Best Motoring American Touge
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 3
From: Birmingham, AL
It sucks, but I can't say I'm surprised. I can see the subtitle on the DVD now: "Godzilla conquers America."
I've seen some of their other videos where they bring a Corvette or Porsche to do battle with a Skyline or NSX or RX-7 and the foreign (american/german) cars seem to be driven at 6/10ths while the JDM stars are wide open. Meanwhile the Evo 7 or 8 is nipping at their heels, or even wins from time time.
Maybe next year since you guys know what the deal is you'll be ready for their tricks. I know its not your style but they are in the business of selling DVD's to mostly fanboys, so a bodykit and more vinyl wouldn't hurt.
I've seen some of their other videos where they bring a Corvette or Porsche to do battle with a Skyline or NSX or RX-7 and the foreign (american/german) cars seem to be driven at 6/10ths while the JDM stars are wide open. Meanwhile the Evo 7 or 8 is nipping at their heels, or even wins from time time.
Maybe next year since you guys know what the deal is you'll be ready for their tricks. I know its not your style but they are in the business of selling DVD's to mostly fanboys, so a bodykit and more vinyl wouldn't hurt.
Last edited by GPTourer; Dec 22, 2005 at 11:48 AM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Union City
I cant believe Shiv posted those pictures of us at fftec. Shiv and Dustin, you need to read my shirt closely.... hhahahaha thanks again guys for everything.
This is how bad Shiv wanted to get back into the event, he even posed on the car as a wannabe import model and continued to do the robot in the middle of the track, but with no luck!
Jerry
This is how bad Shiv wanted to get back into the event, he even posed on the car as a wannabe import model and continued to do the robot in the middle of the track, but with no luck!
Jerry
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SuperHatch
On that note Shiv, I'd say have it entered in the SCC USCC next year, but you know what, it isn't flash enough, not "Fast and the Furious" enough to get voted in. So sad, since it'd probably clean house...
- Steve
- Steve
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 3
From: Birmingham, AL
I wonder how much creative narrating and editing in the DVD will be done to jusitfy the actions of the producers. I'm sure it will paint a very different picture then what is portrayed here.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: bay area
Originally Posted by isaac@vishnu
I cant believe i missed that.... i was probably still in awe of all the cars...
haha you missed more than that.. shiv did a lil *** shot action while posing next to asitha's evo.. haha but here is a nice picture.. since i guess we are posting pictures of each other now.. huh?
Last edited by rnsmelody; Dec 23, 2005 at 03:50 AM.
An Interesting Day
Hello All,
I'm chimeing in a bit late but trust me, it's a good one
It was definitely nice to have been there with all of you guys! We all had a blast considering we've never been to an event like this before. Kudos goes out to Shiv, Robi, and Bozz...all of your Evos were a fine representation of the marque we stand by. I'm definitely amazed at the performance level that we all were able to achieve.
But yes, I definitely agree with most of your comments on this thread. There were definitely some "behind the scenes" politics involved. I feel like Shiv and co. really got robbed on that one. I would have never thought that an R34 Skyline would be the "American Touge" champion (although it was definitely fast).
All of that aside, I've got a bit more insight for you guys. We were able to snap a pic of the score sheet for the 4WD class. Check it out...
and a bit more clearer through some quick PS action...
As you can see, the times are listed as X"XX format. 1:00:00 is the base time and the X"XX is the time past one minute. For example, the first car, car 401 ran a 1:12:43.
We actually ran a VERY good time (1:03.23) but lost tons of points for being a "full prepped race car." Totally understandable but then again, we really had to take a guess on the rules and scoring criteria was non-existant. Our car was made for flat out time attack competiton... go figure.
I'm working on the translations for the Japanese right now and post them when I can.
Again, good to see everyone out there! At least they know us Yanks can still build world class cars
Francis@aspec
I'm chimeing in a bit late but trust me, it's a good one
It was definitely nice to have been there with all of you guys! We all had a blast considering we've never been to an event like this before. Kudos goes out to Shiv, Robi, and Bozz...all of your Evos were a fine representation of the marque we stand by. I'm definitely amazed at the performance level that we all were able to achieve.
But yes, I definitely agree with most of your comments on this thread. There were definitely some "behind the scenes" politics involved. I feel like Shiv and co. really got robbed on that one. I would have never thought that an R34 Skyline would be the "American Touge" champion (although it was definitely fast).
All of that aside, I've got a bit more insight for you guys. We were able to snap a pic of the score sheet for the 4WD class. Check it out...
and a bit more clearer through some quick PS action...
As you can see, the times are listed as X"XX format. 1:00:00 is the base time and the X"XX is the time past one minute. For example, the first car, car 401 ran a 1:12:43.
We actually ran a VERY good time (1:03.23) but lost tons of points for being a "full prepped race car." Totally understandable but then again, we really had to take a guess on the rules and scoring criteria was non-existant. Our car was made for flat out time attack competiton... go figure.
I'm working on the translations for the Japanese right now and post them when I can.
Again, good to see everyone out there! At least they know us Yanks can still build world class cars
Francis@aspec
Last edited by A-SPEC; Dec 23, 2005 at 05:50 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
In case they take it down, here is Eric Hsu's post on the BMI board (He owns XS Engineering - the shop behind the R34 Skyline) along with my reponse:
"I'd like to straighten out the silly rumors for your guys.
No, we did not cheat. The rules stated that you can use any DOT approved tire with steel belts. Since many Hoosier tires are bias ply, many Hoosier's were not allowed. I specifically ordered the Hankooks because it met the tire requirements according to the BMI staff. Drift King DID NOT KNOW that our tires were approved for the contest. After the BMI staff explained to him what the contestants were told for tire rules, a careful re-evaluation of the Vishnu EVO and our BNR34 was done. Our car was chosen because it was 2.5 seconds faster (on a 1 minute track!) and it felt like a match for Japanese tuned GT-Rs. For those of your that were there, during lunch, you saw both our BNR34 and the Vishnu EVO go back out on the track for no apparent reason right? Well that lunch time session was for Drift King to re-evaluate both cars.
Sure, Drift King also said that in Japan the tires must have 70% tread across the surface, but the USA BMI staff didn't even know this rule existed and therefore did not tell anybody about this. After Drift King was notified that the 70% rule was not told to anybody, our car was reconsidered for the touge battle and the lunch time re-evaluation happened.
As for our STi not making it, it is entirely true. The clutch went out Friday night and nobody was able to get me a twin plate until Weds morning (air shipped from Japan). So our back up was the BNR34 GT-R. Who wants to bring a stock bodied, full weight, 3480lb. GT-R to a super tight 1 lane course? Not me; the laws of physics dictates that a 2800lb car with a better power to weight ratio is going to be faster. With some suspension tweaking on the BNR34, I was just hoping for the best. This is the same car that won the 2005 Sport Compact Car "Ultimate Street Car Challenge" so it is a potent car. I just didn't know it was potent on a super tight, 1 lane kart track. We competed with the BNR34 at USCC on RA1's and we smoked the closest car on the road course portion (at the streets of willow) of the competition by 3 seconds there too. We didn't cheat there either. Besides, I think the competition was rather lucky as our STi is a full 2 seconds faster than our BNR34 at the streets of Willow (with the BNR34 on Hoosiers and the STi on Pirelli P Zero C's).
I'm sure that at the next American Touge they will not allow the Hankooks Z214s, Hoosiers A3/R3s, Kumho V710s. But let's get something straight: WE WEREN'T CHEATING. With a 2.5 second gap on a 1 minute course, we still stood a good chance of winning with RA1's, NT01's, Pilot Sport Cups, GSCSs, etc. It was unfortunate the rules weren't clear, but the BMI staff assured me that the rules will be crystal clear next time for a drama free event.
Thanks for your time,
Eric Hsu
XS Engineering, Inc."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric,
I for one consider you first and foremost a friend. Any allegations that XS cheated are 100% B.S. in my opinion.
I can also support your decision to run the Hankooks. With the limited information that you and I were both able to squeeze out of the event organizers prior to the event, it appeared that Hankooks, Kumhos and similar tires were fair game. As a fellow participant in what I believed was a motorsports "competition" for television, you and I both chose the best tires that we were led to believe would be acceptable under the rules. The fact that those rules suddenly changed once we were at the event and it was too late to do anything about it is B.S.
What is also B.S. is that the vote was taken *after* the cars had run. In fairness to you and your team, since many of the entrants showed up on tires that fell in the "gray area" the vote should have been taken before a single car ran. I guarantee you at that point there would have been a different show of hands.
Now, my beef is simple. If the rules suddenly change mid-event - whether to our against your team's advantage - they should have changed for everyone.
There is no sane reason that the Skyline - fastest car in its class - should run in the final showdown, while the fastest cars in other classes were disqualified under the bogus tire rule.
This was not your fault in the least - the fault is squarely with the organizers - but this is a simple point to understand. It is also why the event smells "rigged" to people that shelled out thousands of dollars and time and effort to attend.
I can guarantee you that the final showdown would have been more exciting from a true motorsports perspective with more closely matched cars. After all, while I am confident that the Skyline would have won regardless, it would have been a closer and more exciting competition pairing it against cars turning much faster lap times that the NSX, for example.
Hypothetically, if they had run my MR2 against your Skyline, I have no doubt in the world based on the lap times recorded that day that the Skyline would have won. Nonetheless, a shootout between cars with somewhat closer lap times would have been more honest and more true to the spirit of what we all understood the event to be - as opposed to what the producers believe sells programming.
By the same token, if the Skyline and all the other cars on "gray area" tires were banned, a run-off between the Vishnu Evo and the M3, for example, would have been more honest and more fun to watch than a 1:01 Skyline against a 1:07 NSX.
Anyway, I think you see my point. I hold you in the highest esteem and respect and admire you and your team's accomplishments in this event and others. However, I do not believe that the event was even close to being full disclosure for those involved.
Knowing what I know today, I still would have made an appearance but I can guarantee that Garrett and I would not have busted our asses squeezing every last ounce of power and suspension tuning out of the car, let alone rush delivering tires overnight, for an event in which the producers were just going to pretend to compete with my car, then turn around and rule it out.
-- DavidV
"I'd like to straighten out the silly rumors for your guys.
No, we did not cheat. The rules stated that you can use any DOT approved tire with steel belts. Since many Hoosier tires are bias ply, many Hoosier's were not allowed. I specifically ordered the Hankooks because it met the tire requirements according to the BMI staff. Drift King DID NOT KNOW that our tires were approved for the contest. After the BMI staff explained to him what the contestants were told for tire rules, a careful re-evaluation of the Vishnu EVO and our BNR34 was done. Our car was chosen because it was 2.5 seconds faster (on a 1 minute track!) and it felt like a match for Japanese tuned GT-Rs. For those of your that were there, during lunch, you saw both our BNR34 and the Vishnu EVO go back out on the track for no apparent reason right? Well that lunch time session was for Drift King to re-evaluate both cars.
Sure, Drift King also said that in Japan the tires must have 70% tread across the surface, but the USA BMI staff didn't even know this rule existed and therefore did not tell anybody about this. After Drift King was notified that the 70% rule was not told to anybody, our car was reconsidered for the touge battle and the lunch time re-evaluation happened.
As for our STi not making it, it is entirely true. The clutch went out Friday night and nobody was able to get me a twin plate until Weds morning (air shipped from Japan). So our back up was the BNR34 GT-R. Who wants to bring a stock bodied, full weight, 3480lb. GT-R to a super tight 1 lane course? Not me; the laws of physics dictates that a 2800lb car with a better power to weight ratio is going to be faster. With some suspension tweaking on the BNR34, I was just hoping for the best. This is the same car that won the 2005 Sport Compact Car "Ultimate Street Car Challenge" so it is a potent car. I just didn't know it was potent on a super tight, 1 lane kart track. We competed with the BNR34 at USCC on RA1's and we smoked the closest car on the road course portion (at the streets of willow) of the competition by 3 seconds there too. We didn't cheat there either. Besides, I think the competition was rather lucky as our STi is a full 2 seconds faster than our BNR34 at the streets of Willow (with the BNR34 on Hoosiers and the STi on Pirelli P Zero C's).
I'm sure that at the next American Touge they will not allow the Hankooks Z214s, Hoosiers A3/R3s, Kumho V710s. But let's get something straight: WE WEREN'T CHEATING. With a 2.5 second gap on a 1 minute course, we still stood a good chance of winning with RA1's, NT01's, Pilot Sport Cups, GSCSs, etc. It was unfortunate the rules weren't clear, but the BMI staff assured me that the rules will be crystal clear next time for a drama free event.
Thanks for your time,
Eric Hsu
XS Engineering, Inc."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric,
I for one consider you first and foremost a friend. Any allegations that XS cheated are 100% B.S. in my opinion.
I can also support your decision to run the Hankooks. With the limited information that you and I were both able to squeeze out of the event organizers prior to the event, it appeared that Hankooks, Kumhos and similar tires were fair game. As a fellow participant in what I believed was a motorsports "competition" for television, you and I both chose the best tires that we were led to believe would be acceptable under the rules. The fact that those rules suddenly changed once we were at the event and it was too late to do anything about it is B.S.
What is also B.S. is that the vote was taken *after* the cars had run. In fairness to you and your team, since many of the entrants showed up on tires that fell in the "gray area" the vote should have been taken before a single car ran. I guarantee you at that point there would have been a different show of hands.
Now, my beef is simple. If the rules suddenly change mid-event - whether to our against your team's advantage - they should have changed for everyone.
There is no sane reason that the Skyline - fastest car in its class - should run in the final showdown, while the fastest cars in other classes were disqualified under the bogus tire rule.
This was not your fault in the least - the fault is squarely with the organizers - but this is a simple point to understand. It is also why the event smells "rigged" to people that shelled out thousands of dollars and time and effort to attend.
I can guarantee you that the final showdown would have been more exciting from a true motorsports perspective with more closely matched cars. After all, while I am confident that the Skyline would have won regardless, it would have been a closer and more exciting competition pairing it against cars turning much faster lap times that the NSX, for example.
Hypothetically, if they had run my MR2 against your Skyline, I have no doubt in the world based on the lap times recorded that day that the Skyline would have won. Nonetheless, a shootout between cars with somewhat closer lap times would have been more honest and more true to the spirit of what we all understood the event to be - as opposed to what the producers believe sells programming.
By the same token, if the Skyline and all the other cars on "gray area" tires were banned, a run-off between the Vishnu Evo and the M3, for example, would have been more honest and more fun to watch than a 1:01 Skyline against a 1:07 NSX.
Anyway, I think you see my point. I hold you in the highest esteem and respect and admire you and your team's accomplishments in this event and others. However, I do not believe that the event was even close to being full disclosure for those involved.
Knowing what I know today, I still would have made an appearance but I can guarantee that Garrett and I would not have busted our asses squeezing every last ounce of power and suspension tuning out of the car, let alone rush delivering tires overnight, for an event in which the producers were just going to pretend to compete with my car, then turn around and rule it out.
-- DavidV
keep in mind that after we were chosen,(during lunch time) Tsuchiya drove the r34 and then my car right after. The best time he got was a 1:03 flat. They said the skyline got 1:01.7 right before that, and that is why they allowed the skyline to advance despite its questionable tires.
Last edited by Vishnu_Evo8; Dec 23, 2005 at 07:01 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
after we were chosen,(during lunch time) Tsuchiya drove the r34 and then my car right after one another. The best time he got was a 1:03 flat. They said the skyline got 1:01.7 right before that, and that is why they allowed the skyline to advance despite its questionable tires.
-- DavidV
god only knows.. but i am in total agreement.. teh skyline was VERY fast, i just wish we could have run similar tires so we could have seen how close it could have been..
Last edited by Vishnu_Evo8; Dec 23, 2005 at 05:46 PM.
