Ebay intercooler testing from the Pros at Buschur Racing....the facts, the truth
BTW, I looked at the link to 4tun8's testing. NOT taking anything away from the guy, not bad mouthing him. BUT, the test was a few days apart, no logging of air temps, boost pressure, knock correction etc.
As a matter of fact he mentions that the car had more knock on the Ebay FMIC but didn't know why and that the car was running a little richer.
Well, let's think about it. First off if you unload the car from the dyno and re-position and tie it down again there is probably going to be some change in the levels of HP. Also, as I said with the very high increase in temps the Ebay FMIC saw a normal fuel management (or stock computer) would end up adding fuel and my knock counts went up too.
SO, I'd like to say THANK YOU for posting the link to that other test as I think it 100% backs up the points I was trying to make.
BTW, as you can see I am still here typing, even with a manly ***** you can't take care of business that fast! hahahaha
As a matter of fact he mentions that the car had more knock on the Ebay FMIC but didn't know why and that the car was running a little richer.
Well, let's think about it. First off if you unload the car from the dyno and re-position and tie it down again there is probably going to be some change in the levels of HP. Also, as I said with the very high increase in temps the Ebay FMIC saw a normal fuel management (or stock computer) would end up adding fuel and my knock counts went up too.
SO, I'd like to say THANK YOU for posting the link to that other test as I think it 100% backs up the points I was trying to make.
BTW, as you can see I am still here typing, even with a manly ***** you can't take care of business that fast! hahahaha
Buschur how does this not prove that your IC is just a better heatsink then a 150 dollar ebay one? What would of been more realistic would of been a series of pulls on the street no? What temps did your IC get up to on the road courses and what temps did the ebay IC get up to on the dyno?
How much air was flowing over the IC's on the dyno?
Also I have recieved a couple PM's from people supporting what I have said and questioned, I think lots of people will have trouble with what you stated regarding what you do and don't and will and won't disclose when it comes to testing.
Even hinting at the fact that you wouldn't of disclosed the information if the Ebay part was better than your "made in the usa" part, really just takes away a lot of trust I personally had in things you posted up earlier, but has now taken it away at least a bit for me.
Scorke
How much air was flowing over the IC's on the dyno?
Also I have recieved a couple PM's from people supporting what I have said and questioned, I think lots of people will have trouble with what you stated regarding what you do and don't and will and won't disclose when it comes to testing.
Even hinting at the fact that you wouldn't of disclosed the information if the Ebay part was better than your "made in the usa" part, really just takes away a lot of trust I personally had in things you posted up earlier, but has now taken it away at least a bit for me.
Scorke
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: san antonio
he makes a valid point. the ebay fmic might be good bang for the buck. and everyone on both sides make good points. but i like the fact of someone who knows something about something and asks "hey what kinda I/C is that" and i mention the name buschur and they give me the good 'ol thumbs up verses mentioning "brand X" aka ebay, and they pretty much just nod and walk away like why would i buy a $30000 car and buy brand x. this is just my opinion im not getting into the war. hey david i pm'ed you on somethings so when ever you got time.
I think the biggest problem here is:
1. The ebay intercooler is much smaller than your RACE version intercooler and abviously cannot be efficient for a 600+whp evo
2.Your boost went up because of the lesser amount of air the turbo had to fill, just like when you add a larger intercooler the psi usually drops.
3.Im sure on a lightly modded car the Ebay intercooler is much better than the stocker and for the money is already been proven to be the best intercooler for the $$$
4.You wouldnt test your RACE intercooler on a lightly modded evo, Right, Well the same works with the much smaller ebay unit....
1. The ebay intercooler is much smaller than your RACE version intercooler and abviously cannot be efficient for a 600+whp evo
2.Your boost went up because of the lesser amount of air the turbo had to fill, just like when you add a larger intercooler the psi usually drops.
3.Im sure on a lightly modded car the Ebay intercooler is much better than the stocker and for the money is already been proven to be the best intercooler for the $$$
4.You wouldnt test your RACE intercooler on a lightly modded evo, Right, Well the same works with the much smaller ebay unit....
I appreciate your testing Dave and have no doubt that your FMIC is significantly better than the Ebay FMIC. I just think it's important to note that the performance of an intercooler on a dyno can not always be related to intercooler's performance on the road. With more airflow over the Ebay intercooler it may have performed better.
-Paul
-Paul
Wow...Just Wow.
credibility cred·i·bil·i·ty
n.
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: "America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders" (Henry A. Kissinger).
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.
With those statements you have shown that you are not a credible source for any of us to believe any of your past, present, or future Dyno Tests. You have blown my freaking mind. I honestly cannot believe you actually posted those words on this forum.
Do you realize that by admitting that if something would have performed better than your own products, that you wouldn't have posted the results is just as bad as posting fake results none the less? This is just freaking crazy. How are we as a forum to believe anything you say now?
Just off the top of my head it makes me now wonder why you are so against pitting your TBE against the XS Power one. Do you see what you have done?
You have just created a huge range of doubt in the whole forum as to how your products may perform because if you now blow off any future dyno test that pit X product against yours we as a forum don't know if you actually already did the test and found your product to be lacking...
You have just proven in your own words that you lack any integrity and/or credibility...Wow!
credibility cred·i·bil·i·ty
n.
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: "America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders" (Henry A. Kissinger).
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.
With those statements you have shown that you are not a credible source for any of us to believe any of your past, present, or future Dyno Tests. You have blown my freaking mind. I honestly cannot believe you actually posted those words on this forum.
Do you realize that by admitting that if something would have performed better than your own products, that you wouldn't have posted the results is just as bad as posting fake results none the less? This is just freaking crazy. How are we as a forum to believe anything you say now?
Just off the top of my head it makes me now wonder why you are so against pitting your TBE against the XS Power one. Do you see what you have done?
You have just created a huge range of doubt in the whole forum as to how your products may perform because if you now blow off any future dyno test that pit X product against yours we as a forum don't know if you actually already did the test and found your product to be lacking...
You have just proven in your own words that you lack any integrity and/or credibility...Wow!
can we all grow up and stop infighting like little children. If you don't agree with Mr. Buschur's testing methods or product quality don't buy them. There is no reason to follow him around on the forums with the sole intent of muddy-ing the waters. David is an honest man (and I can say this without bias as I have NO parts of his on my car), he does have a rough personality and can be confrontational at times, but this is quite understandible when people go trolling for arguments everywhere he goes.
again I ask PLEASE STOP THE BICKERING
again I ask PLEASE STOP THE BICKERING
Buschur how does this not prove that your IC is just a better heatsink then a 150 dollar ebay one? What would of been more realistic would of been a series of pulls on the street no? What temps did your IC get up to on the road courses and what temps did the ebay IC get up to on the dyno?
Here, I'll post it again:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=258830
THE EBAY FMIC MAKES POWER
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=258830
THE EBAY FMIC MAKES POWER
But on the road, it was a different story. I could pull my friend in the same gear at the same power level with authority, particularly in the higher gears.
All that to say, I have no doubt my car would perform better with a BR intercooler. But before I'd put an Ebay unit on there, I'd rather stay stock IC. I fully believe you get what you pay for, and those high temps off the Ebay IC are just scary.
Its nice to see some good IC testing, especially with temps.
scorke, an intercooler is a heat sink, that's what it is. It's ability to also cool back down is critical so it can't just be made completely dense with ONLY pulling the heat out of the charge air as it's goal. It has to be able to shed that heat back off and the faster it does it the better. I will have to look at the logs tomorrow to further prove this.
Our Race FMIC would drop down almost immediately back to the same starting AIT's. The Ebay FMIC had so much heat it took a VERY long time to get back down. I will show that tomorrow based on time if someone reminds me.
The flow on the dyno was the same for both cars. We use high output squirrel cage blowers. They are quite impressive. I'd say they simulate about 40 mph air and it is very concentrated right on the intercooler.
I posted information in this thread already about our AIT's on a road coursed. You will note that even at a Time Attack at the end of the runs we had less temps with our FMIC than the ebay did with a single gear pull on the dyno. That's not good proof?
Our Race FMIC would drop down almost immediately back to the same starting AIT's. The Ebay FMIC had so much heat it took a VERY long time to get back down. I will show that tomorrow based on time if someone reminds me.
The flow on the dyno was the same for both cars. We use high output squirrel cage blowers. They are quite impressive. I'd say they simulate about 40 mph air and it is very concentrated right on the intercooler.
I posted information in this thread already about our AIT's on a road coursed. You will note that even at a Time Attack at the end of the runs we had less temps with our FMIC than the ebay did with a single gear pull on the dyno. That's not good proof?
scorke, an intercooler is a heat sink, that's what it is. It's ability to also cool back down is critical so it can't just be made completely dense with ONLY pulling the heat out of the charge air as it's goal. It has to be able to shed that heat back off and the faster it does it the better. I will have to look at the logs tomorrow to further prove this.
Our Race FMIC would drop down almost immediately back to the same starting AIT's. The Ebay FMIC had so much heat it took a VERY long time to get back down. I will show that tomorrow based on time if someone reminds me.
The flow on the dyno was the same for both cars. We use high output squirrel cage blowers. They are quite impressive. I'd say they simulate about 40 mph air and it is very concentrated right on the intercooler.
I posted information in this thread already about our AIT's on a road coursed. You will note that even at a Time Attack at the end of the runs we had less temps with our FMIC than the ebay did with a single gear pull on the dyno. That's not good proof?
Our Race FMIC would drop down almost immediately back to the same starting AIT's. The Ebay FMIC had so much heat it took a VERY long time to get back down. I will show that tomorrow based on time if someone reminds me.
The flow on the dyno was the same for both cars. We use high output squirrel cage blowers. They are quite impressive. I'd say they simulate about 40 mph air and it is very concentrated right on the intercooler.
I posted information in this thread already about our AIT's on a road coursed. You will note that even at a Time Attack at the end of the runs we had less temps with our FMIC than the ebay did with a single gear pull on the dyno. That's not good proof?
Scorke
In defense of the e-bay core. You should have turned the boost back down to 40psi. The temps would have certainly been lower. And the car would have made more power as a result. May have even made more power at 38psi with even less heat.
I tested 57trim turbo on my yellow car. Increasing boost from 25psi to 29 psi made compressor outlet temps jump from 325 to over 400. When you reach the end of compressor effieciency temps do skyrocket.
I am not saying e-bay cooler doesnt suck comparred to your race core. But your back/back testing leaves a lot to be desired from where I am sitting.
I tested 57trim turbo on my yellow car. Increasing boost from 25psi to 29 psi made compressor outlet temps jump from 325 to over 400. When you reach the end of compressor effieciency temps do skyrocket.
I am not saying e-bay cooler doesnt suck comparred to your race core. But your back/back testing leaves a lot to be desired from where I am sitting.