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Here's the issue with all of our current wet sump options:
I had to use a moroso pan because I couldn't find a photo of a stock pan at this angle but it's the same thing. Our issue isn't oil getting pulled away from the pickup, it's oil not returning to the sump where the pickup sits. Even after the g force is gone the oil is not going to return to the sump very easily.
The solution is to chop down the shallow part and make it angle downwards to the sump to aid oil return. Like this:
In fact, Moroso already does this on their X pan. I don't know why they neglected it for the 8/9 pan:
Option B which would work even better would be to have a "full depth" pan like Zach made for his car which requires an exhaust reroute and AC delete. This gives complete freedom to design a sump that will hold pressure for any car:
Option C is to increase the sump area even further. Tuff customs already does this. They've proven it works better than the Racefab design, which should be obvious because it has a greater capacity, but it's still not completely bulletproof: https://ssmperformanceparts.com.au/p...-sump-evo-4-9/
As to getting the pan to seal, that's a Moroso issue. There's plenty of dry sump pans that have no sealing issues, there's no reason we can't have a wet sump made with no sealing issues.
Here's the issue with all of our current wet sump options:
I had to use a moroso pan because I couldn't find a photo of a stock pan at this angle but it's the same thing. Our issue isn't oil getting pulled away from the pickup, it's oil not returning to the sump where the pickup sits. Even after the g force is gone the oil is not going to return to the sump very easily.
The solution is to chop down the shallow part and make it angle downwards to the sump to aid oil return. Like this:
How much oil do you think could be in that shallow part until it is full, couple quarts tops?
At that point, I don't see what would keep it there except G-forces.
Probably still easier to take Kaj's pan and add angle on shallow end if desired. Hardest part
of making any of these pans is contour against block. I can even see a wall at end of shallow
end with 2 trap doors, just in case deep end wants to flow that way. That's still only 6 doors.
How much oil do you think could be in that shallow part until it is full, couple quarts tops?
At that point, I don't see what would keep it there except G-forces.
Probably still easier to take Kaj's pan and add angle on shallow end if desired. Hardest part
of making any of these pans is contour against block. I can even see a wall at end of shallow
end with 2 trap doors, just in case deep end wants to flow that way. That's still only 6 doors.
What are the other 5 for?
You could probably fit 3-4 quarts under 1.5G force up in the shallow area. Engines need more than 2 quarts to stay alive.
To put things in perspective, that Tuff Customs pan doesn't have pressur drops as soon as the racefab (and maybe it won't ever) because it holds 9.5 quarts of oil. With 3-4 in the shallow area that still leaves enough returning to the sump to keep things healthy.
I don't know what the design of the Unit 2 pan looks like, and that shouldn't be a surprise, people don't want to give away secrets like that. The amount of trap doors doesn't matter to me so long as it works.
And the reason I'm proposing a new pan is because to get the results we want, the only part being reused would be the pan rail. At that point it's less work to make something from scratch. I'd guess fab guys would prefer not having to cut up the odd shape that our pan is anyway.
After taking some unscientific measurements, I don't see how the entire contacts of an OEM oil pan can fit into that area.
It's notnjust sitting there. It's being pulled that way, the oil is essentially pulling up on a slant against the far wall of the pan/block. When you consider than the shallow section of the pan is 2/3 of the area, it's not that unbelievable.
Originally Posted by kyoo
is the guy that's still seeing pressure drops with the racefab running a kiggly?
I do not know. Maybe reach out to them and ask. To buy the TC pan it's almost $1300 if you don't supply a pan and that's way too high for me to justify. I'll make my own again for that price.
I wholeheartedly think we can get a very solid solution if we prove to someone there is enough interest.
It's not all in the pan, it can go up into the crank case too..
I don't see how the ramp then stops that. If anything, gives it an easier path to get to that end, no?
And if the oil is going anyway, isn't it now just forced higher up the crankcase than it was before with
less capacity on that end? The answer still may be just more overall capacity.
I don't see how the ramp then stops that. If anything, gives it an easier path to get to that end, no?
And if the oil is going anyway, isn't it now just forced higher up the crankcase than it was before with
less capacity on that end? The answer still may be just more overall capacity.
That's what I was wondering. I guess more of a "wall", from moving the floor upward, would help prevent oil from moving that way?
This makes me want to revise my pan and build a version 2.0.
I got ideas!
The stock pan actually requires the oil to flow back over a hump to make it back to the sump which is even worse than if it were flat. The hump is to clear the exhaust but last I checked the exhaust doesn't come close enough to the pan for that hump to be needed.
Apr 25, 2019, 07:53 AM
