having a more powerful conventional cooling system wouldn't be an option. Does oil pressure vary too much when the regular cooling system is taxed more than the oil cooler? I guess I just don't understand the nature of the issues caused by higher oil temps. Ducting isn't an option? All of this fabricating has got to mean that other ideas have been tried and they failed.

 

Can't speak for everyone here, but my changes were as a result of seeing high coolant temps, I'm not actually sure what my oil temps are. I do run water sprayers too. Never once had a problem at a normal track...but Pikes Peak is a very harsh environment, extra strain on things because you're climbing and less cooling because the air is very thin.

Dave

 

im after an upgrade because even in 70 degree ambient temps ive already seen almost 200 degree oil temps in the pan. In the hunt for reliability id like to keep the oil cooler. i have brake ducting in front of my oil cooler, so i am losing some efficiency...i would also like to not have such a critical part hanging so low on the car.

 

dave, are you using any sort of pump on your oil cooler? the setup i posted this morning actually has an electric fluid pump down where the stock cooler is pushing the oil out to the cooler, which i have not seen any other setups do. wondering if its necessary?

 

Nope, no pump on mine, just -8 lines out to the cooler.

Dave

 

[QUOthe= killerpenguin21;10825516]dave, are you using any sort of pump on your oil cooler? the setup i posted this morning actually has an electric fluid pump down where the stock cooler is pushing the oil out to the cooler, which i have not seen any other setups do. wondering if its necessary?[/QUOTE]

The stock oil pump will push oil to the cooler fine. the line is just a little longer. I have not notice any pressure drop due to cooler being higher than stock location.

The one picture you posted of a tranny cooler, that would require an external pump.

 

From my experience the water sprayers aren't nearly effective enough, Dave's may be different. But from what i've seen, at speed on track, they evaporate or blow off WAY too quickly to actually penetrate and provide cooling to a decently thick cooler, be it oil or water. Basically it's been extra weight for most guys doing TT or racing. Dave's may be effective enough and he fires it at the right slow moments before it gets too hot etc but i'll let him comment with any data.

Most of us have seen ~260-280 when we're really hitting the lines and going full tilt. Most of the Vette guys see 300+ on stock setups doing solo HPDE laps. So it is important enough to consider an exotic setup but as most said it depends on your racing style. Dave for example (you know we love ya, just so well documented i gotta pick on ya ) needed to move everything away from the corners because it's not a matter of if but when those hit something rather unforgiving and making it to the finish is sometimes more important then 20+ deg of efficiency or cost.

Most of you that do track days however don't REALLY need to move the oil cooler in front of the rad. As others have said your now putting ~240 deg air through the already suffering radiator which should be around ~200 or lower on most proper setups. Brake ducting does NOT have to be in those side areas, and blocking them off is a waste of space because the only ones that get advantage from that are drag racers looking for that 1/100's second in a straight line. We make time up in way different manners. Also I was of the opinion, like in Dave's setup, if I went off I don't want the oil cooler getting trashed. Well after crashing a few times (as most of you will if you're worth your salt) the oil cooler being in that area is the least damage I have to worry about.

Sorry for the long description, i've just been there and went through that already. In the end adding a fan to the stock or stock replacement cooler ended up landing me the best cooling at the best price, and is easily replaceable.