I got em in my stroker

+1 for oil squirters

 

so 94awdcoupe your saying a built 2.3l 4g63 would be more reliable for me as a daily driver then the built 4g64 would be??

does sbr 2.4 motor use oil squirters?

thanks for your input!

 

Never in my question did I say removing oil squirters was a good idea. Oil squirters on a quality forged piston is not needed honestly. Insurance? Maybe. The jury is still out on that. You mentioned not having oils squirters was a downside to a 2.4l build. I was merely pointing out that I personally think you are mistaken.

Post one scuffed piston due to not having oils squirters and not poor machine/assembly work. Can you prove without a doubt the cause was lack of sufficient "splashing" of oil on the pistons or are you assuming.

You are making statements as fact. People on forums will believe those statements as fact. That is how the internet works. Now unless there is some massive difference between the basic operation of a 4g63 motor and a standard b series motor I honestly don't see why a forged piston should scuff the wall soo horribly that it would ruin a motor unless the motor was assembled wrong. Missinformation is a capital crime on the majority of forums I frequent. If you make a statement as strong and with as much conviction as you have made, then you should have some evidence to back it up in case someone questions.

 

You can even take this one step further to the extreme. For the record, the 2.3 has a rod stroke ratio of 1.5. How about building a 2.4 block with a 106mm crank, 156mm rods and custom pistons similar to Aarons 10:1's, wher he shifts the pin up 9mm instead of the standard stroker piston's 6mm. This set-up could yield you 2550cc with an 87.5 bore, instead of the 2.3's 2324cc's of displacement. It would have a rod stroke ratio of 1.47 which is almost the same as the 2.3's 1.5 rsr and should be able to rev to 8000rpm all day long.....Mr.Alex's 2.6 is still running strong with something like 700ft/lbs of torque. AWD has pushed the 2.4 with an FP Black to over 700 hp and did 9.33 @ 146mph, just to scratch the surface of what the 2.4 can do. I totally agree with you, the 2.4 is the way to go, cost no object. Like they always said, there's no subsitute for displacement.

 

Interesting post...I do agree with 94awd that oil squitters are good insurance and should help engine life...it is interesting that mitsubishi included them, but someone building a motor for even more power would leave them out...I also was concerned with wall thickness of 4g64 vs 4g63...

As I have received quotes to build both a 2.3 vs. 2.4, I am not sure how folks say the 2.4 route is so much cheaper. Folks have been going the 4g64 route for a long time now, some with luck and some without - head sealing being the biggest issue I have heard.

I would love to have 2.3L + that could handle power, last for 100K miles, rev to ~8500 rpm, and not cost $5K +...

 

You have to ask the question why did Mitsubishi include them. The answer is probably in the factory piston.

What I am disagreeing on is his position that says the 2.4l should be skipped because the cost of fitting oil squirters, which are not necessary with a quality piston, prohibits it.

 

Having oil squirters is more than a reliability issue. The piston cools two ways. The piston rings transfer heat from piston to cylinder wall. The cylinder wall is then cooled by water jacket. The second is by the oil splashing on it from underneath. Removing the oil squirter is like removing half the piston cooling. this argument is no different than saying you can remove your oil cooler from car. Sure you can do it but it is not a good idea. The factory pistons from evo 4 and up have a cast in cavity under the piston. This is to allow the oil to stay on the piston longer. This transfer more heat to the oil for better cooling of the piston.

Forged pistons expand more than cast pistons. I have never, ever seen a cast piston scuff at the skirt from expanding too much. Forged pistons however expand alot when heated. I have maybe ten sets of ruined pistons from over expansion at the skirt. This only shows that forged pistons expand more than cast ones. So why on earth would it be okay to remove piston cooling from a piston that expands more than a cast one? Its not even a debate. its just plain stupid to say forged pistons dont need to be oil cooled. controlling crown temp is very important in a high performance engine. increase crown temps means lower detonation threshold as well.. Forged pistons are stronger than cast and can run at higher piston temps before melting, but that doesnt mean its a good idea to run them hotter.

I have no idea if sloboy 2.4 engines have squirters. I would hope it at least an option from them. But it wouldnt surprise me a bit to see it not available. sloboy is more about making a fast buck than they are offerring a quality product or good customer service.. I would buy my 2.4 from buschur if I couldnt make it myself.

 

Oil squirters are a no brainer and a good machine shop like Lesco that already has a CNC program for machining them in for $150.00 is also cheap insurance. When they are done it looks identical to an Evo block. Check out this thread and pricing is in post 21....also check out the special figure 8 copper o-ringing of the block and AMS makes a modified factory head gasket that goes with it for a perfect seal.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...work-pics.html

 

can someone explain to me about the problem with the head to block seal, why are they not sealing properly?

how much thinner is the 4g64 wall vs the 4g63 wall?

i'm close to buying a 2.4l probably from buschur if they do build them, but i dont wait to make a move that ill regret later.. i appreciate you guy helping out

John

 

You typed a lot of stuff and I read it all. However...where is the proof that your scuffed piston was from lack of oil squirters not being present.

Sounds to me like your clearances aren't right. Once again. 1...single...solitary pic...of a piston that failed because of lack of oil squirters and not assembly error. Just one.

 

Yes it comes in 2 variants. A full custom billet Manley setup - Billet crank, rods, and pistons. Or stock crank, and Manley pistons and rods. I believe the stock rod shaves about $700 off the price total - However it might be more. David has one of these stock crank motors in the works. And my car was already at Buschur's when i lost the 2.0. Luckily I was only about a mile away.


Buschur's top of the line 2.4 does not include oil squirter's. It is not even an option as far as I know. David choose not to include them, and I never questioned it.

 

Can we just put the oil squirters aside for now and move on? How about we talk about the water pump that has to be modified to work. Do we use the 4G64 water pump or the Evo pump and what exactly needs to be done in either case. Is there anyone that sells this as a plug and play part? How about how to modiy the top timing belt cam cover to bolt up the bottom two bolts?

 

Rod to stroke ratio DOES matter.

You can get a 4g64 in good shape and hone the cylinders round to meet the ptw clearance of a forged piston... you can keep a 86.5mm bore.

If you're competant with a mill and have access to machinery like I do... putting oil squirters in your block isn't rocket science.

I'm keeping my 4G63 Mivec engine as a longblock and building the 4g64 while mycar still runs. The block itself is MUCH cheaper than the 4g63 block... 150 dollars compared to 1000!

I picked up my 4g64 block and 94mm crankshaft for 650.00... You cant buy a 4g63 block for that. if I spend another 350 in machine work, I'm still cheaper than the 4g63 block w/out a crankshaft!

STD bore 4g64 is the way to go.

 

 

getting AWD to build me one right now!

machined for oil squirters and mivec!