2014 STU Discussion!
Well it sounds like AWD is only going to get 255s.
You were sitting next to me at the town hall meeting when I asked about opening up the rule to 285 for all cars. Sounded like that might go, right? A STAC member also brought up limiting the 2wds to 11" wheels, which I said was not a factor, since you can't stretch 285/30s on 12s anyways.
I thought at least 265s were a sure thing, and could help attract some of the new AWD cars. 255s is too little, and waiting another year for more tire won't help to increase STU participation.
Rick
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 441
Likes: 33
From: Seattle
Is this a final decision?
What you're saying hear doesn't make sense with what you said above(?)... 285s?265s? or 255s???
255s is almost a total waste of time
wassup?
thanks Rick!
Doug
You were sitting next to me at the town hall meeting when I asked about opening up the rule to 285 for all cars. Sounded like that might go, right? A STAC member also brought up limiting the 2wds to 11" wheels, which I said was not a factor, since you can't stretch 285/30s on 12s anyways.
I thought at least 265s were a sure thing, and could help attract some of the new AWD cars. 255s is too little, and waiting another year for more tire won't help to increase STU participation.
I thought at least 265s were a sure thing, and could help attract some of the new AWD cars. 255s is too little, and waiting another year for more tire won't help to increase STU participation.
255s is almost a total waste of time
wassup?
thanks Rick!
Doug
No final decisions are made final until it's in fastrack. Just speculation/chatter now. Sounds like STAC is leaning towards 255's now. This means we need to keep pumping letters into the STAC stating facts (though they seem to be ignoring those facts). Remember STAC doesn't know details about Evo's like how much tire will fit, how they handle in sweepers or how much tire the X needs because it weighs xxxlbs more than a 8/9 etc... don't assume they know cuz they dont. It's hard for them to know all details about cars that they are writing rules for (imo they sure as heck better know every detail about a car before they make decision/rule right? Common sense on that).
Hey Geoff! Thanks for the heads up on the protest thing! Its a shame you aren't coming to the Natl's. I wanted to see you whip up on the Z cars. We need you!
As far as potential protests, everything is cool. I guess you didn't hear, but the module in plain sight on my car that one guy mistook as some kind of boost controller turned out to be, get this....only a sending unit for an extra gauge!! All that fuss....man 'o man. It had me freaking, tho!!! It came with the car so I didn't even know what it was, either. It makes perfect sense now, of course, but I was too freaked to make the tie between the two, at the time.
So I took my car to my tuner to find out what it was. Chad at "Modified by K.C." (he has the only AWD dyno in the Mid West and does all the cars around here in Kansas City) At first he laughed that anyone would think the sensor was a boost controller. Then when I told him that it almost go me protested, he got mad. He said even if it WAS a controller that it couldn't control boost. He talked so fast and kept pointing to things that aren't there that would have to be there and this and that. He lost me at "it a FREAKING SENDING UNIT TO YOUR GAUGE!" O.k. o.k, o.k. is all I could get out. Jeeez. So, I'll unhook it for the Pro and Natl's, just to be sure...'cause you are right, I don't want to get protested....so the car is still legit, Geoff.
Yeah, I have 40 points in the Pro. But, we'll see. According to all the results, my car can only do high 1.9s in the 60' while other Evo's that won, easily can do 1.7s..and that only the first 60 feet! Doesn't sound fast, but I will do my best and try hard. Still wish you were coming. How about next year?
Thanks again,
Mark Hill
As far as potential protests, everything is cool. I guess you didn't hear, but the module in plain sight on my car that one guy mistook as some kind of boost controller turned out to be, get this....only a sending unit for an extra gauge!! All that fuss....man 'o man. It had me freaking, tho!!! It came with the car so I didn't even know what it was, either. It makes perfect sense now, of course, but I was too freaked to make the tie between the two, at the time.
So I took my car to my tuner to find out what it was. Chad at "Modified by K.C." (he has the only AWD dyno in the Mid West and does all the cars around here in Kansas City) At first he laughed that anyone would think the sensor was a boost controller. Then when I told him that it almost go me protested, he got mad. He said even if it WAS a controller that it couldn't control boost. He talked so fast and kept pointing to things that aren't there that would have to be there and this and that. He lost me at "it a FREAKING SENDING UNIT TO YOUR GAUGE!" O.k. o.k, o.k. is all I could get out. Jeeez. So, I'll unhook it for the Pro and Natl's, just to be sure...'cause you are right, I don't want to get protested....so the car is still legit, Geoff.
Yeah, I have 40 points in the Pro. But, we'll see. According to all the results, my car can only do high 1.9s in the 60' while other Evo's that won, easily can do 1.7s..and that only the first 60 feet! Doesn't sound fast, but I will do my best and try hard. Still wish you were coming. How about next year?
Thanks again,
Mark Hill
245 vs 255... Go talk to the STR Miata folks. Our local guys, which last year and the year before were of the fastest miatas in STR, run 245s cause the fit is easier and the 255s aren't faster. Different car of course, but relevant.
Without a premise of 265s, we will see less "boost buggies" and maybe a few more 350s and corvettes. The numbers are real, STU had the biggest decline in participation, Im expecting our big names in the STU Evo community to continue the trend without help.
Without a premise of 265s, we will see less "boost buggies" and maybe a few more 350s and corvettes. The numbers are real, STU had the biggest decline in participation, Im expecting our big names in the STU Evo community to continue the trend without help.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Well I guess I need to finish that letter I was working on in July.
This is the first I'm hearing of 255s being discussed at nats. Thing is.. soonest it could happen is the 2016 season, right? I thought we were too late for 2015 rules changes.
That's the thing, 255s sounded off the table at the break-out STAC meeting after town hall meeting (IMO). As Geoff said, I would get those letters in ASAP, in case opinion can be swayed by showing other results data, other than from nats.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
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From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Different car, AND they are limited to 9's.
Strange thing is student driver... Geoff (autoxevo) and I were looking your issues over in 2013 in grid. I had a laptop, OBDII cable, and an OEM/stock 2006 ROM... I offered to simply compare your tables to that ROM to ensure compliance with the ST* rule set, and you strongly declined the 2min test that would have confirmed your claims, and we would have all let it go. Seems strange to decline something that simple/obvious to verify your story. As far as the 2014 issues re: pulled fenders.. performance advantage or not, many of us believe in adhering to rules, regardless of advantage/disadvantage. I know I spent additional money on my car to ensure legality vs. "oh no one will care" type of mentality.
To each their own, no longer going to play in STU, thanks to those friendships forged and drivers/friends I've met, especially those who have always had their integrity.
To each their own, no longer going to play in STU, thanks to those friendships forged and drivers/friends I've met, especially those who have always had their integrity.
Last edited by Bassicfun; Sep 14, 2014 at 08:11 AM.
Strange thing is student driver... Geoff (autoxevo) and I were looking your issues over in 2013 in grid. I had a laptop, OBDII cable, and an OEM/stock 2006 ROM... I offered to simply compare your tables to that ROM to ensure compliance with the ST* rule set, and you strongly declined the 2min test that would have confirmed your claims, and we would have all let it go. Seems strange to decline something that simple/obvious to verify your story. As far as the 2014 issues re: pulled fenders.. performance advantage or not, many of us believe in adhering to rules, regardless of advantage/disadvantage. I know I spent additional money on my car to ensure legality vs. "oh no one will care" type of mentality.
To each their own, no longer going to play in STU, thanks to those friendships forged and drivers/friends I've met, especially those who have always had their integrity.
To each their own, no longer going to play in STU, thanks to those friendships forged and drivers/friends I've met, especially those who have always had their integrity.
Sucks your leaving though Brian, but with what the SCCA has done, I don't blame you. The thought has crossed my mind many times in the past few months as well. = (
On the 255 tire note => The way I view this change is: We get to wait another 1.5-2 years to spend $700 ish on some 255 tires that might (but probably not likely) make our cars (that we've spent thousand modifying for class) to be competitive. Thanks a lot SCCA, I think I'll cancel my 2015 membership = /
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 535
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From: Dallas
Thanks for the Monday morning humor Marshall!
I'm still not entirely convinced that a tire increase is needed. I hate to keep bringing this up. But Brian Peters is an upper echelon driver. With jackets in Stock, Street Prepared and Street Touring. He puts big time on OTHER national champions. That is something that can NOT be ignored. He put 1.5 on Dadio in FS. And would have done it two years in a row had he not coned it.
Unfortunately, with Geoff and a heap of the other top STU drivers failing to make nationals. We are really just speculating on what the class is doing. Other than the fact that there was significant decline in participation. Is the class really broken?
My understanding from talking to John Hale, Rob Irish and Jon P, is that they were just ready for a change of scenery. I believe Josh Luster fell into that group as well. I would assume that there are others too that feel the boost buggies are still competitive.
I would guarantee that we will start to see more RWD STU's cars being built. And if the diehard boost buggy guys disappear, then I honestly believe it's because of their own lack of participation. Rather than rules inequities.
I'm still not entirely convinced that a tire increase is needed. I hate to keep bringing this up. But Brian Peters is an upper echelon driver. With jackets in Stock, Street Prepared and Street Touring. He puts big time on OTHER national champions. That is something that can NOT be ignored. He put 1.5 on Dadio in FS. And would have done it two years in a row had he not coned it.
Unfortunately, with Geoff and a heap of the other top STU drivers failing to make nationals. We are really just speculating on what the class is doing. Other than the fact that there was significant decline in participation. Is the class really broken?
My understanding from talking to John Hale, Rob Irish and Jon P, is that they were just ready for a change of scenery. I believe Josh Luster fell into that group as well. I would assume that there are others too that feel the boost buggies are still competitive.
I would guarantee that we will start to see more RWD STU's cars being built. And if the diehard boost buggy guys disappear, then I honestly believe it's because of their own lack of participation. Rather than rules inequities.