Anyone help me with track alignment? Lost my 5yr old specs that were free of understeer. Good ol Robispec set up with 2 way Race KW’s. Always had off throttle oversteer and favored rotation. Never had understeer problem.

New shop alignment was to fix the Hoosier R7 outer edge destruction after 2 weekends. Never had such wear on the outer edge. So we made the “more negative adjustments front and rear” and it all sucks. Understeer so much, I went home early out of frustration.

17x10+38 RPF1’s on 295/35 Hoosier R7

Also curious what mm rear sway bar has the most favor for track. I’m maxed out on my current 3 way adjustable progress 25mm.

 

I'm assuming they put more negative camber in the rear and brought your toe settings closer to zero.

Do you have a print out of the alignment?

 

That’s probably right. I don’t have a print out yet. Going to be getting that soon. Looking for track set ups to get started.

 

Robi's KW setup is -2.8 to -3.0 front. -1.8 to -1.9 rear. 1/16 toe in, in rear. 0 tow in front. Max caster in front. That's what he always setup. It's a tad conservative but he never really asked anybody lol.

 

Add like 2mm toe out per side on the rear and will sort it.

Cant do with stock rear toe arms tho as when u increase camber u increase toe in which makes it rubbish

 

Thank you so much! That’s what I needed. I think we did more negative camber on both ends but thought we kept the same ratio front to back.

Other than Dallas lower rear control arms, what are some of the Dallas adds track guys are doing? The rear toe arms?

I want to go from 10 to 10.5 rims. What will that take suspension wise or with Dallas’ parts? (I got a PM into Dallas).

 

It'd be just the rear trailing arms for 10.5" rims. But you can also make them work with the OE trailing arms. It really comes down to tire. a 275 is about as wide as you'll go on the stock trailing arm with some minor shaving.

SSB Front uprights are a must for our cars when lowered in my opinion.

 

yea i have 10.5 rims on mine with stock trailing arms but there aint much clearance.

I have dallas offset camber arms front which give more caster which are very good. ive also got some of his pillow ball mounts (i think thats what you call them) for the rear shock upper mounts/towers

The most beneficial thing he sells is his front hubs followed by his rear hubs if you have the budget

 

This is where I get lost. I love everything you guys are saying and really love that it all works on SSB proven parts. And wow there is definitely a budget to factor in.

Dallas and I connected via email. I am about to go to SSB school and learn what you guys are talking about.

I currently run 17x10+38 R7 295/35. Shaved my rear arms and every new set of tires still has to work themselves out. I have a fingernail width between tire and control arm. Seems everyone has walked away from the 17” rotational mass weight savings and gone all in on steam rollers. Think I am headed there by force.

I just bought a set of 17x10 +38 RPF1’s and a 18x10+38 RPF1’s for street. This winter will be fun. I might have my AP brakes up for sale too. Kinda of starting all over......geeeeesh!

 

Yea the 17s put the tire in an un-ideal spot at the trailing arm from what I remember. The 18s help with that some. But 295, thats gonna rub with some tire sqirm. If you get the rear SSB trailing arms you're good though.

Biggest improvement in handling is the front uprights, his camber/caster plats for the strut top, and WL or Perrin offset bushing thing for the front control arm. Anything more than that in terms of SSB parts is just gravy

 

Hey guys, I'll clear up the purpose of each of the major parts. They all have some very specific changes from OEM or reasons to change from OEM.

Front Upright, the obvious bit is bringing roll center back up. But when you lower the front, the RC drops 3:1 with ride height which has a huge effect on response and total roll. Reducing that has a major effect on how the car responds to steering inputs. Raising roll center also reduces total roll and the way it rolls. It doesnt flop over as hard on the outside front and instead splits between outside dive and inside lift (just talking roll angles here) where really gets closer to matching what the rear of the car also does. It also brings the geometry back away from camber loss in bump to something positive which is totally dependent on too many variable for me to give you a number. You could get upwards of 0.5deg/in but are likely going to land somewhere between 0 and 0.5 deg/in.

Other changes, longer strut mount to push the strut further inboard by 5mm (IIRC) which adds to inboard tire clearance but does slightly take away from slider axis angle which is what determines your camber gain. Being modular, things can get extreme though. I run a 12mm longer strut mount for my 315 setup which puts the strut hairs from the inner wall. The other big change is bump steer adjustment to account for an appropriate range of camber adjustment and ball joint lengths.

Rear Uprights, these have a different effect than changing the front. Rear roll center changes 1:1 with ride height so when lowering the roll moment stays pretty much the same. Thats a much better scenario than the front but with this when actually reducing it the change in steering response is dramatic. I also bring camber gain back closer to the linear range, as much as I can. More important is to get it off the cliff you end up with in a lowered car. In the testing we've done this really seems to have a very positive effect on how the car lets go and rotates. Things just feel very progressive. Rear bump steer is also adjustable to play with lift toe-out (potentially desireable in autox) or lift toe-in/neutral (more desired on track for stability).

Front Control Arms, primary benefit over anything else is being able to move the wheel around. I run my wheel almost an inch further forward than stock to get it off the back of the wheel well and counter the added offset running offset top hats. So I can dial in the wheel position from OEM 3.5deg caster to upwards of 9degs (what I'll be running this year). They also have adjustable ball joints with OEM length, +5mm, and +10mm. So say youre at AutoX and running OEM length but headed to track and want more stability, just dial in +5 or +10 will naturally stiffen the front and tame the rear by bringing more of the total weight transfer forward. The other benefit of course is adding spherical joints at all positions in a bolted/clamped cups on the body (doesn't risk being lose like joints with just snap rings). And you can keep your OEM to swap out for winter if thats your thing.

Rear Trailing Arms, this is all about adding tire clearance. Adds 25mm of clearance which is pretty much perfect to match clearance with other things on the inner wheel well sheet metal, spring perch, and fuel filler tube.

There are other things like Ohlin caster plates and coaxial spring perches, but these are the big hitters. There are certainly details Ive missed as I just try and think through what Ive done over the last 3-4years (has It been that long?!) but the collection of parts are epic. The nice thing about driving the car theyre made for, I've been able to test myself and try out different ideas to really hone in on what works best. For instance, the EvoX or +20mm control arms, they arent the right thing on an Evo unless its a widebody with narrow tires. I have both, and run the standard length.

 

Im excited to have the entire catalog besides the rear trailing arms but I dont see going over a 275. And in fact if I ever get to compete in NASA events I think I'd have to go narrower anyway.

Supreme build quality and fit and finish in all your stuff Dallas. The evo community is extremely lucky to have you.

 

Thank you Dallas! (Insert Hunt for Red October scene).

Great explaining. Thanks for email replies too. Been great getting to know you.

 

That's exactly what he recommended to me. His reasoning was that yeah... others run more aggressive, but the tires on his cars last much, much longer. I do HPDE, so wasn't too worried, but that's no biggie to me. He also suggested an 8kF/10kR spring rate. Definitely different than what everyone else was running. But... my car always did great. No complaints.

I think 275s are the sweet spot for me, too (NT01). I don't see myself being able to get anything bigger up to temp. Thes f**kers sure are grippy, though. Now I just need to sort out the bouncing on corner entry, now that it doesn't slide

 

The recommendations from Robi is a very much more street oriented thing. That is not a setup that will win any kind of real racing. Nothing about it is "enough" by pretty large margins.